Page 5 of 36 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 889

Thread: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

  1. #101
    Member Fo11ower91's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    87
    Mood

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    If he improves his shooting he will be our third best player and should get a 8-12m per year salary.

  2. #102
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,556

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    On either Lance or Danny taking a discount...

    I remember posters here speculating about Roy taking a discount too. Then George Hill. And David West. And even Paul George. In the end, none of those guys signed a contract with a noticeable discount though. That's just not the way the NBA works. I mean, once in a while maybe it can happen, but it's definitely the exception and not the rule.

    But hey, maybe it will be different next year.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  4. #103
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    16,029

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    On either Lance or Danny taking a discount...

    I remember posters here speculating about Roy taking a discount too. Then George Hill. And David West. And even Paul George. In the end, none of those guys signed a contract with a noticeable discount though. That's just not the way the NBA works. I mean, once in a while maybe it can happen, but it's definitely the exception and not the rule.

    But hey, maybe it will be different next year.
    Danny has a lot of work ahead of him if he expects to avoid a deep discount. Lance, however, will be cashing in to the tune of 8M-9M...and if he improves further he may be cracking 10M.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  6. #104
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,554

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    On either Lance or Danny taking a discount...

    I remember posters here speculating about Roy taking a discount too. Then George Hill. And David West. And even Paul George. In the end, none of those guys signed a contract with a noticeable discount though. That's just not the way the NBA works. I mean, once in a while maybe it can happen, but it's definitely the exception and not the rule.

    But hey, maybe it will be different next year.
    It is hard to really know if a player took a discount because we don't know what other teams offer players. Obviously George, Hill, and Hibbert didn't take discounts, but I wouldn't really expect younger players to take one. I do remember, though, that it was the common perception that Danny took less on his last contract than he could have gotten. While Danny got something like $12 mil per, similar players were getting like $14 mil per on average.

  7. #105
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,835

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    We're not getting any discount from any player. We will pay full market value for whatever player(s) we keep.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:


  9. #106
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Danny has a lot of work ahead of him if he expects to avoid a deep discount. Lance, however, will be cashing in to the tune of 8M-9M...and if he improves further he may be cracking 10M.
    I'll be surprised if Danny gets anything over 7mil and if he does teams are going to offer similar contracts to the ones Bynum and Bogut got were he has to play X amount of games to make so much.

  10. #107
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,554

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We're not getting any discount from any player. We will pay full market value for whatever player(s) we keep.
    I am sure you know that for sure since you probably work for the Pacers and all.

  11. #108
    Star Platinum Hypnotiq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,979

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by FortyDaysThree View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If he improves his shooting he will be our third best player and should get a 8-12m per year salary.


    Lance would be hitting the lottery if he got 8 mil.


    this board still overrates lance to high heaven and back a million times over.
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hypnotiq For This Useful Post:


  13. #109
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    4,235

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    We're 2 games in and Lance has had 2 good games and he had some bad games in the preseason. Based off his play last year it's way to early to say his consistency issues are behind him and guess his salary. If he were to continue at this rate (unlikely) then he's gone because we won't be able to afford him. Right now the best measure of his value is his last season played and that would put him under 5 mil IMO. Once we get 20 games in we should have a better idea but in truth he could go any direction between now and the end of the season so his value is up in the air. I agree Granger will have no choice but to take a huge pay cut but his value is even more up in the air then Lance's value. I think if either or both players are getting more then 7 mil then they're gone. Roy will opt out the following year and net 20 mil if he continues to play just the way he is so I don't expect any relief while this core is together.

  14. #110
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    16,029

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote


    Lance would be hitting the lottery if he got 8 mil.


    this board still overrates lance to high heaven and back a million times over.
    Lance is top 2 on the entire team in points, FG%, rebounds AND assists. ASSISTS for goodness sakes...and he's not the PG who has less.

    I appreciate the doubters because I used to be one of them. But it's about time people recognize the young man's talent...because I know other teams are going to see it.

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  16. #111
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    4,235

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Lance is top 2 on the entire team in points, FG%, rebounds AND assists. ASSISTS for goodness sakes...and he's not the PG who has less.

    I appreciate the doubters because I used to be one of them. But it's about time people recognize the young man's talent...because I know other teams are going to see it.
    Everything you're saying is based on 2 games while playing extended minutes. If he has 2 bad games now he could be 6th or 7th on the team in some of those areas. 2 games is not a reasonable amount of time to say he's taken the next step.

  17. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Pacerized For This Useful Post:


  18. #112
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,218

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Everything you're saying is based on 2 games while playing extended minutes. If he has 2 bad games now he could be 6th or 7th on the team in some of those areas. 2 games is not a reasonable amount of time to say he's taken the next step.
    Summer league wasn't enough evidence. 20 points in the last game of the year wasn't enough evidence. Playing well the first few games as a starter last year wasn't enough evidence. Game 6 against the Knicks last year wasn't enough evidence.

