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Thread: Granger out for three weeks

  1. #101

    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Call me crazy, but I'm a bit more skeptical about being sold the company line...
    Didn't they do the same thing last year?
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Y'all can argue about the injury all you want I'm waiting to see if anyone in the media will call out Vogel and the training staff for not doing their job when it comes to player minutes.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    Didn't they do the same thing last year?
    Yep he had the "flu" and then he was out for the season.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    It doesn't have to be Hill that steps up and receives the playing time. It could be OJ, we could play Cope at the 3 more, or maybe Rasul Butler gets some minutes. We have options and Vogel will put the player out there that will produce the best.

    I think the point that was trying to be made initially was that it wouldn't be too difficult for a player to be our 5th starter. Lance ended up being a starter because Gerald Green couldn't knock down wide open shots, stop turning the ball over, or play enough defense to compensate for his ineffectiveness offensively. Lance's production was pretty much the same as a starter or as the 6th man last year. The only big difference was his usage rate, which was much higher when he was our primary ball handler coming off the bench as opposed to the 5th option offensively as a starter. Nuntius (the original poster) believes that role would benefit Lance tremendously.
    Pretty much it seems to be coming down to those who think it is some kind of insult to be the 6th man, and those who want to put him in a situation where he is most likely to excel and help the team to the greatest extent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    We have no proof of anything with SHill because he hasn't played in real games. A purpose of a sports message board is for people to give predictions. I think that Gerald Green's benching shows that not just any guy can be plugged in and play within our defensive system.

    Solo is a late round rookie, and it's beyond rare for a late round rookie to start on one of the best teams in the NBA. Finally, we had a coach last year who gave our first round pick ZERO opportunity to prove anything. I'm not comparing Plumlee to Solo, but I think it's fair to say that our coach isn't going to let a rookie go out there and play unless they can play like a vet. Because of all of this, it's my prediction that we won't see much of Solo this year, and certainly won't see him anywhere near a starting role. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, and I will be glad to admit it because that would mean that the Pacers drafted a complete steal.
    Gerald Green wasn't benched for his defense, he was benched because of his offense and decision making. The starters + Green were the third most used line-up and had a better defensive rating than the starters + Stephenson (.96 vs .99). The thing is their offensive rating was ****, especially compared to the starters + Stephenson (.97 vs 1.12). It came down to +0.01 vs +0.13. If Green was as smart as Stephenson, in all likelihood he would have proven to be just as good in that starting spot as Stephenson did. What made Lance work well in last years line-up was that he didn't make mistakes. He didn't take many bad shots, or have a lot of lapses in judgement. He wasn't doing amazing stuff with the basketball, or asserting himself. Often when he did try to assert himself in the half court it failed. Where Lance did the vast majority of his damage was in the fast break, or when Prigioni was guarding him, not in the half court. Likewise this season the times when Lance is going to be most effective playing the way you want him to play is going to be with the back-ups who seem to prefer getting up the court faster, and where you have more Prigioni type defenders. Where he isn't going to be most effective is with the starters. With the starters most of his duties will be stand here and wait for an open 3, or when the defender gets lazy make a cut for an easy lay-up. It won't be, here is the ball now create. On the other hand that will be his duty with the bench.

    Considering all of that, it does make sense to maybe start a Solo or Olrando. Solo hasn't shown anything to suggest he is a poor decision maker, so far in the preseason he seems to be the complete opposite of Green. Instead of being a poor decision maker, and selfish, he is unselfish even when he shouldn't be, and will defer to the better player more times than not. Meanwhile he has looked excellent on D. Orlando, who would be my choice if Lance isn't starting, is more experienced, and is a much more versatile of a scorer (he also draws a lot of fouls 8.2% which is second highest among wings last season, only Paul was higher with 8.3%), although he still needs to prove his capability defensively but so far everything seems to indicate he is solid.

    Now I'm not a fan of starting Solo, partially because he is a rookie, but mostly because I don't believe in his offensive game yet, he'll get a chance to prove it coming off the bench until Granger comes back. I would CONSIDER starting Orlando, but he seems to be many times more effective when he is one of the main cogs of the offense. So again I think he would work best coming off the bench, I don't think most benches would be able to handle both Lance and him being aggressive and attacking the basket. So I am not sure what the right answer is, or who I would start.

