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Thread: From our host, Able.....

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default From our host, Able.....

    It got barried in one of the other threads but it was such a profound question that I think it deserves a thread of it's own.

    This is something I gave no thought to whatsoever, until he asked it but now he has got me thinking & I'll be honest I don't know the real answer.

    Why was Ron Artest given part of the co-captaincy & not Al Harrington?

    Is there really a lot more going on behind the scenes with Al that we don't know about? Is it just an attempt to coddle Artest? Is it because Ron shows more leadership?

    There are so many things to think about with this, I just am really curious.

    Does anybody have a clue?

    Oh, btw just so I don't dissapoint Btown.

    The Brad Miller trade sucked.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Because three's company, four's a crowd.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Ummmm - because he deserved it?
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Ummmm - because he deserved it?
    How so?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    I think they did it to show him how important he is to the team. He has been very good this year and they were rewarding him for that.


    Also he is for the most part the second best player on the team so that may have had something to do with it. I have never heard of a 6th man being made a captain.


    BTW Peck I know this is coming a little late but I love your avatar. All the german I know I learned from Hogans Hero's

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    I think Ron has been a model player and teammate this year. He showed he could overcome bad habits. He cares only about winning. He has been a peace-maker in many instances on the court. There aren't many who give 100% the percentage of the time he does.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  7. #7
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    I think Ron has been a model player and teammate this year. He showed he could overcome bad habits. He cares only about winning. He has been a peace-maker in many instances on the court. There aren't many who give 100% the percentage of the time he does.
    Ron has been benched once already by the coach for conduct detrimental to winning (or something like that).

    How can you equate that with being a leader?

    I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just asking if it really doesn't have more to do with Al.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    IMPD Officer MarionDeputy's Avatar
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    Default I think the writing is on the wall....and its been there...

    I really beleive the writing has been on the wall for a Harrington trade for a long time now. Al himself if the off-season was even saying he wouldn't be surprised if he was traded. I agree with several other posters on here. J.O. should be starting and playing power forward, we need a banging center who is an offensive threat for J.O. to become an inside out scoring threat. If you follow that logic that locks Al into competition for small forward because we all agree JO is the better fit at the power forward spot, not to mention the Pacer mngmt. has got him locked here as the marquee player for years to com. That leaves Al in competition against Artest, whose play at both ends is better than Al's. The Pacers are still weak at the point especially on the defensive end. Al is a star caliber player and should be starting on somebody's team, he should not be coming off the bench. In my opinion the best move the Pacers could make is trading him for either a potent Center or a high caliber guard. This isn't a slam on Al, I think he will be an All-Star someday, its just business! We don't need two All-Star power forwards!

    Edit: which is why I think Ron got the "Capo" tag and Al didn't. They are setting Ron up to be another franchise player and are waiting for the right opportunity to ship Al. I think Al knows it and expects it. Even though I have absolutely no proof of that at all. (pretty bad when you have to edit the post to explain the basic point of the discussion isnt it )
    "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

    --Jack Nicholson as Colonel Nathan Jessup in A Few Good Men

  9. #9
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    If it were directed at all toward Harrington - I think that would a huge display of pettiness.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  10. #10
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Well the question was somewhat rethoric, but ok:

    Al is not on the plotter for the coming years. It is as simple as that.

    JO and Ron are the core, Reggie is the honourable old man waiting to see his replacement grow into his role and will keep shooting the lights out till then (one or two more years) Freddie could well be that person, but so could another dark horse we don't know about yet.
    JB, unless he really comes out is a bust and will be ready to be traded either this summer or next Feb, if they decide to give him another chance the coming season, something I'm not really convinced of.

    Tins will be the PG of the future for this team, and yes I do think he will come along a lot more then we have yet seen, just hope they give him an extension early next season if possible, because IF he shows his talent in his contract year he will cost to much, we might have a glut in guards in the East, but the West has a shortage, those who doubt Tins come playoff time: in the first 4 games before he was injured he played:
    38 min FG: 0.643 3Pt .750 FT 0.500 Reb 3.5 Ast 9.250 St 1.00 Pt 11.750

    considering that such was a serious upgrade over the second half of the season, we need not worry.

    Leaves the C spot open, the C by committee is not an option in the longer run, Jeff can't in all reality be a starter, his energy is limited and Pollie is a nice guy who's coming along but not a full fledged starter and JO at C is simply costing us to much production from him and is dissalowing us to sploit his talents to the max.

    In that "starting" rotation is simply no room for Al, IF JB ever comes out then his competition for minutes will be even worse so in all reality Al is not a "staying" player.

    Ron is, or it is at least the intention of the P's management because even from the business end of matters, he is the real deal, a steal in monetary sense of the word as well seeing his salary, for a number of years to come, who would#ve ever believed it if they told you we would have the defensive player of the year, an All Star for that amount of money locked up?

    Al on the other hand (perhaps rightly so) feels he deserves more, more money, more minutes, more starts, perhaps a captaincy, perhaps an All Star election, the guy is young and wants the same JO has. it is that simple.

    That was perhaps one of the reasons they played it low-key, the announcement of Ron becoming a captain, but no matter how you look upon it, Al will not be happy about it.

    Al's not showing in the game Tuesday was perhaps due to rust, but as far as I understood from Slick he was simply not going at it, and not defending as well, which is not the first time he said something like that.

