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Thread: A few preseason thoughts...

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    Default A few preseason thoughts...

    I'm as excited for a season to start as I can ever remember being... I'm drinking the kool-aid and have high (maybe too high) expectations for the team this year.

    As a die hard life long Pacer fanatic I really really want to believe that this is our year.... BUT.... as a die hard life long Pacer fan, I have more than enough experience in the team not meeting my lofty expectations. I'm struggling to find the right balance between over confidence and stark realism. We all know the NBA season is a long and winding road wrought with unexpected twists and turns. Their are bound to be bumps in the road this season as well.

    On paper this team is far superior to last seasons squad... just the upgrades on the bench assures me of that, but their are some nagging pessimistic doubts going into this season that I can't help but to think about.

    We still do not have a point guard.... Hill has done a commendable job at handling the pg duties but he is the first to state that he IS NOT a point guard and never will be.

    How much has Paul improved on his ball handling? I hope a helluva lot cause he needs to. It the one part of his game that is way mediocre and he was solely responsible for waaaay too many turnovers last season.

    A healthy Granger usually takes 2 months of regular season playing time to start hitting his stride.... how long will it take him when he's got that sliver of a doubt about the knee? IMO he has to play at a high level fairly quickly or I can guarantee there will be unpleasant murmuring amongst the fan base about him being done and how Lance is the answer. Guaranflurkingtee that.

    All in all though... I can't find too much to be concerned about this time around... which is highly unusual for me... but being naturally inclined to be a dark sider, I felt the overwhelming urge to put these negative thoughts down for all to see. Thank you for indulging me.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    For the first time in a long time I don't think my expectations of winning a NBA championship are too lofty. This team has the talent to do it.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Good to see you are still around.

    Patience is about all I can advise. The season starts soon, and so do the answers to our questions.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Good to see you are still around.

    Patience is about all I can advise. The season starts soon, and so do the answers to our questions.
    Yes... words of wisdom for sure.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by FireTheCoach View Post
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    We still do not have a point guard.....
    This team doesn't need what I'm assuming you mean by a point guard. Hill is fully capable of bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. George is also. And Lance has done it often enough too. It allows for a lot of different sets that teams that rely solely on 1 guy always handling the ball can't run.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    We are going to be a handful. Scola and Granger are proven all-star calibre players...coming off the bench. Copeland and Watson both appear to be big upgrades. Instead of DJ, we have CJ Watson. Instead of Tyler, we have Luis Scola...a legit all-star caliber PF. Instead of Sam Young, we have Danny Granger our last franchise player. Instead of Gerald Green, we have Chris Copeland draining threes at 50%. Teams will need their starters to contend with these guys.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    We are going to be a handful. Scola and Granger are proven all-star calibre players...coming off the bench. Copeland and Watson both appear to be big upgrades. Instead of DJ, we have CJ Watson. Instead of Tyler, we have Luis Scola...a legit all-star caliber PF. Instead of Sam Young, we have Danny Granger our last franchise player. Instead of Gerald Green, we have Chris Copeland draining threes at 50%. Teams will need their starters to contend with these guys.
    How do you think the Pacers will do offensively this year? It seems with the bench upgrades the team should average 5 more points per game.
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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    What coach were you trying to get fired when you first joined PD?
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    PD original FireTheCoach's Avatar
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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    haha... well, it was probably Isiah.... but I disliked Obie almost as much. The FTC name isn't really about me not liking a coach, it's more about how the fans of sports teams always demand the coach be fired when their team struggles.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Scola and Granger are proven all-star calibre players...coming off the bench.
    Wow! Just look at all those worms coming out of that open can!

