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Thread: Granger out for three weeks

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Exactly. I'm pushing back at the tactic of trying to devalue Danny to increase Lance's value, which is a theme that has turned from amusing to down right frustrating going back the last 2 months of this argument. Trying to use turnovers as an argument for Lance and against Danny, falls flat on it's face.
    I can't speak for every other poster, but I wasn't trying to use them against Danny. I was just making the point that even though Lance has increased ball handling duties this season, he is averaging the fewest turnovers of any starter. Small sample size, sure, but encouraging nonetheless.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I was just making the point that even though Lance has increased ball handling duties this season, he is averaging the fewest turnovers of any starter. Small sample size, sure, but encouraging nonetheless.
    And that's exactly why I want the ball in Lance's hands.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    And some of you couldn't be happier if it takes that long, right?

    By the way, he looked anything but rusty in the preseason game @CHI. I don't think it will take that long.
    I don't know if his short time in that game is enough to judge by. 16 minutes, 4-7 FG, 1 reb, 1 ast, 2 PF. That isn't a huge sampling compared to the earlier pre-season games where his shooting was quite a bit off. I would be more hopeful for performances like the Houston game, where his shooting was off, but he did other things: 5-13 FG, 9 Reb, 2 Ast, 2 Steals, 2 Blocks. To me, that game shows more hope even though he did not shoot well.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    I don't know if his short time in that game is enough to judge by. 16 minutes, 4-7 FG, 1 reb, 1 ast, 2 PF. That isn't a huge sampling compared to the earlier pre-season games where his shooting was quite a bit off. I would be more hopeful for performances like the Houston game, where his shooting was off, but he did other things: 5-13 FG, 9 Reb, 2 Ast, 2 Steals, 2 Blocks. To me, that game shows more hope even though he did not shoot well.
    I didn't even know what his stats were for either of those two games. I was looking to see how he moved and how comfortable I thought he looked. He looked very in rhythm with the starters @CHI and his movements seemed like pre-injury Danny to me.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    If he looked like pre injury DG(for one or two quarters) I guess pre injury DG was worse than I thought, my bad for thinking that he was way better than whatever we saw in preseason.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I didn't even know what his stats were for either of those two games. I was looking to see how he moved and how comfortable I thought he looked. He looked very in rhythm with the starters @CHI and his movements seemed like pre-injury Danny to me.
    You have the advantage on me. I did not get to view any of the pre-season games, so all I can go by is the stats. Just seeing that he garnered 9 rebounds and a couple blocks in the Houston game told me he had regained some of his athleticism and strength.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    You have the advantage on me. I did not get to view any of the pre-season games
    I'm starting to notice a trend here.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If he looked like pre injury DG(for one or two quarters) I guess pre injury DG was worse than I thought, my bad for thinking that he was way better than whatever we saw in preseason.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    Don't let your blinders get in the way of sound judgment here!
    Ha I'm not the one with the blinders here.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I'm starting to notice a trend here.
    Preseason?

    DRose was great in the preseason. Notice how DRose has been playing in the regular season? 14.3ppg, 26% from three, 5.7 turnovers. Yes, 5.7 freaking turnovers...and only 4.3 assists.

    Chicago's record? 1-2

    Think that's hurting their chances for home court. YOU BET IT IS...him coming back rusty like Granger would be.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Preseason?

    DRose was great in the preseason. Notice how DRose has been playing in the regular season? 14.3ppg, 26% from three, 5.7 turnovers. Yes, 5.7 freaking turnovers...and only 4.3 assists.

    Chicago's record? 1-2

    Think that's hurting their chances for home court. YOU BET IT IS...him coming back rusty like Granger would be.
    A freak of nature like Drose had all pre season but (one game) plus 3 regular season games to get rid of the "rust" and he still looks bad, some people expect DG to be pre injury DG in just 10 games because they say so

    Note that I'm not even talking about Drose already been cleared to play since last season while DG was cleared a month ago(more or less not going to argue about it).
    Last edited by vnzla81; 11-05-2013 at 07:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yeah, like Frank Vogel.