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  6. #105
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Considering all of that, it does make sense to maybe start a Solo or Olrando. Solo hasn't shown anything to suggest he is a poor decision maker, so far in the preseason he seems to be the complete opposite of Green. Instead of being a poor decision maker, and selfish, he is unselfish even when he shouldn't be, and will defer to the better player more times than not. Meanwhile he has looked excellent on D. Orlando, who would be my choice if Lance isn't starting, is more experienced, and is a much more versatile of a scorer (he also draws a lot of fouls 8.2% which is second highest among wings last season, only Paul was higher with 8.3%), although he still needs to prove his capability defensively but so far everything seems to indicate he is solid.

    Now I'm not a fan of starting Solo, partially because he is a rookie, but mostly because I don't believe in his offensive game yet, he'll get a chance to prove it coming off the bench until Granger comes back. I would CONSIDER starting Orlando, but he seems to be many times more effective when he is one of the main cogs of the offense. So again I think he would work best coming off the bench, I don't think most benches would be able to handle both Lance and him being aggressive and attacking the basket. So I am not sure what the right answer is, or who I would start.
    Regarding starting Lance or not, this, for me, is the question: does the minus of starting Solo or Hill outweigh the positive of "freeing Lance" in the second unit? I think it could go either way, but I would like to see Lance in the second unit, playing a Ginobli, Jason Terry role.

    This is way different than the Granger/Lance discussion, as Lance will always be finishing. One other factor to consider is that Lance's gelling/chemistry with the starters is lessened by a few minutes each game, however he gelled with them all last year, and would play, I'd say, around 10 or 12 minutes per game with the starters under this scenario. I'd like to give it a shot.
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  8. #106
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Seriously? They were feeding +30mpg. Could have left it at 20 easily, as they were blow out losses. Danny left the 4th game against Dallas before half-time. Vogel fed him those minutes on an international travel schedule as well. Completely stupid of our coach. Easing Danny back into his minutes would have been the smart thing to do.
    Whatever decisions coach made surely had the full backing of the medical staff. Yes, he needed minutes - it's part of his rehab and everything was going just fine until the calf strain, which isn't necessarily a result of overuse. I honestly would have been surprised if he didn't tweak something after all this time off, whether he played 20 or 30 minutes a game.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    @CandaceDBuckner: Vogel says granger knows it's going to be a long process while recovering from major knee surgery. So do the #Pacers, so "we'll be alright."


    A long process? interesting....

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Pretty much it seems to be coming down to those who think it is some kind of insult to be the 6th man, and those who want to put him in a situation where he is most likely to excel and help the team to the greatest extent.

    Thank BasketballGod Lance doesn't look at it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by @MarkMontieth
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    Stephenson also said he was a little disappointed to find out he will start. Was looking forward to primary role among reserves.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    lance as the 5th starter is a good option but as the primary ball handler on the second unit will have a bigger impact, I don't know if some are confusing when people want lance in the second unit it's not to decrease his minutes but rather just come into the game at a different time... He will still get plenty of looks with the starting unit but this way it allows the team to have a true go to player in the second unit. He would also finish games as well.

    I know lance had more of an impact than just points but to compare lance as the 5th starter averaged 8.8 PPG to compare Tony Allen averaged 8.9 PPG. Lance has much more talent to give than to be the 5th starter that sits on the corner.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    of course Lance wants to be the 6th man this year and have all that freedom to be the man from the bench. Its a contract year. Dude wants to get paid. He won't bank that much being the 5th option in the starting unit.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  15. #111
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Lance will start, we will see GHill shooting more jumpers like the 2 guard he insists that he is and the Pacers will still be winning games despite the absence of Danny.

    I'll make a prediction... when/if Granger does return to the lineup this forum will start debating how his return will effect the chemistry of a team that is not used to playing with him anymore.

    Grangers days here are numbered, I really like him but we need to face what is becoming more and more obvious... this is his last season with the Pacers. Hopefully he gets healthy and gets some playing time before he and the Pacers franchise part ways.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    @CandaceDBuckner: Vogel says granger knows it's going to be a long process while recovering from major knee surgery. So do the #Pacers, so "we'll be alright."


    A long process? interesting....
    It's funny my doctor told me the same thing when I rehab my knee and my ankle!

