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Thread: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

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    Default Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    IF Lance continues to demonstrate improved decision-making with the ball in his hands.

    IF Lance can adequately guard the position.

    IF Lance proves to be more consistent than last season.

    IF, and this is the biggest question mark to me, Lance shows more growth in regards to his maturity....

    I think I want him to be our starting point guard later on this season. I think FOR THIS TEAM and HOW THIS TEAM PLAYS OFFENSE, he could be a killer upgrade at that position.

    Of course, in this scenario, new questions and problems would present themselves now and during the summer... primarily regarding George Hill.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    IF Lance continues to demonstrate improved decision-making with the ball in his hands.

    IF Lance can adequately guard the position.

    IF Lance proves to be more consistent than last season.

    IF, and this is the biggest question mark to me, Lance shows more growth in regards to his maturity....

    I think I want him to be our starting point guard later on this season. I think FOR THIS TEAM and HOW THIS TEAM PLAYS OFFENSE, he could be a killer upgrade at that position.

    Of course, in this scenario, new questions and problems would present themselves now and during the summer... primarily regarding George Hill.

    IF he keeps playing like this we may have to move George Hill just to afford his salary!

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    I'm not sure it really raises any questions about GHill. He's a 37% career 3pt shooter, compared to Danny's 38%. I think him and Danny have similiar skill sets, in that role of the offense, the only real difference is just height.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm not sure it really raises any questions about GHill. He's a 37% career 3pt shooter, compared to Danny's 38%. I think him and Danny have similiar skill sets, in that role of the offense, the only real difference is just height.
    Yeah but the height difference matters. Danny has a few post moves and can guard the 3 and 4 positions. GHill can't do any of those things, so it's a valid question.

    Lance
    ???
    PG
    DWest
    Hibbert

    You could play PG at either the 2 or the 3. I could see GHill playing at the 2, but what are the consequences of that? Who guards the larger shooting guards in the league with that lineup?

    In any case those 4 IFs would need to be satisfied for quite a while, maybe half a season, before Vogel would consider making those types of changes. Team chemistry and all that.

    I actually think Lance looked great when he played with the bench, and we don't really have another player who can do what he does with that lineup, so I think Vogel will keep things this way for a while...

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    Yeah but the height difference matters. Danny has a few post moves and can guard the 3 and 4 positions. GHill can't do any of those things, so it's a valid question.
    Not really, because he can guard 2s just fine, allowing PG to guard the 3. If there is an oversized 2 out there, like say Joe Johnson, you just slide Lance over to them and you're right back in the same exact defensive position that you're in now. Or there's just the possibility of letting GHill stay on the opposing pg's and let lance stay defensively at the 2.

    Danny's post moves are a nice addition, but I don't think the starting lineup really needs any more post players. DWest/PG/Roy have that particular skill set covered. Danny's post game is much more suited for a bench role, where just Scola is the only option.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Their offensive positions really have nothing to do with who they will defend. If your starting guards are Hill and Stephenson, Hill is going to guard the point guard most nights regardless of which player is the "point guard" on offense.

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    Am I reading Pacers Digest?
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Their offensive positions really have nothing to do with who they will defend. If your starting guards are Hill and Stephenson, Hill is going to guard the point guard most nights regardless of which player is the "point guard" on offense.
    This is what I was thinking. I'm not sure that the defense comes into play here past the question "can Lance and Hill both defend starting guards"? Even then, I'm not sure it has an effect on where they each fit into the offense.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    No, I don't want to move Lance to the starting/main point guard position. if he is the backup, OK, if he at times plays what is more or less the lead ball handling position, OK. But as the point guard I don't think that is best

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No, I don't want to move Lance to the starting/main point guard position. if he is the backup, OK, if he at times plays what is more or less the lead ball handling position, OK. But as the point guard I don't think that is best
    I still would need to feel confident he can handle more complex situations where he has to make quick decisions from multiple options. Too early in the season to make that conclusion for me. One telling thing is going to be how Frank plays him - if Frank puts the ball in his hands to make those kind of decisions at all, it means something has changed for the better in his eyes.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    No thanks I like the starting unit the way it is with Hill and Lance starting.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    IF Lance continues to demonstrate improved decision-making with the ball in his hands.

    IF Lance can adequately guard the position.

    IF Lance proves to be more consistent than last season.

    IF, and this is the biggest question mark to me, Lance shows more growth in regards to his maturity....

    I think I want him to be our starting point guard later on this season. I think FOR THIS TEAM and HOW THIS TEAM PLAYS OFFENSE, he could be a killer upgrade at that position.

    Of course, in this scenario, new questions and problems would present themselves now and during the summer... primarily regarding George Hill.
    Holy Cow!

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    The Hill/Lance/PG/West/Hibbert starting lineup seems to be working pretty nicely the way it is. Lance will continue to get opportunities to control the ball as the year goes on. Hill had an off game and is far better than how he played last night.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    ^^ At times last year, Lance was pretty erratic. Let's see if he can string a couple of decent games together before committing to the whole thing. Yes - last nite was quite impressive, but he could toss up a nasty one tonite.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Holy Cow!
    Why is this stuff surprising to the Lance crowd? There were similiar statements of surprise in the post game thread.

