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Thread: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    I don't mind the Waiters pick in a vacuum, but I do think they will regret letting Waiters impact their decision this year.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't mind the Waiters pick in a vacuum, but I do think they will regret letting Waiters impact their decision this year.
    If you draft a player 4th overall that didn't start for his own college team, you're either brilliant or you need to re-evaluate your decision-making process.

    Here's the elephant in the room with that pick: You're not going to draft two SGs in the top five within a few years. They can't play together. By drafting Waiters last season, they effectively took themselves out of the running for Oladipo this season.

    I had no problem with them passing on Oldaipo. They had to. Their tough call was last year when they married themselves to Waiters.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-05-2013 at 04:47 PM.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If you draft a player 4th overall that didn't start for his own college team, you're either brilliant or you need to re-evaluate your decision-making process.
    What about when you take him second overall?

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    No but Danny Granger and Anthony Bennett have different body types.
    Yeah. Bennett is fat. Granger isn't.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    What about when you take him second overall?
    ...with Deron Williams and Chris Paul still on the board.

    Notice how drafting college 6th men has a pretty poor success rate? It's almost like there's a reason they weren't starting, or something.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If you draft a player 4th overall that didn't start for his own college team, you're either brilliant or you need to re-evaluate your decision-making process.

    Here's the elephant in the room with that pick: You're not going to draft two SGs in the top five within a few years. They can't play together. By drafting Waiters last season, they effectively took themselves out of the running for Oladipo this season.

    I had no problem with them passing on Oldaipo. They had to. Their tough call was last year when they married themselves to Waiters.
    I guess I don't understand why they had to pass on Oladipo. You couldn't have started one and brought the other off the bench and then eventually traded whichever one you wanted? Tristan Thompson is only 22 and that didn't stop them from taking Bennett. Another 4/3 guy. I mean were they really sold on Bennett as a 3? I just don't see how they could have been.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Heh, just realized that Tristan is Canadian also and attended Findlay in Vegas before Bennett did.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    I wonder why Cleveland didn't trade the #1 pick? Surely Bennet would have been there in the 5-9 range.
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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I guess I don't understand why they had to pass on Oladipo. You couldn't have started one and brought the other off the bench and then eventually traded whichever one you wanted? Tristan Thompson is only 22 and that didn't stop them from taking Bennett. Another 4/3 guy. I mean were they really sold on Bennett as a 3? I just don't see how they could have been.
    They were committed to developing Waiters when they spent the 4th pick on him. They can't develop two top-5 pick SGs drafted within a year of each other. The only way out was to trade Waiters, and at that point they'd be selling him for pennies on the dollar, because his production has been abysmal.

    I think, given their lack of a SF and the fact Bennett does have good SF skills, that the Cavs took him with the idea that he could eventually play SF. The problem is that all that advanced data doesn't tell you what worked for Bennett in college isn't going to work for him in the pros unless he actually learns to play like a big man. A 200-lb wing can easily close out on him from 25-20 feet if there's no threat of Bennett using his size and backing him down.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-05-2013 at 04:57 PM.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    They were committed to developing Waiters when they spent the 4th pick on him. They can't develop two top-5 pick SGs drafted within a year of each other. The only way out was to trade Waiters, and at that point they'd be selling him for pennies on the dollar, because his production has been abysmal.

    I think, given their lack of a SF and the fact Bennett does have SF skills, that the Cavs took him with the idea that he could play SF.
    Well call me crazy, but I'd rather let Oladipo play next to Waiters and Irving before letting Bennett play the 3. Oladipo's length and athleticism could have at least been a stop gap. Just poor decision making, IMO.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Well call me crazy, but I'd rather let Oladipo play next to Waiters and Irving before letting Bennett play the 3. Oladipo's length and athleticism could have at least been a stop gap. Just poor decision making, IMO.
    Problem is, you're not going to get maximum production out of Oladipo if he's splitting minutes in a 3-guard rotation. You're also cutting Kyrie's minutes back in order to develop the other two.

    Yes, in a vacuum it makes sense, but it isn't good for a GM to essentially admit he screwed up with the 4th pick a year after he made it.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I wonder why Cleveland didn't trade the #1 pick? Surely Bennet would have been there in the 5-9 range.
    all indications are they tried and didn't get any good offers.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Heh, just realized that Tristan is Canadian also and attended Findlay in Vegas before Bennett did.
    Maybe Dan Gilbert's draft strategy involves trying to corner the market on capturing the Canadian fan base.
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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    They were committed to developing Waiters when they spent the 4th pick on him. They can't develop two top-5 pick SGs drafted within a year of each other. The only way out was to trade Waiters, and at that point they'd be selling him for pennies on the dollar, because his production has been abysmal.

