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Thread: Granger out for three weeks

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Miles received ZERO opportunity for us because we had a complete big man rotation. Simply put, we didn't have any minutes available for him and that's why they didn't play.

    As far as rookies are concerned now. They can certainly play if there is a need for them. The Bulls needed Marquis Teague to play for them and he did. The Warriors needed Draymond Green and he played 79 games for them and even tried to take over a playoff game. The Mavs needed Jae Crowder and he was one of the positive surprises in an otherwise underwhelming season due to Dirk's injury. We need Orlando Johnson to produce and he did.

    There is not a rule anywhere that says that rookies cannot play. Sure, you can expect them to come in and be world beaters right off the gate but I believe that if the rookie is good enough then you could expect him to give you 5-10 MPG.

    Miles played 55 total minutes last season. I'm not saying that Vogel should have given a spot in the rotation, but he could have easily given Plumlee more minutes throughout the season if he wanted to. There were plenty of games that the Pacers won comfortably where putting Miles in wouldn't have hurt anything. I don't care personally because I don't think Miles is very good, but the idea that we just had zero minutes to spare throughout the season just isn't true.

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  3. #177

    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I don't know what's worse, three more weeks without Danny or hearing about it from vnzla. Just kidding! I know which one will be worse.

    LOL! Just remember vnzla wasn't the only one who predicted Granger wouldn't be starting the season!!! I dislike saying it, but I told you so.

    I'll say it again: Lance is the starter UNTIL Granger can "earn" back his starting spot! AND I MEAN EARN IT BACK!!!!!!!

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  5. #178

    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    We're fine w/o Granger. We were fine without Granger last year and the team is expected to have improved greatly over the offseason, between player development and the improved bench. Anyone who was seriously counting on him being a significant contributor was in lala land. Anything he gives the team is a bonus, like last year. And like last year the Pacers will be good with or without him.

    At least this should put to rest the ridiculous idea that Lance should be coming off the bench.
    With the the addition of Scola, Watson, & Hill, and the improvement of OJ and Lance, this team isn't going to falter w/o Granger. Granger isn't a make or break for the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Miles played 55 total minutes last season. I'm not saying that Vogel should have given a spot in the rotation, but he could have easily given Plumlee more minutes throughout the season if he wanted to. There were plenty of games that the Pacers won comfortably where putting Miles in wouldn't have hurt anything. I don't care personally because I don't think Miles is very good, but the idea that we just had zero minutes to spare throughout the season just isn't true.
    Miles didn't dress a lot of games, if he did he would have received more garbage minutes. The reason Miles didn't get a lot of minutes last year though is because he just wasn't good enough to merit more minutes last year. Not because Vogel has something against rookies.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    With the the addition of Scola, Watson, & Hill, and the improvement of OJ and Lance, this team isn't going to falter w/o Granger. Granger isn't a make or break for the Pacers.
    Switch Granger and Lance and the same holds true. It isn't about will we or will we not be good without one or the other, it is about how do you use them to make the team better as a whole.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    See, it's stuff like that. That's why people keep saying that you have an agenda and spread propaganda. This flu was proven by a fellow PD poster. Do you think that he was just trying to cover it up as well? Do you call him a liar?
    If that wasn't bad enough, the flu was prior to him starting to play for a few games in the spring, NOT prior to him being done for the year (that was later, when we were playing @DAL if I recall correctly).

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If he did it wasn't in the posts I responded to.
    My bad. BBall was indeed articulate on the continuity argument, but on the merits themselves of a healthy Danny or Lance, the articulate points came from the problem child who shall not be named nor quoted:

    Not just preseason, I'm my case I'm afraid of him jacking up shots like he used to while shooting a horrible percentage, many call it "slow start" and "Danny been Danny", I'm afraid of him messing up with the defensive advantage the starting unit has, his legs are not there so everybody has to cover for him, we saw an small sample two weeks ago, his defense was horrible(I know some disagree and think he is a lock down defender because Ron Artest told us that years ago).

    Another reason I don't want him in the starting unit is because the Pacers starting unit matches really well with Miami, Lance guards Dwade while PG guards Lebron, if you start Danny he will have to go against Wade and we all know what can happen there(unless some are in denial and think he can take on Lebron)
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  12. #183

    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Switch Granger and Lance and the same holds true. It isn't about will we or will we not be good without one or the other, it is about how do you use them to make the team better as a whole.
    You can't use someone who is constantly injured. And until Granger can get healthy, no one knows which way playing Granger and Lance will make the team better. What I do know is if Granger wants to start he needs to earn that starting position. I'm not an advocate of giving the starting position back to Granger just b/c he's healthy enough to play. IMO, he has to earn it back with his play.

    If by some chance Granger has a problem with injuries this season, and yet is given the starting nod over Lance, the constant fluxation in starting line ups is not beneficial to the starting group not to mention the possible chemistry issues of constant change in the starters. JMOAA

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You can't use someone who is constantly injured. And until Granger can get healthy, no one knows which way playing Granger and Lance will make the team better. What I do know is if Granger wants to start he needs to earn that starting position. I'm not an advocate of giving the starting position back to Granger just b/c he's healthy enough to play. IMO, he has to earn it back with his play.

    If by some chance Granger has a problem with injuries this season, and yet is given the starting nod over Lance, the constant fluxation in starting line ups is not beneficial to the starting group not to mention the possible chemistry issues of constant change in the starters. JMOAA
    By all accounts, that matter, he did earn the starting position already.

    I don't understand why people think there will be chemistry issues if Granger misses some time. You guys are acting as if Hill, West, George, and Hibbert will only be playing with Granger and then only play with Lance if Granger is out. That isn't how it works. These guys are playing together all of the time in practice and in games. No matter if Granger is playing or not those four won't be playing exclusively with Granger. They will also be spending time playing with Stephenson. They will probably spend some time playing with OJ and Solo or Cope too. Not to mention they played with Stephenson all last season. If you have players who are team focused, who communicate, and who like each other you don't need 82 games to build chemistry, especially when these players have spent 2 seasons playing on the same team. If you want to worry about chemistry worry about Watson, Scola, Hill, and Copeland, and how they play with our established players. You know the players who are knew and who have never played on this team before. Those are the players that need to build chemistry. With the starters you can plug in Granger or Lance and it will be fine. There won't be any loss of chemistry.

    Last year the Miami Heat only had 3 players start over 70 games (it wasn't the big 2 and tag-along), the Knicks 0, Nets 3, Bulls 2, Warriors 4, Memphis 4, Clippers 4, and the Spurs 1. I didn't look at all of the teams, but of the teams I looked at only the Pacers and Thunder had 5 players start over 70 games. I don't know about you, but the Spurs chemistry is kick ***, but they still survived to make it to the NBA Finals.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    http://instagram.com/p/gEY6IAmYav/

    here's the team coming out (notice granger in the wheel chair)

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    If Solo is good enough to start those first five crucial minutes of the game, then he's good enough to play reasonably heavy minutes. There's no separating the two. Find me any elite team in the NBA who starts a guy for 5 minutes in each half and then doesn't play him in any of the next 19 minutes.
    11-12 OKC: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2012.html

    Thabo Sefolosha started all the games that he appeared in (he missed 24 games due to injury, though) and he only played 21.8 MPG. Thabo's replacement in the starting unit was Daequan Cook who started in 22 of the 24 games that Thabo missed and played 17.4 MPG. The only time that Harden started was when both Thabo and Cook were injured. Still, Harden received the 3rd most PT behind only Durant and Westbrook.

    OKC reached the Finals in that year, by the way.

    10-11 Mavericks: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2011.html

    DeShawn Stevenson started 54 games. However, he only played 16.1 MPG. Jason Terry who started only 10 games played 31.3 MPG and was 3rd in minutes behind Dirk and Kidd.

    The 10-11 Mavs won the title, by the way.

    Last year's Knicks: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2013.html

    An assortment of players started at the wings for them. Kidd started 48 games and played 26.9 MPG. Ronnie Brewer 34 games and played 15.5 MPG. Prigioni started 18 games and played 16.2 MPG. Do you want to know who didn't start any game? JR Smith. He had the most minutes played behind Melo and Felton but he never started.

    The Knicks lost in the 2nd round to us as well know.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Miles played 55 total minutes last season. I'm not saying that Vogel should have given a spot in the rotation, but he could have easily given Plumlee more minutes throughout the season if he wanted to. There were plenty of games that the Pacers won comfortably where putting Miles in wouldn't have hurt anything. I don't care personally because I don't think Miles is very good, but the idea that we just had zero minutes to spare throughout the season just isn't true.
    Miles wasn't even in the line-up most of the time. He spent some time with the Mad Ants and Vogel preferred to use the last line-up slot to a wing rather than a big. In any case, we had a bigger issue in the wings than we had at Center so I can understand Vogel's decision.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Whatever it takes to get him healthy.
    Everybody ride the Scola train! WHOO WHOO

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by ThA HoyA View Post
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    http://instagram.com/p/gEY6IAmYav/

    here's the team coming out (notice granger in the wheel chair)
    They pranked Solo good... MG introduces the Pacers and out comes Solo leading the way.... with nobody behind him!

    Welcome to the League, rook!

    He still got a better introduction to the NBA than Oladipo did though.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    One week down, two to go.

    If the schedule holds up, Danny could be available in two weeks. Perhaps before the New York game on the 20th.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    One week down, two to go.

    If the schedule holds up, Danny could be available in two weeks. Perhaps before the New York game on the 20th.
    I think it is going to take half the season to find out what Danny level Danny can return to.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    One week down, two to go.

    If the schedule holds up, Danny could be available in two weeks. Perhaps before the New York game on the 20th.
    Yes, and he will be rusty as a nail that set outside over the winter. The real question is when (or perhaps IF) he will get in game shape and be 80% of his former self. January would be a good time to take that measurement.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Can't confirm where I read it (maybe in that Grantland artcle on Danny) but he thinks he will be available earlier than the 3-week timetable.
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Yes, and he will be rusty as a nail that set outside over the winter. The real question is when (or perhaps IF) he will get in game shape and be 80% of his former self. January would be a good time to take that measurement.
    I thought he was looking pretty good in the last two games before the calf injury.
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  32. #195
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Yes, and he will be rusty as a nail that set outside over the winter. The real question is when (or perhaps IF) he will get in game shape and be 80% of his former self. January would be a good time to take that measurement.
    And some of you couldn't be happier if it takes that long, right?

    By the way, he looked anything but rusty in the preseason game @CHI. I don't think it will take that long.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    And some of you couldn't be happier if it takes that long, right?

    By the way, he looked anything but rusty in the preseason game @CHI. I don't think it will take that long.
    Admittedly, I did not see the preseason games. I don't discount what you saw at all. At the same time, I greatly fear that he will play this season for awhile and go down at the wrong time. I simply don't want to risk it. If I KNEW or really believed he would be healthy I would be taking an entirely different approach. But I don't expect this to turn out well. Call me a skeptic from the Jermaine O'Neal era. So, if he's not going to be healthy, he will either hurt us at the end of the season or he will hurt us with home court. THAT is why I want him to be "gravy". The fact is, if he is healthy being the gravy...we might just get a ring this year. We already have a young and improving starting unit that was already stellar last year. Why break that and bring in the risks that come with Granger being a key piece?

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  36. #197
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Admittedly, I did not see the preseason games. I don't discount what you saw at all. At the same time, I greatly fear that he will play this season for awhile and go down at the wrong time. I simply don't want to risk it. If I KNEW or really believed he would be healthy I would be taking an entirely different approach. But I don't expect this to turn out well. Call me a skeptic from the Jermaine O'Neal era. So, if he's not going to be healthy, he will either hurt us at the end of the season or he will hurt us with home court. THAT is why I want him to be "gravy". The fact is, if he is healthy being the gravy...we might just get a ring this year. We already have a young and improving starting unit that was already stellar last year. Why break that and bring in the risks that come with Granger being a key piece?
    What's the difference between Granger being a "key piece" and Granger being "gravy?" Are you talking about his place in the rotation or his role on the court?

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Admittedly, I did not see the preseason games. I don't discount what you saw at all. At the same time, I greatly fear that he will play this season for awhile and go down at the wrong time. I simply don't want to risk it. If I KNEW or really believed he would be healthy I would be taking an entirely different approach. But I don't expect this to turn out well. Call me a skeptic from the Jermaine O'Neal era. So, if he's not going to be healthy, he will either hurt us at the end of the season or he will hurt us with home court. THAT is why I want him to be "gravy". The fact is, if he is healthy being the gravy...we might just get a ring this year. We already have a young and improving starting unit that was already stellar last year. Why break that and bring in the risks that come with Granger being a key piece?
    Who said that Granger is going to be a key piece? He is the definition of gravy as he is a guy that we could really use last year but he was unavailble. He is available now so why not use him?
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  40. #199
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    What's the difference between Granger being a "key piece" and Granger being "gravy?" Are you talking about his place in the rotation or his role on the court?
    Gravy is a guy who comes in, off the bench of course, to give the starters and finishers a break. Put up some quick points and upgrade that bench. It's more about the rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Who said that Granger is going to be a key piece? He is the definition of gravy as he is a guy that we could really use last year but he was unavailble. He is available now so why not use him?

    Agreed. I want him to play, say 20-25 minutes and put up points while the starters and finishers rest.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Agreed. I want him to play, say 20-25 minutes and put up points while the starters and finishers rest.
    That's the role I want him to play as well. I just believe that it is better for the team if he does that role as a starter since I don't think that he's going to be a good fit with the bench.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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