    I can wait. I've been predicting Lance's success since summer league.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  19. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  20. #113
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,554

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Summer league wasn't enough evidence. 20 points in the last game of the year wasn't enough evidence. Playing well the first few games as a starter last year wasn't enough evidence. Game 6 against the Knicks last year wasn't enough evidence.

    I can wait. I've been predicting Lance's success since summer league.
    Summer league seriously?

    Anyways the point is, while there were a few games last season where he put up great stats he was never able to consistently come close to even putting up half as good statistics. Lots of players put up 20+ points games one or twice over the course of an NBA season, doesn't mean they are poised to break out. While Lance has started strong he needs to keep it up for more than 2 games to prove he is able to consistently put up high numbers. Right now the total amount of evidence is extremely small, come back in 10 games when we have a decent sample size.

  21. #114
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,835

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I am sure you know that for sure since you probably work for the Pacers and all.
    No, but I am familiar with the history of Larry Bird and free agents with us.

  22. #115
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,554

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No, but I am familiar with the history of Larry Bird and free agents with us.
    Yes, but nothing is certain. Being on the outside, nothing is completely known. You only know what has been publicly revealed to you, which is a very limited amount. Granted Hibbert and George didn't take a discount, as they got max, we know very little about signing our other players. We don't know what other teams were offering Hill, West, Copeland, Ian, and Watson. All we know is what we signed them for. Like I pointed out, it was commonly accepted by most everyone that Granger could have gotten more on his last contract than he did when he signed it. While we can say it is not likely we will get a discount, we cannot say for sure as an outsider looking in.

  23. #116
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    16,029

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Summer league seriously?

    Anyways the point is, while there were a few games last season where he put up great stats he was never able to consistently come close to even putting up half as good statistics. Lots of players put up 20+ points games one or twice over the course of an NBA season, doesn't mean they are poised to break out. While Lance has started strong he needs to keep it up for more than 2 games to prove he is able to consistently put up high numbers. Right now the total amount of evidence is extremely small, come back in 10 games when we have a decent sample size.
    What about the fact he had the second highest FG% of the starters last year? What about the fact he had the third best steals of all players on the team last year? What about the fact he had the third best assists on the team last year. A team that contended. All while he was a very young player on a contender?

    Now he really indeed looks even better.

    But the statistics...points...numbers are not really the best part. There are things about his game that just exist and cannot be denied. It's his confidence. His toughness. His ability to handle the ball and get to the rack. His ability to feed the post. His ability to drive and dish. His ability to run a fast break. Heck, he's even shown he can get up and throw it down. Then there is his ability to power through a typical guard...and get the And One.

    Yeh. That's right. The And One is part of this deal. But it's a lot more than that. Lance Stephenson has game. He was born ready and that boy has become a man...

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  25. #117
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    4,235

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Summer league wasn't enough evidence. 20 points in the last game of the year wasn't enough evidence. Playing well the first few games as a starter last year wasn't enough evidence. Game 6 against the Knicks last year wasn't enough evidence.

    I can wait. I've been predicting Lance's success since summer league.
    No but the 82 game regular season where he averaged 8.8 points and 3 rebounds was. Until he does more for the first 20 games of this season I'll reserve declaring he's taken the next. He should continue to get extended minutes for the next few games though which should help his numbers.

  26. #118
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    16,029

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No but the 82 game regular season where he averaged 8.8 points and 3 rebounds was. Until he does more for the first 20 games of this season I'll reserve declaring he's taken the next. He should continue to get extended minutes for the next few games though which should help his numbers.
    Well, actually had nearly 4 rebounds and that's ignoring the fact his only double figure rebounds came in the second half of the season. He also scored better than 20 in a game but only during the second half of the season. And like I said he had the second highest FG% of the starters. Higher than Hibbert. Higher than Hill. Higher than Paul George. The point is, the young man is clearly getting better. He made an enormous jump last year. He appears to be doing the same thing this year.

    One last thing. 8.8 points doesn't sound like much. I suppose it's not an indication of an effective scoring machine. But his game isn't about scoring as much as it's about the complete game. Defense is half the game. Getting other guys involved is huge. Putting pressure on the defense is huge. It's time to forget the Jim O'Brien stats that led to numbers for Murphy Dun and Granger. This team is a contender and the game is more than shooting the ball for big numbers and inefficient FG%...while playing weak D.

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  28. #119
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    42
    Posts
    25,577

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Lance is top 2 on the entire team in points, FG%, rebounds AND assists. ASSISTS for goodness sakes...and he's not the PG who has less.

    I appreciate the doubters because I used to be one of them. But it's about time people recognize the young man's talent...because I know other teams are going to see it.
    That's why I keep on going back to how important it is for the Pacers to be about $7 mil under the 2014-2015 LT. Every Team that is under the LT will be able to offer him the full MLE. There will be some Teams that are in rebuilding mode and under the Salary Cap enough to offer him more than the full MLE.

