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Thread: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

  1. #51

    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    I don't know whose more obnoxious, Rose or LeBron.

    Rose has...
    1. Complained that the Pacers celebrated too much after a win, when he has Joakim Noah on his team
    2. Complained that he literally is the only star player that doesn't get a lot of calls. First of all, I know all star players get calls but that is something you just should not even mention as a star player. Second of all I am sure the NBA is not singling out the star player from the big market Chicago Bulls.
    3. He was cleared to play for 2-3 months and could have helped the Bulls in a possible playoff run but he decided to be selfish and not play.
    4. His cousin took his ACT for him so he could get into Memphis

    Rose is an absolute idiot, and you can tell he is an idiot just by the way he interviews.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
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    I don't know whose more obnoxious, Rose or LeBron.

    Rose has...
    1. Complained that the Pacers celebrated too much after a win, when he has Joakim Noah on his team
    2. Complained that he literally is the only star player that doesn't get a lot of calls. First of all, I know all star players get calls but that is something you just should not even mention as a star player. Second of all I am sure the NBA is not singling out the star player from the big market Chicago Bulls.
    3. He was cleared to play for 2-3 months and could have helped the Bulls in a possible playoff run but he decided to be selfish and not play.
    4. His cousin took his ACT for him so he could get into Memphis

    Rose is an absolute idiot, and you can tell he is an idiot just by the way he interviews.

    Lebron comes across as very intelligent when he talks. Rose OTOH..........

    King has the hardware, Rose doesn't. Rose acts like he's a back to back champ every time he opens his mouth though.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Lebron comes across as very intelligent when he talks. Rose OTOH..........

    King has the hardware, Rose doesn't. Rose acts like he's a back to back champ every time he opens his mouth though.
    The Bulls don't match up well with Miami either. LeBron has already shown that he can take Rose out of his game and that basically destroys their chances. I am sure we will see Paul George guard Rose in the future and we might see the tide turn there.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    I'll always consider the Bulls a rival. **** them, **** their management, **** their fans, **** everything about them.







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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The Bulls don't match up well with Miami either. LeBron has already shown that he can take Rose out of his game and that basically destroys their chances. I am sure we will see Paul George guard Rose in the future and we might see the tide turn there.
    Yeah, but we probably won't see that until the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    IMO, two teams aren't true rivals unless both teams have knocked each other out of the playoffs. That's what makes the Pacers vs. Knicks rivalry so great. Even though Reggie Miller, Smits, Ewing, and Starks are long gone, the rivalry between the two teams lived on because both teams had knocked each other out of the playoffs.

    The Bulls and Heat might be Division and Regular Season rivals respectively but they won't be true rivals until the Pacers can defeat them in the playoffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    IMO, two teams aren't true rivals unless both teams have knocked each other out of the playoffs. That's what makes the Pacers vs. Knicks rivalry so great. Even though Reggie Miller, Smits, Ewing, and Starks are long gone, the rivalry between the two teams lived on because both teams had knocked each other out of the playoffs.

    The Bulls and Heat might be Division and Regular Season rivals respectively but they won't be true rivals until the Pacers can defeat them in the playoffs.
    Re-posted from other thread for fun:

    Here is a simple litmus test to see if the "Both teams have to win in playoffs to be a rivalry" theory holds up:

    We all clearly agree that Colts-Pats is a rivalry. In fact, it is one of the defining rivalries of the past 15 years. Do you remember watching any playoff games during the Colts-Pats rivalry? Because under this "must win a playoff game" definition, you are mistaken. You didn't. There were zero playoff games in the Colts-Pats rivalry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colts–Patriots_rivalry

    Colts-Pats met in the playoffs three times in the Manning-Brady era. Pats won the first two, Colts won the third. They never met again in the postseason when the rivalry officially "started". In fact, under this definition there were only four games in the entire Colts-Pats rivalry, all of them in the regular season - and Tom Brady didn't even play in one of those 4 games. Is that the Colts-Pats rivalry you remember? Or are rivalries formed over more than just mutual defeats in the playoffs?

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Meanwhile, Rose has 0 championships. I like Rose, but the dude is such a narcissist mixed with delusions of grandeur.

    Pacers are a rival since the the Bulls and Pacers pose the biggest threat to Miami.
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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Re-posted from other thread for fun:

    Here is a simple litmus test to see if the "Both teams have to win in playoffs to be a rivalry" theory holds up:

    We all clearly agree that Colts-Pats is a rivalry. In fact, it is one of the defining rivalries of the past 15 years. Do you remember watching any playoff games during the Colts-Pats rivalry? Because under this "must win a playoff game" definition, you are mistaken. You didn't. There were zero playoff games in the Colts-Pats rivalry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colts–Patriots_rivalry

    Colts-Pats met in the playoffs three times in the Manning-Brady era. Pats won the first two, Colts won the third. They never met again in the postseason when the rivalry officially "started". In fact, under this definition there were only four games in the entire Colts-Pats rivalry, all of them in the regular season - and Tom Brady didn't even play in one of those 4 games. Is that the Colts-Pats rivalry you remember? Or are rivalries formed over more than just mutual defeats in the playoffs?
    My reaction to what you just posted:



    The Pats and Colts met 3 times in the playoffs and both teams defeated each other at least once. There were other factors that made it a good rivalry but they also beat each other during the playoffs when it matters the most.

    It's not about when the rivalry began, it's about when did people really start viewing the 2 teams as rivals. I'm saying the 2 teams have to have some history of beating each other before you can look forward or backwards and say, "Those 2 teams are bitter rivals!"
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 10-21-2013 at 01:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    My reaction to what you just posted:



    The Pats and Colts met 3 times in the playoffs and both teams defeated each other at least once. There were other factors that made it a good rivalry but they also beat each other during the playoffs when it matters the most.
    Right, but his point is that didn't happen until the LAST time they played one another, therefore if there's this alleged unofficial 'rule' that they have to beat one another in the post season for it to be a rivalry, it was not a rivalry until essentially it was already over. A hindsight rivalry. And I doubt any of us who watched those seasons of NFL football would agree that it wasn't a rivalry before the Colts beat the Patriots in the AFC title game, therefore his point is sound: That shouldn't be the pass/fail bar for a rivalry.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    The Vegas idea (that Vegas thinks the Bulls have a better chance of taking down Miami) has a few flaws that bear pointing out. The first, is that the line or odds set in Vegas is heavily altered by the betting patterns of customers. Chicago is home to MANY a delusional fan to whom gambling is part and parcel of the whole sports deal. When you combine the propensity to gamble on sports with the overwhelming number of people (population wise) in the greater Chicagoland area you get a significant lowering of the odds. Vegas is literally hedging their bets, covering their *** in layman's terms. When you combine the historic appeal of the Chicago Bulls franchise, particularly from the MJ era, with the fact that Indianapolis is a VERY conservative town you get overwhelmingly worse odds for Chicago and a relative bargain for a bet on the Indiana Pacers, who on paper are at LEAST as good, if not better than Chicago.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Right, but his point is that didn't happen until the LAST time they played one another, therefore if there's this alleged unofficial 'rule' that they have to beat one another in the post season for it to be a rivalry, it was not a rivalry until essentially it was already over. A hindsight rivalry. And I doubt any of us who watched those seasons of NFL football would agree that it wasn't a rivalry before the Colts beat the Patriots in the AFC title game, therefore his point is sound: That shouldn't be the pass/fail bar for a rivalry.
    I see your point but that's not how I felt at the time. I hated the Patriots whenever the Colts played them but until the Colts actually beat them, the Colts were never favorites. I guarantee you that the Patriots didn't really fear Peyton Manning and the Colts until after they were defeated in the AFC Championship game. Remember the the "4th and 2" game?

