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Thread: Granger out for three weeks

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    We're fine w/o Granger. We were fine without Granger last year and the team is expected to have improved greatly over the offseason, between player development and the improved bench. Anyone who was seriously counting on him being a significant contributor was in lala land. Anything he gives the team is a bonus, like last year. And like last year the Pacers will be good with or without him.

    At least this should put to rest the ridiculous idea that Lance should be coming off the bench.
    This is where I stand as well. As much as I love watching him play, Danny is no longer an integral part of the team. I actually think losing C J Watson would be a bigger loss at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    The biggest impact from this that I possibly see, is bigger minutes early for PG. Those who were hoping he might slip out of All NBA radar and save us some dough, I don't think there's any chance of that happening now. I expect him to explode out of the gate.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Huh?
    I objected to you trying to use Gerald Green, SHill's status of a rookie as proof that SHill can't or won't do something. I've said this multiple times, about this discussion and about Danny's future health, you're free to have your opinion, but if you're going to use faulty logic, I'm going to point it out.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Thankfully these sorts of debates will be resolved very shortly. If it's the scheme that makes the players, then I fully expect to see Hill get quite a few minutes this season since he is young and obviously has the physical tools to excel. If he doesn't get a lot of minutes, then that will tell us that not just anyone can immediately be plugged into the system and produce to the standards of a team that is competing to be the best in the NBA.
    It doesn't have to be Hill that steps up and receives the playing time. It could be OJ, we could play Cope at the 3 more, or maybe Rasul Butler gets some minutes. We have options and Vogel will put the player out there that will produce the best.

    I think the point that was trying to be made initially was that it wouldn't be too difficult for a player to be our 5th starter. Lance ended up being a starter because Gerald Green couldn't knock down wide open shots, stop turning the ball over, or play enough defense to compensate for his ineffectiveness offensively. Lance's production was pretty much the same as a starter or as the 6th man last year. The only big difference was his usage rate, which was much higher when he was our primary ball handler coming off the bench as opposed to the 5th option offensively as a starter. Nuntius (the original poster) believes that role would benefit Lance tremendously.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I objected to you trying to use Gerald Green, SHill's status of a rookie as proof that SHill can't or won't do something.

    We have no proof of anything with SHill because he hasn't played in real games. A purpose of a sports message board is for people to give predictions. I think that Gerald Green's benching shows that not just any guy can be plugged in and play within our defensive system. Solo is a late round rookie, and it's beyond rare for a late round rookie to start on one of the best teams in the NBA. Finally, we had a coach last year who gave our first round pick ZERO opportunity to prove anything. I'm not comparing Plumlee to Solo, but I think it's fair to say that our coach isn't going to let a rookie go out there and play unless they can play like a vet. Because of all of this, it's my prediction that we won't see much of Solo this year, and certainly won't see him anywhere near a starting role. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, and I will be glad to admit it because that would mean that the Pacers drafted a complete steal.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I think that Gerald Green's benching shows that not just any guy can be plugged in and play within our defensive system. .
    And Lance being plugged in shows that it can be done! Except you think it doesn't, so we're left with you using one piece of evidence as support while dismissing another piece, all because the point you use backs up the outcome you predict.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And Lance being plugged in shows that it can be done! Except you think it doesn't, so we're left with you using one piece of evidence as support while dismissing another piece, all because the point you use backs up the outcome you predict.
    So I guess you feel comfortable in predicting that Solo will play big minutes this season and be a serious threat to Lance's starting job?

    These are sports predictions, not a scientific theorem. Find me a sports prediction that doesn't have holes or a counter debate. If everything was absolute, then we'd all become millionaires by betting on sports in Vegas.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 10-28-2013 at 12:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    So I guess you feel comfortable in predicting that Solo will play big minutes this season and be a serious threat to Lance's starting job?
    I thought I've made it perfectly clear I'm not predicting anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    These are sports predictions, not a scientific theorem. Find me a sports prediction that doesn't have holes or a counter debate? If everything was absolute, then we'd all become millionaires by betting on sports in Vegas.
    There's a difference between saying "I think it will rain" and saying "I think it will rain because I had a wet fart last night." Both predict the same exact things, but yet one is vastly different that the other. I understand thinking Solo might not fit in, but thinking he won't simply because Gerald Green didn't, is the equivalant to a wet fart.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    So the guy "tweaked" his back in training camp not letting him practice and now he is out for almost a month because of a leg injury after 3 games, yeah there is nothing to see here we should all worry about "injury prone" George Hill....

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Look, I know you think it's his knee, but I'll just point this out. If Danny has a grade II strain, he is actually exactly right on for typical healing. Check it out.

    http://orthopedics.about.com/od/spra...calfstrain.htm


    • Grade II Calf Strain: Moderate discomfort with walking, and limited ability to perform activities, such as running and jumping; may have swelling and bruising associated. (Right now we've been told he can't run, so that is why I am assuming Grade II, perhaps it was originally grade I, but then he played on it and it escalated to grade II)


    Calf Strain Healing Time

    The length of time needed for healing a calf strain depends on the severity of the injury. A typical grade I calf strain will heal in 7 to 10 days, a grade II injury within about 4 to 6 weeks, and a grade III calf strain within about 3 months. The most common injury is a grade II calf strain that takes about 6 weeks for complete healing.

    Just saying....I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but just giving the facts on the injury. I know most of us hear strain and think about that time you pulled it reaching for something, but it's usually more severe than that. Especially if you do it during actual physical activity.





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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So the guy "tweaked" his back in training camp not letting him practice and now he is out for almost a month because of a leg injury after 3 games, yeah there is nothing to see here we should all worry about "injury prone" George Hill....
    And that's my point. Instead of using two minor injuries as proof that Danny needs to readjust to the rigors of the NBA, it's proof that he never will. Faulty logic, presented as fact, 101.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I do think it could indirectly be from the injury though. As in he went from not playing to playing 30mpg. They didn't really give his body a chance to ease back into things, which can lead to such injuries.
    Right, it may have been more probably due to him having to have NOT played ball that long.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I understand everyone's concern who is concerned that this will be a lingering issue. I'm not trying to take away anyone's right to be concerned. Heck, I'm a bit concerned myself, but at the very least the recovery schedule they are putting out there is not out of line if it is the calf. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    Yep.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    What exactly do you want me to say?
    I don't want you to say anything in particular, but it seems like that's what you're saying without coming right out and saying it directly.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I thought I've made it perfectly clear I'm not predicting anything.



    There's a difference between saying "I think it will rain" and saying "I think it will rain because I had a wet fart last night." Both predict the same exact things, but yet one is vastly different that the other. I understand thinking Solo might not fit in, but thinking he won't simply because Gerald Green didn't, is the equivalant to a wet fart.
    I've listed multiple reasons that support why I think that Lance will start.

    1) Lance started last year, was successful at it, the team went to Game 7 of the ECF's with him playing an important role, and the other four starters now have a year's worth of experience playing with him.

    2) Late first round rookies rarely play huge minutes on elite teams like the Pacers, much less start for them. Also, we have a coach who clearly showed last year that he had no interest in letting Plumlee play some minutes and learn from mistakes, even in games where the Pacers were easily going to win. If you're a sloppy rookie, then Vogel doesn't have much use for you. I expect Solo to get more minutes than Plumlee, but in order for him to be a major rotational player, he's going to inevitably make mistakes. I don't see

    3) My only point about Gerlald Green was that he showed us that not just anyone can come in and play within our defensive system. Now, it's certainly a reasonable counter point to say that Lance shows that it CAN be done, and I agree with that. Like I said, no sports prediction is a 100% air tight argument that is invincible to opposing debate. But you've blown the Gerald Green thing out of proportion. I just used him as an abstract figure to make a point, and it was just a tiny part of my argument. Why would Vogel start Solo and go through the growing pains of him learning with the starting unit when Lance already has a year's worth of expierience? Sure, he allowed Lance to do it last year, but that's because we had no other choice. Now that we do have an experienced choice in Lance, I don't see him going with anyone else.

    No sports prediction is going to hold up against the scientific method, but I do feel as though my prediction is filled with reasonable enough evidence, and I'll gladly bet anyone on who plays more starters minutes between Lance and Solo.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 10-28-2013 at 12:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    This could all be a smokescreen to buy Danny more rehab time. If so, I don't have a problem with that.
    The team needs to get off to a fast start, and we already knew Danny would need a while to get his game
    going. This actually could be beneficial in the long run. Keep him out until he is completely comfortable,
    or until injury to another player makes his return neccessary.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I would remind you C-3PO's that last year with the knee it was 'out indefinitely' and then being coy with specifics and timetables, and that this is specifically his strained calf, three week projection, which isn't considered atypical, and both the team and Danny himself sure look and sound like this is not, in fact, a big deal. Y'all are just paranoid after last season's knee trouble. I don't blame being concerned, but try not to apply any razors to wrists just yet.
    The Pacers have a history recently of injuries that just linger, and linger, and linger. For example, please see Mike "DB" Dunleavy and Granger last year
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    So with the Danny injury how would you guys like to see the bench rotation unfold till he gets back?

    Me personally I'd like to see Lance 30-34 minutes, PG 36-38 minutes

    That leaves 14-18 minutes of backup SG which I'd like to see a Orlando get 10 of it and I'd like to see 4-8 minutes of a CJ Watson/George Hill line up with Hill playing the 2
    At the 3 spot I'd like to see all 10-12 minutes go to Copeland and forget the idea of him playing PF in the early part of the year just leave the big rotations to Mahinmi and Scola.

    That means no minutes for Solomon Hill but personally I just don't feel he's earned his minutes yet maybe at some point this year he should get a shot just don't feel it is now.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    This may not be the same injury. Be we all have seen older players who get hurt generate nagging injuries. Maybe its overcompensating or maybe the conditioning is harder on the body. You rehab and rehab while overlooking the maintaining of the rest of your body.

    It is a guess, and I could be wrong, but I think Danny will have more injuries like this. I predict a hip injury, or lower back strain. Maybe a high ankle sprain. The thing is my guess is not as far fetched as saying is going to come back to 2011. There is a pattern here. But some peeps don't see it.

    What is next?

    #~#~#~#~

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Danny interview abotu to go up from the Pacers. Says he expects to miss 6 to 7 games. I'll link once they throw it up.

    Also says he can run up and down now, but once he starts jumping feels a knot in his calf.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Based on what evidence, though?
    None... Just a feeling I have stemming from about 10 Years ago when another professional franchise in this city kind of said Edgerin James had a minor injury that was all but minor.
    Again, no evidence...

    Teams don't always have to be forthright with information...
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 10-28-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    This may not be the same injury. Be we all have seen older players who get hurt generate nagging injuries. Maybe its overcompensating or maybe the conditioning is harder on the body. You rehab and rehab while overlooking the maintaining of the rest of your body.

    It is a guess, and I could be wrong, but I think Danny will have more injuries like this. I predict a hip injury, or lower back strain. Maybe a high ankle sprain. The thing is my guess is not as far fetched as saying is going to come back to 2011. There is a pattern here. But some peeps don't see it.

    What is next?

    #~#~#~#~
    2 injuries and 2 1/2 games so far for this year(tweaked back and calf).

    Good post by the way.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    I really miss the days where we could all just agree to disagree and move on. I've been around Pacers message boards since 1994 and I've seen the ups and I've seen the downs and in the end it all balances out. However I will freely admit that this particular down is just depressing.

    For a fan base that suffered together from brawls to character issues to Jim O'Brien to lack of talent and to rebuilding and to now being finally poised to take a leap forward it's sad to be this fractured at a time when we should all be coming together to rejoice. For the first time in I don't know how long I've stepped away from posting because frankly it's just to contentious.

    It's very sad to me to be honest with you because this really should be a time to rejoice.

    P.S. Also for the record this has nothing to do with one particular poster.


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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Are we really just predicting injuries now?

    I predict Paul George will get hurt at some point. Roy Hibbert too. They will hurt their leg, arm, back, or head.

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    Default Re: Granger out for three weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I really miss the days where we could all just agree to disagree and move on. I've been around Pacers message boards since 1994 and I've seen the ups and I've seen the downs and in the end it all balances out. However I will freely admit that this particular down is just depressing.

    For a fan base that suffered together from brawls to character issues to Jim O'Brien to lack of talent and to rebuilding and to now being finally poised to take a leap forward it's sad to be this fractured at a time when we should all be coming together to rejoice. For the first time in I don't know how long I've stepped away from posting because frankly it's just to contentious.

    It's very sad to me to be honest with you because this really should be a time to rejoice.
    Someone give Peck a hug.

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