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Thread: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

  1. #326
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Nuntius has already said it for me.

    You guys keep cherry picking from what you read earlier and then speak as though nothing else was said. And you apparently lump what one person said with someone who didn't even say it to begin with.

    I'll note, too, that apparently the only comments from any of us that matter are the ones that got you to be critical in the first place because clearly the ones we've made since that time (in an attempt to clarify where we stand) don't count for much of anything.

    Reductionism for the sake of criticism. Whatever.

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  3. #327
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Don't thank goodness. Thank able.
    so you're saying goodness isn't able? Well i've been confused since 2005

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Except that it's probably only one person who has called pre-season games totally meaningless. Most of us are arguing that the result doesn't mean anything but how a player plays actually means something.
    I've not said that winning/losing (results) in the preseason matters.... if I did someone please point it out to me cause I sure dont remember it. What I HAVE said is that the team looks bad as a whole unit. Individually I'm not seeing the improvement I had expected (how a player plays). Those are the two main issues I have been trying to discuss and I've no idea how anyone can debate those two points. So when you state ..Most of us are arguing that... who exactly are you arguing with, not me.

  5. #329
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FireTheCoach View Post
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    I've not said that winning/losing (results) in the preseason matters.... if I did someone please point it out to me cause I sure dont remember it. What I HAVE said is that the team looks bad as a whole unit. Individually I'm not seeing the improvement I had expected (how a player plays). Those are the two main issues I have been trying to discuss and I've no idea how anyone can debate those two points. So when you state ..Most of us are arguing that... who exactly are you arguing with, not me.
    So what's the problem, then? I thought we all basically agreed that the team has looked pretty bad these first two preseason games, but some of us were trying to say that we don't let the results of a couple of preseason games sour our outlook on the season to come because it's not exactly a great predictor for that sort of thing, and it seems like that's the point where you and some others were getting on our case for being inconsistent or hypocritical or whatnot?

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FireTheCoach View Post
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    I've not said that winning/losing (results) in the preseason matters.... if I did someone please point it out to me cause I sure dont remember it. What I HAVE said is that the team looks bad as a whole unit. Individually I'm not seeing the improvement I had expected (how a player plays). Those are the two main issues I have been trying to discuss and I've no idea how anyone can debate those two points. So when you state ..Most of us are arguing that... who exactly are you arguing with, not me.
    I just happen to disagree that the team looks bad as a unit. The starting unit has looked as good as expected although the consistent effort certainly isn't there (as expected in pre-season). It's the bench that is struggling and that is quite natural since they have only played 2 games together.

    And I may not argue against you in the "results don't matter" point but I'm certainly arguing against a lot of people that think they do.
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    So, when are we opening the 2013-2014 kneejerk reactions thread?
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Does anyone think the pacers have to have a rotation in order to be most effective ? It seems Vogel is trying some things out there, so everyone is out of sync.

    I was hoping for Vogel to put Lance with the starters yesterday when hill got injured ..

    I'd also like to see a lineup of Hibbert, cope, granger, George , and hill with some fast ball movement/ inside out game.
    Last edited by PacersForever; 10-13-2013 at 11:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    This issues in preseason with be real issues in the regular season, but not with the parity of preseason. Meaning we will struggle with turnovers and getting new players to learn the defnesive rotations. We will have streaky player going through peaks and valleys.

    What it doesn't mean is that we are doomed because of it. If we grow in our weakness we will be prepare. I will say it this year like I said it last year.

    It is a long season.

    Cubs fans and Reds fans are funny in April and May when their team is competitve. As a Cardinals fan I am not concerned with losing a series or flipping out about the pitching in June. I want to see how it comes together late August and September. I want them to stay close to the top and adjust for the home stretch.

    Same thing for the Pacers. If they are fourth seed through February I will not be worried. Its what they do for the home stretch.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersForever View Post
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    Does anyone think the pacers have to have a rotation in order to be most effective ? It seems Vogel is trying some things out there, so everyone is out of sync.

    I was hoping for Vogel to put Lance with the starters yesterday when hill got injured ..

    I'd also like to see a lineup of Hibbert, cope, granger, George , and hill with some fast ball movement/ inside out game.
    Yes, especially against teams like Chicago and Houston.