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by FireTheCoach View Post
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    Grangers days here are numbered
    Who cares! It isn't about next year, it is about this year. He is here now, and can help now. Next year we will deal with when we get to next year. This team isn't rebuilding anymore, this team is one of the favorites to win it all. Thinking like a rebuilding team when you are competing for a championship gets you what OKC got last year. Instead of having a player who could step up and keep the team pushing towards a championship, they fell apart and still lost the guy they traded Harden for anyways. That isn't even 20/20 hindsight, that is just stupid trading away a better expiring for a worse expiring.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So the "minor injury" is so "minor" that he has to take about 4 weeks off to recover(26 days to be exact) interesting.....

    Yes....calf strains are usually minor, but if you come back too soon it will reoccur just as what happened with Danny. I went through this a few months ago. I had a calf strain and would take a week off and the pain would subside so I would start running again only to have it come back a couple days later. This happened about three times before I got smart and stayed off if it longer than a week. Three to four weeks sounds about right to me.

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  22. #115
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    It's funny my doctor told me the same thing when I rehab my knee and my ankle!
    Yeah, but remember it's because everyone on PD who thinks Danny will play thinks he will be 100% ready to go and be in MVP form.

    No one who doesn't believe his career is over has expressed the idea that he would be slow starting, or need to work his way through training camp, or have setbacks, or be a 3rd option starter. That's why anything that implies the healing process isn't complete is a complete vindication that all those people should just go play mud pies and let their betters tell them how the game is played and who is any good.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    It's almost like some of you would be happier being right about Danny being done than you would be if he were a healthy contributor. And that's gross, if so.

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  26. #117
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Knee rehab can take a long time. I got runner's knee sixteen months ago. Hard to walk long distance for the first 3-4 months. Once I started walking it was another three or so months before I could do A LITTLE running. The next 4-5 months was slowly increasing my running time as the pain would allow. I am finally able to get my full runs in the last couple of months, but even now there is still some discomfort from time to time and I have to start out very slow. This will end up taking probably two years to fully heal. Not fun.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Yeah, but remember it's because everyone on PD who thinks Danny will play thinks he will be 100% ready to go and be in MVP form.

    No one who doesn't believe his career is over has expressed the idea that he would be slow starting, or need to work his way through training camp, or have setbacks, or be a 3rd option starter. That's why anything that implies the healing process isn't complete is a complete vindication that all those people should just go play mud pies and let their betters tell them how the game is played and who is any good.
    98%,been the second option and be the starter to be exact.

    Edit: I almost forgot one of the funniest ones, the one were Danny is the "Pippen" to Paul George "Jordan" haha but yeah some people expectations were always "realistic".
    Last edited by vnzla81; 10-28-2013 at 02:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    I wish the writing on the wall also had the lotto numbers. Maybe we could donate it Herb and get him to go over the LT a little bit.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    It's funny my doctor told me the same thing when I rehab my knee and my ankle!
    I was been sarcastic to those that believe he looked ready in 2 preseason games and to those that think he can play 30+ minutes right away without a problem.

  31. #121

    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    9
    Edit: I almost forgot one of the funniest ones, the one were Danny is the "Pippen" to Paul George "Jordan" haha but yeah some people expectations were always "realistic".
    Pretty sure it's an analogy like PG was robin to granger's batman, but hey lets be real, english is pretty hard, not everyone can understand analogies or sarcasm.

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  33. #122
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    I was really excited to see Granger play again for the blue and gold in the regular season shortly. Major bummer.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    P.S. Also for the record this has nothing to do with one particular poster.
    I agree to disagree on this particular point.

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  37. #124
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I would remind you C-3PO's that last year with the knee it was 'out indefinitely' and then being coy with specifics and timetables, and that this is specifically his strained calf, three week projection, which isn't considered atypical, and both the team and Danny himself sure look and sound like this is not, in fact, a big deal. Y'all are just paranoid after last season's knee trouble. I don't blame being concerned, but try not to apply any razors to wrists just yet.
    Dammit...anybody got a band-aid?

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  39. #125
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    We're fine w/o Granger. We were fine without Granger last year and the team is expected to have improved greatly over the offseason, between player development and the improved bench. Anyone who was seriously counting on him being a significant contributor was in lala land. Anything he gives the team is a bonus, like last year. And like last year the Pacers will be good with or without him.

    At least this should put to rest the ridiculous idea that Lance should be coming off the bench.
    A big part of the reason the bench is expected to have improved greatly is due to Danny's return.

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