    Yes there is more to Al and the P's then we know, think or can fathom, let's just hope it doesn't ruin our second half

    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  11. #11
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Good post. Hope it doesn't come to pass that this is true.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  12. #12

    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Al on the other hand (perhaps rightly so) feels he deserves more, more money, more minutes, more starts, perhaps a captaincy, perhaps an All Star election, the guy is young and wants the same JO has. it is that simple.

    That was perhaps one of the reasons they played it low-key, the announcement of Ron becoming a captain, but no matter how you look upon it, Al will not be happy about it.

    Al's not showing in the game Tuesday was perhaps due to rust, but as far as I understood from Slick he was simply not going at it, and not defending as well, which is not the first time he said something like that.

    Yes there is more to Al and the P's then we know, think or can fathom, let's just hope it doesn't ruin our second half

    How are you privy to what Al thinks and feels? Are you saying that the Pacers down played the captiancy to spar Al's feelings or simply just not tell Al? How do you know that there is more going on than there is?

    You can knock his play, suggest that we need a different part than what Al gives but why the conspiricy theories and wild speculation on the player's character?
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  13. #13
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    I think it is as simple as this. Artest is a better player than Harrington.

    If Reggie retires and the Pacers want to keep three captains and AL is still here then I would assume AL will be named the third cap't

  14. #14
    Tim
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Al doesn't start, captains are usually starters.

    Why make it another opportunity to view Al in a negative light?

    The kid can't even get a day off from being a whipping boy.

  15. #15
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    SOrry, did not mean to kick the man lying down.

    This was NOT an "anti" Al statement, no way, I respect the guy, he has talent and the fact that he has no-show days makes him even human.

    I can not see into his brain, just read what he says in interviews and what is confirmed by others from speaking with him.

    On the other hand, I'm not an idiot, I don't follow the leader and sometimes draw conclusions that are neigh on correct.

    I never even insinuated he should start, he asked / demanded it.
    He has been here longer then Ron, handpicked talent and so on, friend of JO? (if that is still the case) and yet he does not make it to Cap and I know he doesn't start but still.

    I was not trying to kick Al, or insult him, I was just concluding that he has limited reasons to stay here at the end of the year if starter and perhaps All Star is a goal he has set himself, which would be the right goal for every NBA player, whether he gets there or not, because on this team baring great surprises he will not be a starter for the next 4 years.

    FOR AL it would be better to move on for all those same reasons that it would be better for the P's to trade him.
    He gets a starting job with all the benefits that go with it and we can get ourselves a good C, because that is the very least value Al has.

    If he does not get a trade then I fear he might become an unhappy camper and that would not be good for chemistry.

    Reasonable thoughts, very simple and mathematically sane.

    Please do not think I have something against Al, I don't, no matter how much I can biotch when he doesn't show like against NO, he remains a very fine player and a great talent. Unfortunately talents like that are not happy playing second fiddle to long otherwise this team with him as 6th man and a decent C would be a perennial finalist the next 10 years.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  16. #16
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Pacerman, I would appreciate it if you could discuss a matter with the same courteous behaviour that I show you, I understand by now you are a big Al fan, such is your right, but that does not give you the right to be rude to me.
    The statements I made are easily verified on Pacers.com or this board.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  17. #17

    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Able, its OK.

    I think that your basic premise--that Al and the Pacers have to evaluate whether or not Indiana is the best place for him--is correct.

    However, one thing I don't like is when fans attribute character flaws to bad play or players they think should be traded for different parts. It sometimes seems to me that people can't be content with disliking a player's game but they feel that they need to also to make that player out to be a bad person as well.

    By the way I hate the idea of a Dampier, Speedy trade. If we trade Al I want a starting SG.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  18. #18
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: From our host, Able.....

    Able, its OK.

    I think that your basic premise--that Al and the Pacers have to evaluate whether or not Indiana is the best place for him--is correct.

    However, one thing I don't like is when fans attribute character flaws to bad play or players they think should be traded for different parts. It sometimes seems to me that people can't be content with disliking a player's game but they feel that they need to also to make that player out to be a bad person as well.

    By the way I hate the idea of a Dampier, Speedy trade. If we trade Al I want a starting SG.
    I would never consider attributing charachter flaws to any person, let alone one I do not know personally very well.
    The "flaws" I described are common human feelings, most of us are not estranged from and that are not flaws, they are emotions, pride, self-esteem and all those things you NEED to make it to the top in anything you do.

    I would be seriously worried if Al did not have the drive to be the best, to be an All Star to be Captain, to be #1 on a team, because in that case it would be a waste of talent and that would be really sad.

    Indeed the evaluation is the basic premise, Al has to ask himself if he can agree on the amount of success he can have here where starting will be a hard found commodity.

    As for wanting a SG, I'm in doubt on that, I think we "might" have that but I am almost sure we do not have the "Big Body" inside to make the most of our PF's and SF's, which is sad.
    Let me put it this way: there is more chance that a "shooter" arises from the ranks then a "C".

    And please, it was sad Miller left, it's called economics, it was DW job to stay under the lux-tax and he did that job.
    I don't like it either, but have to live with it and that's besides the fact that I'm not so sure Brad would be (have been) the long term solution to that problem at C, he seems to be doing a lot better as PF atm.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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