    I don't think the Miami Heat really views the Pacers as a rival either because they've been able to get the best of the Pacers. However, they did feel a rivalry with the Boston Celtics because of being eliminated from the playoffs in previous seasons (Lebron with Cleveland and Wade with Miami).
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Trading playoff wins is a legitimate way to form a rivalry between two teams. I don't think anybody disagrees with that statement. But this doesn't exclude the possibility that there are other possible motivations for a rivalry. Athletes are human beings, not robots, and there are many different things that motivate people.

    If you wait until the second team "wins one" and ignore the competitiveness and the fun of the matchups, you will probably miss out on watching your rivalry. Because these days, especially in the NBA, teams are in such constant flux that long term rivalries will never really exist anymore.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    I see your point but that's not how I felt at the time. I hated the Patriots whenever the Colts played them but until the Colts actually beat them, the Colts were never favorites. I guarantee you that the Patriots didn't really fear Peyton Manning and the Colts until after they were defeated in the AFC Championship game. Remember the the "4th and 2" game?

    I don't think the Miami Heat really views the Pacers as a rival either because they've been able to get the best of the Pacers. However, they did feel a rivalry with the Boston Celtics because of being eliminated from the playoffs in previous seasons (Lebron with Cleveland and Wade with Miami).
    I disagree with this. I don't think the Miami Heat will ever say the Pacers are a rival because declaring somebody a rival implies some measure of competitive equality. And if we were to beat them in the playoffs? Interview them, ask them about the rivalry, and my bet is that they will avoid the question and spout off some tried and true drivel about "the better team today won" or "they played a great series, but we really beat ourselves because of..." Ego usually stops athletes who have or recently had the competitive advantage.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 10-21-2013 at 01:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Let him keep his eyes on MIA right up until the time the Pacers are kicking the Bull's A@@.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I disagree with this. I don't think the Miami Heat will ever say the Pacers are a rival because declaring somebody a rival implies some measure of competitive equality. And if we were to beat them in the playoffs? Interview them, ask them about the rivalry, and my bet is that they will avoid the question and spout off some tried and true drivel about "the better team today won" or "they played a great series, but we really beat ourselves because of..." Ego usually stops athletes who have or recently had the competitive advantage.
    Agreed. MIA knows what IND is. They may not say it out loud, but you can bet they prepare for the IND game unlike for any other game.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I disagree with this. I don't think the Miami Heat will ever say the Pacers are a rival because declaring somebody a rival implies some measure of competitive equality. And if we were to beat them in the playoffs? Interview them, ask them about the rivalry, and my bet is that they will avoid the question and spout off some tried and true drivel about "the better team today won" or "they played a great series, but we really beat ourselves because of..." Ego usually stops athletes who have or recently had the competitive advantage.
    Agreed. MIA knows what IND is. They may not say it out loud, but you can bet they prepare for the IND game unlike for any other game.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I disagree with this. I don't think the Miami Heat will ever say the Pacers are a rival because declaring somebody a rival implies some measure of competitive equality. And if we were to beat them in the playoffs? Interview them, ask them about the rivalry, and my bet is that they will avoid the question and spout off some tried and true drivel about "the better team today won" or "they played a great series, but we really beat ourselves because of..." Ego usually stops athletes who have or recently had the competitive advantage.
    That's not always true. Lebron openly acknowledged the Celts and Bulls as rivals but not the Pacers prior to their matchup with the Pacers back in March.

    Quote Originally Posted by King James
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    ...to a question about whether he deems the Indiana Pacers to be the Heat’s primary rival in the East.