    I guarantee you that some Team will offer him the full MLE.....and worse...I can see some Team over pay him to the tune of $6 to 8 mil a year just because of his potential.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  29. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CableKC For This Useful Post:


  30. #120
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    42
    Posts
    25,577

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is hard to really know if a player took a discount because we don't know what other teams offer players. Obviously George, Hill, and Hibbert didn't take discounts, but I wouldn't really expect younger players to take one. I do remember, though, that it was the common perception that Danny took less on his last contract than he could have gotten. While Danny got something like $12 mil per, similar players were getting like $14 mil per on average.
    I don't think that Lance will give the Pacers a home town discount......he is paid a pitance when it comes to the level of production that he has provided over the last season ( as well as this season ). He has to ensure that he and his family is paid...so I don't blame him for not giving the Pacers a discount...I want him to get paid.

    What I am hoping for is that if $$$ is equal...that he chooses the Pacers ( since he is a UFA ) over any other Team. That ( to me ) is the only real advantage that the Pacers have over any other team.....any possible loyalty and respect that Lance may have to Bird.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  31. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CableKC For This Useful Post:


  32. #121
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,835

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What about the fact he had the second highest FG% of the starters last year? What about the fact he had the third best steals of all players on the team last year? What about the fact he had the third best assists on the team last year. A team that contended. All while he was a very young player on a contender?

    Now he really indeed looks even better.

    But the statistics...points...numbers are not really the best part. There are things about his game that just exist and cannot be denied. It's his confidence. His toughness. His ability to handle the ball and get to the rack. His ability to feed the post. His ability to drive and dish. His ability to run a fast break. Heck, he's even shown he can get up and throw it down. Then there is his ability to power through a typical guard...and get the And One.

    Yeh. That's right. The And One is part of this deal. But it's a lot more than that. Lance Stephenson has game. He was born ready and that boy has become a man...
    With that talent level how did LeBron and Wade manage to upset Lance and friends? We should be holding GOAT discussions, not discussing whether or not he should start. It's so clear now.

    EDIT// I mean, I know you're high on him but come on. If Lance was out injured right now we would still be a contending team. He is very good but he's not to the point where he's vital for the team's success. Everything you posted, with just a slight changing of the ranks on the teams, can also refer to George Hill. He's got gaudy numbers right now, but he didn't play particularly well against the Pelicans. If he can keep up this production all year and into the playoffs he will very much be a vital piece of our team. But right now we're talking about the best two game sequence of his career.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 11-02-2013 at 01:20 AM.

  33. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:


  34. #122
    Away From Sharp Objects Gremz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    77
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    If you're correct, I'd love to see some kind of deal where we can net Carter and Marion from Dallas for either a Granger or Hill based deal.

  35. #123
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,554

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think that Lance will give the Pacers a home town discount......he is paid a pitance when it comes to the level of production that he has provided over the last season ( as well as this season ). He has to ensure that he and his family is paid...so I don't blame him for not giving the Pacers a discount...I want him to get paid.

    What I am hoping for is that if $$$ is equal...that he chooses the Pacers ( since he is a UFA ) over any other Team. That ( to me ) is the only real advantage that the Pacers have over any other team.....any possible loyalty and respect that Lance may have to Bird.
    I don't expect him to either. I personally don't really care if he gets paid or not though. Either way with an NBA salary by the end of his contract he will have made more money than I am likely to make in my life.

  36. #124
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    16,029

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    With that talent level how did LeBron and Wade manage to upset Lance and friends? We should be holding GOAT discussions, not discussing whether or not he should start. It's so clear now.

    EDIT// I mean, I know you're high on him but come on. If Lance was out injured right now we would still be a contending team. He is very good but he's not to the point where he's vital for the team's success. Everything you posted, with just a slight changing of the ranks on the teams, can also refer to George Hill. He's got gaudy numbers right now, but he didn't play particularly well against the Pelicans. If he can keep up this production all year and into the playoffs he will very much be a vital piece of our team. But right now we're talking about the best two game sequence of his career.
    No, you can't say the same about George, as much as I like him. George does not power though other guards. He does not feed the post as easily. He does not go to the rack like that and he does not rebound anything close. He also doesn't even handle the basketball better even though he's supposed to be the PG. Again, I like George Hill but he does not have as much talent. He had the benefit of playing in San Antonio and has experience on Lance. While George Hill is a very good player, he simply doesn't have the potential that Lance Stephenson has and is now showing. That's right.

    The fact is, Lance wasn't born ready...but he's ready now. He had a rough background and quite frankly I don't think he's had great coaching. He's not been disciplined and it showed when he entered the league. But that is changing rapidly.

  37. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  38. #125
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    17,767

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Shot across the bow: Danny's next contract will be smaller than George Hill's current one. Bank on it.
    Unless DG comes back soon and plays some of the best ball of his career, a GM would have to be absolutely out of their mind to give him anything near what Hill is making (5 years $40 million).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •