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Thread: Granger out for three weeks

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It's almost like some of you would be happier being right about Danny being done than you would be if he were a healthy contributor. And that's gross, if so.
    Don't count me in that group. I would like Danny to be 100% healthy and if he gets to 100% I would be fine with him starting. At 100%, he's better enough at what he does best to be a better fit with the starting unit. My issue is that I don't think he will ever get to 100% and I don't want to risk trying it.

    I believe...and now it has been proven btw...that starting him would disrupt the starting unit. Well, if he had been relied upon in the preseason to be the defacto starter, the Pacers would be scrambling to find his replacement right now.

    My fear is that this could happen later in the season...and I believe the risks are higher with him than other players. That tendon was recently operated on and while he may recuperate and play fine for awhile, I fear that tendon will build up scar tissue again and we may find him have inflammation at just the wrong time. Imagine that it's March or April and he's having issues again. If he had been coming off the bench it would be a loss but it would be much worse if he were the starter.

    Again, if I believed he was going to be 100%, not just 80% like David West was his first year back...I would support him starting. At best I believe he will be 80% and an 80% Granger isn't worth starting IMO. Not when Lance is probably at least that good and may even break out. I'm just not interested in a guy with jumpers knee making a run at a title....unless he comes off the bench.

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  3. #127
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    My opinion is we will be fine. We would be better with Granger, but we are still good without him. I think we need Granger to get past the Heat, but for now we are fine.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Don't count me in that group. I would like Danny to be 100% healthy and if he gets to 100% I would be fine with him starting. At 100%, he's better enough at what he does best to be a better fit with the starting unit. My issue is that I don't think he will ever get to 100% and I don't want to risk trying it.

    I believe...and now it has been proven btw...that starting him would disrupt the starting unit. Well, if he had been relied upon in the preseason to be the defacto starter, the Pacers would be scrambling to find his replacement right now.

    My fear is that this could happen later in the season...and I believe the risks are higher with him than other players. That tendon was recently operated on and while he may recuperate and play fine for awhile, I fear that tendon will build up scar tissue again and we may find him have inflammation at just the wrong time. Imagine that it's March or April and he's having issues again. If he had been coming off the bench it would be a loss but it would be much worse if he were the starter.

    Again, if I believed he was going to be 100%, not just 80% like David West was his first year back...I would support him starting. At best I believe he will be 80% and an 80% Granger isn't worth starting IMO. Not when Lance is probably at least that good and may even break out. I'm just not interested in a guy with jumpers knee making a run at a title....unless he comes off the bench.
    Even assuming he actually started more often than Lance in the preseason (he didn't), I don't see how it's been proven that would disrupt the starting unit. It seems pretty obvious that Vogel would simply plug Lance into the starting unit and we would go from there. I don't think we're going to be anything less than a top 5 team without Danny Granger playing. I have no problems with the roster as is

    I personally am not worried because we know Lance will do fine in the starting role. It is no different than any player in the NBA with a decent backup being lost to injury. It's not different just because people have been discussing it more in depth recently. I do now think that if he does in fact miss the three weeks that they should start with Danny off the bench in limited minutes when he comes back from his calf injury. Once he's capable of playing 20-25 minutes without issue I think they should introduce him to the starting lineup.

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  6. #129
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    My hope is that internal growth and the new bench make any Danny Granger contributions superfluous. However, more than that, I hope that Danny comes back and plays a role (supporting, most likely) on a championship squad. If this is the end of the road for Danny as a Pacer, and it certainly appears that way, I pray he gets to spend it on the court.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Look, I know you think it's his knee, but I'll just point this out. If Danny has a grade II strain, he is actually exactly right on for typical healing. Check it out.

    http://orthopedics.about.com/od/spra...calfstrain.htm


    • Grade II Calf Strain: Moderate discomfort with walking, and limited ability to perform activities, such as running and jumping; may have swelling and bruising associated. (Right now we've been told he can't run, so that is why I am assuming Grade II, perhaps it was originally grade I, but then he played on it and it escalated to grade II)


    Calf Strain Healing Time

    The length of time needed for healing a calf strain depends on the severity of the injury. A typical grade I calf strain will heal in 7 to 10 days, a grade II injury within about 4 to 6 weeks, and a grade III calf strain within about 3 months. The most common injury is a grade II calf strain that takes about 6 weeks for complete healing.

    Just saying....I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but just giving the facts on the injury. I know most of us hear strain and think about that time you pulled it reaching for something, but it's usually more severe than that. Especially if you do it during actual physical activity.


    in interview on the news, he said he could run up and down the court just fine, it just hurt a bit when he jumped...
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    in interview on the news, he said he could run up and down the court just fine, it just hurt a bit when he jumped...
    I think it's obvious Granger thinks he's closer to a return than the team does. In fact, I think it would be pretty common for players to be more optimistic about their return than team officals league-wide.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Even assuming he actually started more often than Lance in the preseason (he didn't), I don't see how it's been proven that would disrupt the starting unit. It seems pretty obvious that Vogel would simply plug Lance into the starting unit and we would go from there. I don't think we're going to be anything less than a top 5 team without Danny Granger playing. I have no problems with the roster as is
    Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either Granger is a significant upgrade or he's not.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Ahh man I hope this is just a minor strain. Just like I hoped that Danny's comeback last year was going to make us elite among the elite.

    And just because I chose to believe it isn't the best case scenario doesn't mean I want him injured so I am right.

    Hardly anyone reads my posts anyway so I am guessing I am not in that boat.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either Granger is a significant upgrade or he's not.
    Both ways? If Granger is injured and can't play, he can't be in the starting lineup. So you plug in Lance. I think we're a top 5 team with Granger sitting out injured. I think we are a better team with Lance starting and a healthy Granger playing off the bench. I think we are an even better team with a healthy Granger starting and Lance coming off of the bench. Keep in mind that I simply mean "healthy" and not "healthy and fully confident in his leg," which can take significantly more time. Also I am aware that we differ in the opinion of how healthy Granger must be to be an improvement.

    I thought I cleared that up in my 2nd paragraph of the post.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    I am still trying to figure out how it has been proven that Danny Granger disrupts the starting lineup other than the literal fact that he either can or cannot play depending on his health. I guess when someone says there's a disruption like this, it's usually because it really throws the rest of the team off. I think the other four are comfortable starting with either he or Lance.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I am still trying to figure out how it has been proven that Danny Granger disrupts the starting lineup other than the literal fact that he either can or cannot play depending on his health. I guess when someone says there's a disruption like this, it's usually because it really throws the rest of the team off. I think the other four are comfortable starting with either he or Lance.
    I would guess it's because we are on a board about competitive athletics. People would get shot down if they wanted player A to start over player B because they honestly just liked player A more. I think that's actually what is really going on with a lot of opinions on the board, and I'm not specifically singling out those who have wanted Lance to start all along on this point. There are some posters that went to great lengths to try and statistically invalidate the few positive parts of Tyler Hansbrough's game, for example.

    I think Danny showed enough in the preseason to convince most that he is still better than Lance and a better fit for the starting lineups. The only arguments to be made if you think along those lines revolve around his ability to get healthy and remain that way. I would guess if you were to tally the arguments against Danny based on his skill level and his injury status before and after he played in the preseason, there would be a marked shift from arguments involving his skill level to those about his injury status.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 10-28-2013 at 11:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I am still trying to figure out how it has been proven that Danny Granger disrupts the starting lineup other than the literal fact that he either can or cannot play depending on his health. I guess when someone says there's a disruption like this, it's usually because it really throws the rest of the team off. I think the other four are comfortable starting with either he or Lance.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I am still trying to figure out how it has been proven that Danny Granger disrupts the starting lineup other than the literal fact that he either can or cannot play depending on his health. I guess when someone says there's a disruption like this, it's usually because it really throws the rest of the team off. I think the other four are comfortable starting with either he or Lance.
    Quite frankly, the implication that Granger somehow disrupts the chemistry of this team in any way is among the most pathetic opinions that I have seen posted regarding this argument. Honestly, every time I see it posted or hinted at, that is probably what riles me the most, and it causes me, at least momentarily, to lose just a little more respect for the poster.

    The way I see it, if someone holds that opinion, they have gotten so hung up in the argument that they just aren't paying attention to all of the story lines that state otherwise, all of the history of the team from Granger's last healthy season, Granger's involvement with the team last season even though injured, an so forth.

    I mean, for Pete's sakes. What do folks think the strongest aspect af this team is? In case someone needs a massive clue, I'll provide the best hint I can. It's chemistry.

    EDIT:
    With this post, I'm done with the argument. Tonight is the first game. I agree with Peck. The season is beginning, it's time to heal and get on he SAME side. So, no matter who starts game 1 and no matter who starts game 82, my team is on the floor and I will support and defend them to my dying breath. Period.
    Last edited by beast23; 10-29-2013 at 08:14 AM.

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  21. #139
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    The only way the chemistry is messed up is if Danny is not 100% healthy and we wheel him out and are subjected to his sub-par self. I don't think the team suffered greatly when he was in a shooting slump in the 2011 season.

    It seems that Danny is well liked by everyone and there would be more risk of Scola and Watson messing with the chemistry IMO.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I am still trying to figure out how it has been proven that Danny Granger disrupts the starting lineup other than the literal fact that he either can or cannot play depending on his health. I guess when someone says there's a disruption like this, it's usually because it really throws the rest of the team off. I think the other four are comfortable starting with either he or Lance.
    The only thing I can think of is that it is because we lost the games where he started. Never mind that those were the early games of the preseason and in at least one of them the starters were great.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The only thing I can think of is that it is because we lost the games where he started. Never mind that those were the early games of the preseason and in at least one of them the starters were great.
    Even then he only started in a couple games, do it isn't like they were winning with Lance as a starter early on either.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The only thing I can think of is that it is because we lost the games where he started. Never mind that those were the early games of the preseason and in at least one of them the starters were great.
    Not just preseason, I'm my case I'm afraid of him jacking up shots like he used to while shooting a horrible percentage, many call it "slow start" and "Danny been Danny", I'm afraid of him messing up with the defensive advantage the starting unit has, his legs are not there so everybody has to cover for him, we saw an small sample two weeks ago, his defense was horrible(I know some disagree and think he is a lock down defender because Ron Artest told us that years ago).

    Another reason I don't want him in the starting unit is because the Pacers starting unit matches really well with Miami, Lance guards Dwade while PG guards Lebron, if you start Danny he will have to go against Wade and we all know what can happen there(unless some are in denial and think he can take on Lebron).

    Again I'm not sure why some of you are afraid of Lance starting is not like the Pacers lost in the first round of the playoffs with him starting, I would like to remind you that we were one win away to be in the finals with Lance as the starter why mess with that for the hell of messing with it?

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Not just preseason, I'm my case I'm afraid of him jacking up shots like he used to while shooting a horrible percentage, many call it "slow start" and "Danny been Danny", I'm afraid of him messing up with the defensive advantage the starting unit has, his legs are not there so everybody has to cover for him, we saw an small sample two weeks ago, his defense was horrible(I know some disagree and think he is a lock down defender because Ron Artest told us that years ago).

    Another reason I don't want him in the starting unit is because the Pacers starting unit matches really well with Miami, Lance guards Dwade while PG guards Lebron, if you start Danny he will have to go against Wade and we all know what can happen there(unless some are in denial and think he can take on Lebron).

    Again I'm not sure why some of you are afraid of Lance starting is not like the Pacers lost in the first round of the playoffs with him starting, I would like to remind you that we were one win away to be in the finals with Lance as the starter why mess with that for the hell of messing with it?
    I would I personally like the starting lineup both ways but have a preference for Granger in that lineup. It's something that Larry Bird, Vogel, and Lance have all echoed. If granger can't get healthy then it's already decided, though.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I would I personally like the starting lineup both ways but have a preference for Granger in that lineup. It's something that Larry Bird, Vogel, and Lance have all echoed. If granger can't get healthy then it's already decided, though.
    I was thinking about this last night, and about how funny it is that when Slick said he thought Lance should start it was trotted out like Jesus himself said it, but then Basketball Jesus say's it, and....crickets.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Grin, we're talking about all of these hypotheticals... but first things first:

    He needs to have a string of games during the regular season where he has some form of meaningful contribution.