    I won't speak for everyone, but I thought I've made it perfectly clear that the Danny vs Lance debate was really more geared towards Lance's role with the starters vs his role with the bench. I just disagree with a lot of the arguments against Danny, because most of them is just stuff flung at the wall hoping it sticks.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    ^^ At times last year, Lance was pretty erratic. Let's see if he can string a couple of decent games together before committing to the whole thing. Yes - last nite was quite impressive, but he could toss up a nasty one tonite.
    I doubt it'll be that much of a problem. I think he will fall somewhere between what he did last season and what he did last night. He'll be matched up against much stronger guards and will have an athletic rim protector to deal with tonight. I think the Pelicans are one of the tougher matchups for Lance.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Why is this stuff surprising to the Lance crowd?
    Speaking for myself, I have been somewhat ridiculed over the past couple of years for saying Lance should play point guard. Even a month ago, I was given a very hard time for that position, being pounded with the quote from Vogel that he could never see Lance playing point. So, yeah, I'm a little surprised, but pleasantly.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 10-30-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    I'd stay with the existing lineup for pretty much the same reasons I prefer Lance starting over DG - additional ball handling and passing. I don't think GH is a great passer or ball handler as a pg, but he's certainly better at both than DG. If you take GH out of the lineup and replace him with DG you end up in a similar situation against the pressure D they'll see in the playoffs. Paul is steadily improving his ball handling and Lance is improving his decision making, but I don't see them being in a position where I'd be willing to depend on only those two to advance the ball and get in an offensive set once the D clamps down in the playoffs. And IMO, putting DG in for either Lance or GH does that. Let Lance get more time with the ball and GH playing off, but I don't make a change this year. As others have said, the cap may force a decision soon - just not this year.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Speaking for myself, I have been someone ridiculed over the past couple of years for saying Lance should play point guard. Even a month ago, I was given a very hard time for that position, being pounded with the quote from Vogel that he could never see Lance playing point. So, yeah, I'm a little surprised, but pleasantly.
    I understand that aspect of it, as I'm right there with you. I've had that opinion of him from one of the very first games his rookie year, when he threw a brilliant bounce pass on a back door cut. I don't remember who it was against, or who caught the pass, but I could probably draw the play diagram right now on it.

    My opinion on who starts is based on that Vogel quote. I don't think he'll ever give Lance that much freedom with the starters though. It's much easier to rein back in as a bench player, when mistakes start getting compounded.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    I like the lineup the way it is. I think Lance will be kind of a hybrid with the bench unit and the starting unit. Bench he'll play point some when they are pushing the ball, but in half court sets, he'll be the two guard. I don't think he should be the starting point guard. Hill brings a lot to this team that's not really appreciated. Him and West are two veterans that calm down Roy, Paul, and Lance.


    @Pacers24Colts12

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    As I said in the other thread, George Hill isn't the problem. He plays perfectly fine with Lance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Staverman View Post
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    IF he keeps playing like this we may have to move George Hill just to afford his salary!
    Possibly. But IMO we're better off jettisoning lesser parts like Mahinmi, Copeland, and even Scola. Yes, it may cost picks, etc, to get rid of Mahinmi or Copeland's contracts. Hill is an important part of the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Their offensive positions really have nothing to do with who they will defend. If your starting guards are Hill and Stephenson, Hill is going to guard the point guard most nights regardless of which player is the "point guard" on offense.
    This.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    If it ain't broke don't fix it. Maybe somewhere down the line this happens, but I personally still don't feel Lance as a true PG. If his game continues to improve, I think he makes a hell of SG honestly. I do think - and I vaguely recall seeing this proposed elsewhere - that the future of the team is PG, Roy & Lance. That's the long-term core. Unless Lance crashes and burns I can't imagine us not retaining him.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Why can't we just keep using him the way we are lol. It seems to be working out great for his career and the team.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Why can't we just keep using him the way we are lol. It seems to be working out great for his career and the team.
    Actually, he basically played point guard for the second unit last night. In fact, it was about as near to that "Ginobli" situation as you could ask. I'm good with it, as long as he always finishes.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    As a charter member of the "Get Rid of the Knucklehead Now - Born Ready Haters Association", I am amazed at what I am about to type.

    Larry Bird was right after all to want to try Lance at the point when he drafted him. Imagine that, Larry was right LOLOLOL! I never would have dreamed that Lance had any chance to be anything but a scorer who liked to make flashy passes. I was wrong, and my reverence for Larry Bird and his vision continues to grow. In retrospect, I now see what various media reporters must have been seeing in practices in past seasons when they pretty much unanimously raved about what they saw. I also am almost able to see what Bird must have meant when he called Lance the most talented player on the Pacers roster.

    With his much improved shooting form (amazing what Billy Keller helped Lance achieve, but kudos to Lance for obviously putting in major work this summer!) and hopefully continuing significantly improved decision making we might have our version of Chauncey Billups, though even quicker and stronger!

    Please Lance, keep going the direction you are. You may be the final piece to the championship puzzle! Don't go "Bad Tinsley" on us.

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