  14. #335

    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Just caught up on DVR.

    There're some good things happening. It's nice to have a serviceable backup PG again.

    Lance's defense was pretty awful in this game. He lost his man multiple times, leading to open jumpers. But he's nowhere near as bad as Copeland. I hope Copeland doesn't crack the rotation this season. He was overrated for the Knicks. It's the Troy Murphy syndrome. He looks efficient, but if you pay attention you start to see that he hurts the team.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    I'm glad I haven't seen a single minute of these preseason games yet. **** is getting real around here, fast.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Just caught up on DVR.

    There're some good things happening. It's nice to have a serviceable backup PG again.

    Lance's defense was pretty awful in this game. He lost his man multiple times, leading to open jumpers. But he's nowhere near as bad as Copeland. I hope Copeland doesn't crack the rotation this season. He was overrated for the Knicks. It's the Troy Murphy syndrome. He looks efficient, but if you pay attention you start to see that he hurts the team.
    Exactly what I've been saying since we got him, I don't like his game at all, people have been comparing him to shooters like Ryan Anderson and players like that and is not even close, I really hope we don't have to give up another pick to move him just let him expire.

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Nothing to worry about folks.. Copeland is obviously still trying to learn his role here... which is, of course, to be expected... remember it's still preseason. I'm sure he'll be great once the real games start!

    ahhhh,.... the sunshine feels soooo gooooooooooood

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    this thread needs to be sent to the glue factory.... it's the stereotypical dead horse now

  23. #341
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FireTheCoach View Post
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    this thread needs to be sent to the glue factory.... it's the stereotypical dead horse now
    I'll stop bumping it if you will.
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    the sky is falling
    Bring Danny off the bench

  25. #343

    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    What does Tyler have to do with any of this?

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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    He was overrated for the Knicks. It's the Troy Murphy syndrome. He looks efficient, but if you pay attention you start to see that he hurts the team.
    There is a difference between a player not knowing a defensive system and between someone that is neither able nor willing to play defense.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    There is a difference between a player not knowing a defensive system and between someone that is neither able nor willing to play defense.
    So far Copeland's instincts on defense have looked terrible.

  29. #346
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    So far Copeland's instincts on defense have looked terrible.
    No disagreement here. However, bad defensive insticts do not necessarily mean that you have to be a defensive liability. A great defensive system (like ours) can overcome a player's insticts and turn them into decent defenders. They will never be great defenders, obviously, but they don't have to be a liability if the system is good unless their body doesn't allow them to play D at all (like DJ who was neither big, quick or athletic).

    We have to understand that our defensive system is not easy. Furthermore, it's the complete opposite of what the Knicks played last year. The Knicks switched in every opportunity and tried to blitz the ball handler in order to force turnovers. That's the system that Copeland played in last year. We do the opposite of that. We almost never switch unless we're forced to do so and we pack the paint instead of pressuring the ball handler. Making the transition from constantly switching and blitzing to almost never doing it is not that easy.

    If you watch the games closely you will see Copeland switching when everyone else (well, almost) doesn't. That's the source of his defensive issues, imo. His lack of speed after the surgery (he isn't the most fleet-footed player anyway) only makes matter worse.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

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  30. #347

    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    There is a difference between a player not knowing a defensive system and between someone that is neither able nor willing to play defense.
    I guess he didn't learn the Knicks system either, since I'm basing my judgement on watching the Knicks play. Or maybe he's just a bad defender.


    I don't think he's the better player, but I think Houston has to start Patrick Beverley over Jeremy Lin. There haven't been many teams with elite level defense at both PG and Center, and having that level of defense at those positions can open up the transition game, which Houston is great at. It all makes too much sense to not start Beverley. They could be a lot better than I was expecting. I think Howard looks pretty good.

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  32. #348
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    Default Re: Indiana Pacers vs Houston Rockets 2nd preseason Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I guess he didn't learn the Knicks system either, since I'm basing my judgement on watching the Knicks play. Or maybe he's just a bad defender.
    The Knicks' defensive system was to switch at every opportunity in order to take advantage of their quickness at the PF and SF (since they preferred to play Melo at PF, Shumpert / JR at SF and also liked to run with two PGs). That's exactly what Copeland has been doing in our games so far.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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