    That will take 2-3 months, IMO.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    The only way the chemistry is messed up is if Danny is not 100% healthy and we wheel him out and are subjected to his sub-par self. I don't think the team suffered greatly when he was in a shooting slump in the 2011 season.

    It seems that Danny is well liked by everyone and there would be more risk of Scola and Watson messing with the chemistry IMO.
    The issue I'd see as the counter would be that if you think Danny is sliding as a player and think he's dealing with an injury that means he's never going to be All Star Danny Granger again, then inserting him into the starting lineup hurts the potential growth of last year's ECF starting lineup. Ideally, you want a team playing as one unit, a well oiled machine. The more games they can play together and learn each other's game until they are able to just play without thinking and can finish each other's sentences, the better.

    If you believe Granger will be in and out of the lineup and/or not bringing what another starter brings then you likely believe his insertion into the lineup, and in/out nature of injuries means the starting lineup we have at the end of the year won't be the group that could've played and developed together over the course of the year.

    If you believe Granger will soon be back to form and again be "All Star Granger" then you likely believe that he benefits the starting lineup to get him out there and gelling with the team ASAP for cohesiveness reasons at the end of the season.

    I don't think we're talking fights in the lockerroom when the conversation turns to 'chemistry' in this case. Instead it's about what gives the starting lineup the best chance to develop as a unit physically and mentally for the stretch room.

    I'm in the 'Start Lance' group because we went 7 games in the ECF with him in the starting unit. Our starting unit isn't why we lost. Don't fix what isn't broken. They should naturally get better because they have shown no signs of peaking. Add that to I haven't seen 'All Star Granger' in some time. He's older and has injury concerns. The 2nd unit could more handle a disruption in flow with a player limited in time. And an 80% Granger in the 2nd unit could still be an upgrade to the bench. I don't see it as an upgrade to the starting unit.

    And looking to the future, Lance stands a much better chance of being our future than Granger at this point. So we'd gain a year of starting unit development with Lance as a starter. Whereas with Granger it would be a blip in the road.

    But this assumes Granger is never going to be "All Star Granger" again.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I was thinking about this last night, and about how funny it is that when Slick said he thought Lance should start it was trotted out like Jesus himself said it, but then Basketball Jesus say's it, and....crickets.
    Hmm. Wonder why...

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Grin, we're talking about all of these hypotheticals... but first things first:

    He needs to have a string of games during the regular season where he has some form of meaningful contribution.

    That will take 2-3 months, IMO.
    So he needs about 3 weeks from now to get over a calf sprain... but you assume it will be 2-3 months before he has "some form of meaningful contribution?" Huh?

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Tonight the Pacers have slow played us all year. Danny Granger descends from the ceiling of the BLF like an angel coming down from the Heavens. When he lands, he takes off his warm up jacket, he has changed his number to 23 and boastfully declares he will lead the NBA in scoring and that the Pacers will go undefeated. While this speech takes place, Lance and Paul release a flock of white doves and David West preaches that all who believe in this team can and will be saved. Roy displays his beautiful verticality by reaching both hands to the heavens and telling everyone who is within ear shot that they better "recognize". Meanwhile, George Hill sits at the entrance tunnel eating grapes and making smoothies for everyone courtside using his new blender and Scola has set up a beautiful Argentinian themed spread for us all to feast on alongside our smoothies. CJ Watson and Chris Copeland openly tell us all of the Nets and Knicks secrets, while in Miami Derrick Rose and Lebron James have a heartfelt conversation at half court before their game and decide "That they'd both really just rather be sherpas in India." They get on a plane and leave for New Dehli that very night. They are never seen again until Lebron resurfaces 10 years later on the Pawtucket Red Sox under the assumed named of Richael Hordan. Rose is never officially heard from but many believe that he is the secret identity of new Chinese Superhero BullMan.

    Once Danny's speech is done, and everyone has had their fill of food and smoothies. The Pacers then take to the court, Granger scores 101 points on Oladipo, who declares that he will never be able to stop the new 23 and promptly retires, and then they both treat us all to a night of karaoke at the Fieldhouse.

    It is a good day.

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