    I think, given their lack of a SF and the fact Bennett does have good SF skills, that the Cavs took him with the idea that he could eventually play SF. The problem is that all that advanced data doesn't tell you what worked for Bennett in college isn't going to work for him in the pros unless he actually learns to play like a big man. A 200-lb wing can easily close out on him from 25-20 feet if there's no threat of Bennett using his size and backing him down.
    I think they just looked for reasons on why they shouldn't draft certain guys. Noel-injuries, Zeller - underachieved as a Sophomore. Oladipo - was never really on the NBA radar until his Jr year.
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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I think they just looked for reasons on why they shouldn't draft certain guys. Noel-injuries, Zeller - underachieved as a Sophomore. Oladipo - was never really on the NBA radar until his Jr year.
    .....okay?

    No NBA team "looks for reasons" not to draft a highly rated prospect. I promise you they did not care what Oldipo's 2012 numbers were. And they passed on Zeller because they had Thompson, and Zeller wasn't a 5.

    Noel's injury was definitely a factor. The Cavs are in win-now mode.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If you draft a player 4th overall that didn't start for his own college team, you're either brilliant or you need to re-evaluate your decision-making process.

    Here's the elephant in the room with that pick: You're not going to draft two SGs in the top five within a few years. They can't play together. By drafting Waiters last season, they effectively took themselves out of the running for Oladipo this season.

    I had no problem with them passing on Oldaipo. They had to. Their tough call was last year when they married themselves to Waiters.
    Tell that to Kahn when only selecting pgs.
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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Tell that to Kahn when only selecting pgs.
    .....further reinforcing why NBA teams don't do this.

    Khan actually wound up with a very good prospect, but he completely wasted multiple high picks in the process.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-05-2013 at 05:19 PM.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If you draft a player 4th overall that didn't start for his own college team, you're either brilliant or you need to re-evaluate your decision-making process.

    Here's the elephant in the room with that pick: You're not going to draft two SGs in the top five within a few years. They can't play together. By drafting Waiters last season, they effectively took themselves out of the running for Oladipo this season.

    I had no problem with them passing on Oldaipo. They had to. Their tough call was last year when they married themselves to Waiters.
    Totally disagree with that assessment. Vic could play with Waiters easily. I would of took McLemore and played him with Waiters. They arent going to contend in the east until they have a 2 way stopper like Vic or Ben.

    I think McLemore was the best player and best fit for that team. I really like the thought of a Kyrie/McLemore, Waiters rotation (I don't like Waiters but the other two complement him well)

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Just a tidbit:

    If the team is fine with the terms of the rival's four-year offer sheet, it can just match and celebrate shaving a year off the back end of the contract. This is essentially what happened with Roy Hibbert, who signed a four-year max-level deal with the Pacers after discussing an offer sheet with the Blazers under those exact terms. Going four years with Hibbert allowed Indiana to reserve its one-time-only five-year "designated player" extension for George.6
    They wanted someone to make an offer, so Roy just wasn't just planning on bolting.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...their-way-2014

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Totally disagree with that assessment. Vic could play with Waiters easily. I would of took McLemore and played him with Waiters. They arent going to contend in the east until they have a 2 way stopper like Vic or Ben.

    I think McLemore was the best player and best fit for that team. I really like the thought of a Kyrie/McLemore, Waiters rotation (I don't like Waiters but the other two complement him well)
    Again, you're splitting time at the same position between two guys that only play one position. Even if it works out, your ceiling for production is low (splitting 48 minutes between two players that should be playing 30+ each), and your owner is going to want to know why you drafted a guy #1 overall that plays the same position as the guy you just took 4th a year ago. There is no answer you can give to that that doesn't entail, " I screwed up with the really high pick we tanked a season to get."

    Your only way out is for Oladipo to be a cant-miss superstar prospect, which he isn't. He's a really good 2-way guard prospect, which is exactly what waiters was supposed to be.
    Last edited by Kstat; 11-05-2013 at 06:00 PM.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    I would have drafted Noel if I was Cleveland I don't care if I have to wait a year.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Heh, just realized that Tristan is Canadian also and attended Findlay in Vegas before Bennett did.
    Canadians Cory Joseph and Myck Kabongo went to Findlay too. And Justin Jackson's there now I'm pretty sure, he'll probably wind up a high one and done pick. Findlay's shady as hell. The basketball team is literally the only students and they live in a big house owned by the founder of the "school."

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would have drafted Noel if I was Cleveland I don't care if I have to wait a year.
    Again, if Dan Gilbert is in your ear telling you it will be your job if you can't climb to the top 8 in the east this season with all of those super-high draft picks, you can't make that decision.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: The 10th NBA Random Thoughts thread 2013-2014: Coveting Miami's Crown

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Again, if Dan Gilbert is in your ear telling you it will be your job if you can't climb to the top 8 in the east this season with all of those super-high draft picks, you can't make that decision.
    True but at least with Noel you can sell that he has star potential, Bennett might end up been a good player but he doesn't have star potential.

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