    Against Boston, Chicago more than Indiana,” James said. “We’ve only had one series with those guys. So I would say it’s Boston. In our first year, we played those guys in the second round, and then last year we played in the Eastern Conference finals. And I have a lot of history with them before I got here, as well as the guys who have come here before. Indiana’s not a rival at this point.”
    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sp...acers-s/nWm8Q/

    Notice that LeBron talks about the rivalries with the Bulls and Celtics because of their repeated past history. Wade was swept by an upstart Bulls team lead by current Bulls players Kirk Heinrich and Luol Deng. If the Pacers knock them out of the playoffs, I think he'll admit that they are officially a rival.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    That's not always true. Lebron openly acknowledged the Celts and Bulls as rivals but not the Pacers prior to their matchup with the Pacers back in March.

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sp...acers-s/nWm8Q/

    Notice that LeBron talks about the rivalries with the Bulls and Celtics because of their repeated past history. Wade was swept by an upstart Bulls team lead by current Bulls players Kirk Heinrich and Luol Deng. If the Pacers knock them out of the playoffs, I think he'll admit that they are officially a rival.
    Firstly, actions speak louder than words. Secondly, that was before this past playoff series.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    That's not always true. Lebron openly acknowledged the Celts and Bulls as rivals but not the Pacers prior to their matchup with the Pacers back in March.

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sp...acers-s/nWm8Q/

    Notice that LeBron talks about the rivalries with the Bulls and Celtics because of their repeated past history. Wade was swept by an upstart Bulls team lead by current Bulls players Kirk Heinrich and Luol Deng. If the Pacers knock them out of the playoffs, I think he'll admit that they are officially a rival.
    And now there's a second series in the eastern conference finals that went 7 games. And the rest of the article is talking about how the Heat said they beat themselves in the two losses to Indiana earlier in the year and that Indiana only pushed it to 6 games because of Bosh's injury.

    Meanwhile they're giving props to the (at the time) over-the-hill Celtics and the Rose-less Bulls, neither of whom really posed a threat to the Heat that year. Oh, and this article was right before they faced the Pacers ago. So I was wrong in saying they would never admit it, but I have doubts as to how genuine it was.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 10-21-2013 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    And now there's a second series in the eastern conference finals that went 7 games. And the rest of the article is talking about how the Heat said they beat themselves in the two losses to Indiana earlier in the year and that Indiana only pushed it to 6 games because of Bosh's injury.

    Meanwhile they're giving props to the (at the time) over-the-hill Celtics and the Rose-less Bulls, neither of whom really posed a threat to the Heat that year. Oh, and this article was right before they faced the Pacers ago. So I was wrong in saying they would never admit it, but I have doubts as to how genuine it was.
    It goes both ways, the Pacer's players could easily say they also beat themselves in the ECF last season. Too many careless turnovers, and a blown defensive assignment. Fix one of those and the Pacers were in the Finals.

    The reality is the Pacers are the Anti Heat/Bulls. They don't have #1 pick or slew of lottery picks. Yet they are every bit as competitive as those 2 teams. Even though there is nobody on the Pacers who is superior or even equal to Lebron, Rose, Wade. Superstar players only show respect to other superstar players.
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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    I think all 3 (Heat, Bulls, Pacers) are rivals with each other
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    Default Re: Rose: Pacers great, but Heat only true rival

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    It goes both ways, the Pacer's players could easily say they also beat themselves in the ECF last season. Too many careless turnovers, and a blown defensive assignment. Fix one of those and the Pacers were in the Finals.

    The reality is the Pacers are the Anti Heat/Bulls. They don't have #1 pick or slew of lottery picks. Yet they are every bit as competitive as those 2 teams. Even though there is nobody on the Pacers who is superior or even equal to Lebron, Rose, Wade. Superstar players only show respect to other superstar players.
    So true! I would also say that Superstars only fear/respect other Superstars. They might feel differently about the Pacers this year and I wouldn't be surprised to hear LeBron admit that the rivalry is real now - especially if Paul George takes the expected next step in his developing into a Super-Star player.

    Either way, it's a rivalry for us Pacers fans whether the Heat or Bulls want to believe it. My guess is the Heat and Bulls fans might not view it that way because the Pacers have never beaten them when it counts. I expect that to change this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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