    Here is the link, if you want to pay for it or if you have a subscription, but the second sentence paints the picture.
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...tm_source=t.co


    So the choices are between Frank Vogel, or Billy Keller.
    I like Frank a whole lot. But you have to take some of his statements with a grain of salt. He is attempting to manage egos and keep chemistry together. So he spends a lot of time stroking and "saying the right thing". There is indeed a difference between the wing players. Look at DWade and LeBron. You don't guard them with the same type of player.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Preseason?

    DRose was great in the preseason. Notice how DRose has been playing in the regular season? 14.3ppg, 26% from three, 5.7 turnovers. Yes, 5.7 freaking turnovers...and only 4.3 assists.

    Chicago's record? 1-2

    Think that's hurting their chances for home court. YOU BET IT IS...him coming back rusty like Granger would be.
    Terrible comparison, for many reasons.

    1. The Bulls offense is built completely around Rose, the Pacers are not.
    2. Rose is 100% reliant on his athleticism, Granger is not.
    3. While Granger looked good moving around out there, Rose would go out and ice his knees.
    4. Different injuries, different players, how well Rose does has no bearing on how well Granger does.

    By the way, absolutely no one has said Granger wouldn't be rusty, no one single person. In fact, everyone has said he would be rusty. You know what, the only way to get rid of that rust is by playing. If you live in fear of rust, and don't play someone because they may be rusty, well they will never play ever again. Your logic in this situation is seriously jacked up. You act like playing Granger coming back is he worst thing ever.

    I would gladly lose 10 regular season games if it means we have a better team in the playoffs. The Bulls would gladly lose these early games if it means Rose gets a chance to knock off his rust, and gets back to being the kind of player he can be by the time the playoffs come around. Homecourt advantage is meaningless. If you have the better team you will win the series. Miami didn't beat us because they had homecourt, they beat us because they were the better team. I don't care what the stats say about homecourt because those stats are the equivalent of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The vast majority of the time the team with the better regular season record is the better team. The have a better record for a reason.

    Where that might not be true is in cases of injuries. For example last season, if it wasn't for Danny's injury we probably don't start with such a horrid record, and instead of the third seed we beat out the Knicks for the number two seed. Yeah, Rose may be costing the Bulls wins right now, and it may cost them homecourt, but you know what they are more likely to win in the playoffs by sucking right now as Rose works his way back into form than they are if they wait until they have homecourt wrapped up before Rose sees any playing time.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I would gladly lose 10 regular season games if it means we have a better team in the playoffs.
    Here is the root of it all. I don't want to lose home court. I don't think the Pacers advance without it.

    Granger shouldn't be relied upon, either early or late in this season...not when you can instead rely on Lance. You only have so many chances. Look at the Colts. They won it all after many years of futility in the playoffs...but only once. Look at Chicago right now. An injured player relied upon does impact the team. Perhaps not as much as Rose but it will still matter. It's too important that our key players are healthy both early and late in the season.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Originally Posted by Eleazar
    I would gladly lose 10 regular season games if it means we have a better team in the playoffs.
    Wow ........

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    A freak of nature like Drose had all pre season but one game plus 3 games to get rid of the rust and he is still not ready yet but some people expect DG to be pre injury DG in just 10 games :

    Note that I'm not even talking about Drose already been cleared to play since last season.
    I don't expect DG to look like pre-injury DG in 10 games. I recognize that it is going to be a process.

    However, there is a big difference between Rose who is tasked to play 33+ MPG out of the gate and do everything offensively with Granger who will only be tasked to play 30 MPG at most (and I'm guessing 25 MPG is a better estimate) and just provide spot up shooting and defense.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    I look forward to having Granger back in a week or two.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Here is the root of it all. I don't want to lose home court. I don't think the Pacers advance without it.

    Granger shouldn't be relied upon, either early or late in this season...not when you can instead rely on Lance. You only have so many chances. Look at the Colts. They won it all after many years of futility in the playoffs...but only once. Look at Chicago right now. An injured player relied upon does impact the team. Perhaps not as much as Rose but it will still matter. It's too important that our key players are healthy both early and late in the season.
    So you would rather not play Granger and hope Lance doesn't injure himself, than have both Granger and Lance play in case one of them injuries himself. Again just absolutely great logic there. Make an argument against relying on a single player then say you want to rely on a single player.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I like Frank a whole lot. But you have to take some of his statements with a grain of salt. He is attempting to manage egos and keep chemistry together. So he spends a lot of time stroking and "saying the right thing". There is indeed a difference between the wing players. Look at DWade and LeBron. You don't guard them with the same type of player.
    The Heat play a completely different type of basketball than we do. Their offensive sets have nothing to do with ours. The Heat are a PnR-heavy team and we are a screen-heavy power-post team. It's just a different kind of basketball.

    In our team there is no difference between SG and SF. When you see our team out there can you differentiate between who is playing SG and who is playing SF? If you can then answer the:

    When we play Solomon Hill and Orlando Johnson together who is the SG and who is the SF?

    When Lance is in the game with Orlando Johnson who is playing SG and who is playing SF?

    When Lance is in the game with Solomon Hill who is playing SG and who is playing SF?
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Look at DWade and LeBron. You don't guard them with the same type of player.
    Of course they're different. Paul and Danny are different. Paul and Lance are different. That's not what Frank is saying.

    Frank is saying that in the offensive system the Pacers run, there's no difference between the 2 and the 3. The wings are interchangeable. So if Danny and Paul are on the floor together, they're both playing "wing." One isn't the 3 and the other isn't the 2. Same thing if Lance and Danny are out there, or Lance and Paul. They all play the same position.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    The Heat play a completely different type of basketball than we do. Their offensive sets have nothing to do with ours. The Heat are a PnR-heavy team and we are a screen-heavy power-post team. It's just a different kind of basketball.

    In our team there is no difference between SG and SF. When you see our team out there can you differentiate between who is playing SG and who is playing SF? If you can then answer the:

    When we play Solomon Hill and Orlando Johnson together who is the SG and who is the SF?

    When Lance is in the game with Orlando Johnson who is playing SG and who is playing SF?

    When Lance is in the game with Solomon Hill who is playing SG and who is playing SF?
    Whoops. Looks like we both posted at the same time. I'd have have let you handle it.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Here is the root of it all. I don't want to lose home court. I don't think the Pacers advance without it.
    Well, I trust the team more than that. I believe that they can win away from Indiana. Because if our team is unable to advance if we don't have homecourt then we will never win a series against the Bulls. They have the homecourt advantage even when the game is in Indiana..
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I'm starting to notice a trend here.
    ?

    Did you think I was putting Granger down? I was only pointing out that his figures from one game gave me more hope than what Hicks noticed from a different game. I don't get the "trend" remark at all.
    Last edited by Tom White; 11-05-2013 at 07:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Of course they're different. Paul and Danny are different. Paul and Lance are different. That's not what Frank is saying.

    Frank is saying that in the offensive system the Pacers run, there's no difference between the 2 and the 3. The wings are interchangeable. So if Danny and Paul are on the floor together, they're both playing "wing." One isn't the 3 and the other isn't the 2. Same thing if Lance and Danny are out there, or Lance and Paul. They all play the same position.
    So, you are saying that it's only interchangeable on offense? Didn't catch that before now.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    So you would rather not play Granger and hope Lance doesn't injure himself, than have both Granger and Lance play in case one of them injuries himself. Again just absolutely great logic there. Make an argument against relying on a single player then say you want to rely on a single player.
    Nope. Let me help you understand. I don't want to rely on Granger. Sure, let him play minutes without the game on the line. Lots of minutes. Maybe 25 minutes if his calf, back and knee are all healthy at the same time. But don't put him in the game with the game on the line...

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