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    How do you think the Pacers will do offensively this year? It seems with the bench upgrades the team should average 5 more points per game.
    Much depends on Granger's health. I really like the other upgrades, but if we average 5 more points a game it will be because Granger is healthy and pouring in 12-15ppg. Danny is the guy that could add enough to put this team over the top. As it stands with our current players and their development, I'm not sure we have enough to get it done. A lot depends on Paul and Lance to develop as well. But a healthy Danny is an enormous upgrade over Sam Young. We are talking a solid 5ppg improvement.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    yeah, I can see your POV but I still tend to think the pacers need a pass first floor general 1. I mean, the pacers had the highest turnover avg per game and the starting 1 with the lowest assist per game of all the playoff teams in the east last season. Poor ball handling and ill advised passes have plagued this team for a long time. I'm more comfortable seeing Lance bring the ball up instead of Paul... ugh, Paul George dribbling is a turnover waiting to happen.... at least it has been up to this point in his career.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by FireTheCoach View Post
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    yeah, I can see your POV but I still tend to think the pacers need a pass first floor general 1. I mean, the pacers had the highest turnover avg per game and the starting 1 with the lowest assist per game of all the playoff teams in the east last season. Poor ball handling and ill advised passes have plagued this team for a long time. I'm more comfortable seeing Lance bring the ball up instead of Paul... ugh, Paul George dribbling is a turnover waiting to happen.... at least it has been up to this point in his career.
    That's not all on George Hill. This is beating a dead horse at this point, but our system isn't favorable to point guards putting up gaudy assist numbers. I think Hill is underappreciated and underrated league wide. There's a reason Bird tried to get him for years. There's a reason Popovich didn't want to trade him. His positives greatly outweigh the lack of flash in his game.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    That's not all on George Hill. This is beating a dead horse at this point, but our system isn't favorable to point guards putting up gaudy assist numbers. I think Hill is underappreciated and underrated league wide. There's a reason Bird tried to get him for years. There's a reason Popovich didn't want to trade him. His positives greatly outweigh the lack of flash in his game.
    It's true our offense is not setup for a traditional PG but that's because we don't have one.

    While that is not ideal, it will not stop us from winning a championship. Miami had Chalmers who isn't that different...and they now have two rings. Hill may be better than Chalmers, so we are fine there.

    But let's not pretend it doesn't matter at all. A PG who can initiate the offense can get the ball ahead of the defense and provide easy shots for his team mates. Jason Kidd is a good example. It was obvious that he made his team mates better which is the point of being a PG IMO. Other players can attempt to do that...which is what we tried last year...but that is a specialty of the PG who in many cases has honed that skill since he was a child.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's true our offense is not setup for a traditional PG but that's because we don't have one.
    Ahh - the chicken and the egg thing.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    This team doesn't need what I'm assuming you mean by a point guard. Hill is fully capable of bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. George is also. And Lance has done it often enough too. It allows for a lot of different sets that teams that rely solely on 1 guy always handling the ball can't run.
    there's always gotta be a scapegoat though

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Ahh - the chicken and the egg thing.
    My thoughts exactly

    I've always thought it to be the opposite of what Anthem suggested...

    Think about all the times Larry has passed on a traditional PG in a draft And we've really only had scoring PGs since the Tinsley days... It's always been my opinion that Larry doesn't think much of the traditional point guard position... He expects a passing team... Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he was one of the best passers in the L when he played SF/PF...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Mario Chalmers 2013, 2012
    Jason Kidd 2011
    Derek Fisher 2010, 2009, 2002, 2001, 2000
    Rajon Rondo 2008
    Tony Parker 2007, 2005, 2003
    Gary Payton 2006
    Chauncey Billups 2004

    Those are the starting point guards for the NBA Champions the last 14 seasons.

    Kidd and Payton were shells of their former selves by then. Rondo was the young 4th wheel back then. And I think of the others are scoring guards first and foremost.

    I realize we all appreciate pass-first floor general point guards, but clearly that's not what is necessary to win the championship. It comes down to team talent, team ability, as a unit. I say we have enough!

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and LeBron have had a lot more to do with winning rings than has needing a traditional PG. So, as I will say once again, it's not stopping the Pacers from winning a championship.

    In fact, I'd rather have Hill than a good distributor like Tinsley since Hill can defend the position. It might be more important for the PG to be able to defend than initiate the offense.

    But let's not discount the skill as-if it would not help. If Hill had Magic Johnson's ability to dish, we would undoubtedly be a better team. All you have to do is look at history for Jason Kidd. He had a huge impact on how well his team played and a lot had to do with his leadership on the floor and ability to deliver passes for easy shots.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Of course if Hill suddenly passed and dribbled like Tinsley we'd be better. I think everyone would agree with that. But he won't, so I don't think about it.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Of course if Hill suddenly passed and dribbled like Tinsley we'd be better. I think everyone would agree with that. But he won't, so I don't think about it.
    Oh, I agree totally. The only reason there was discussion is because of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    ...but our system isn't favorable to point guards putting up gaudy assist numbers.
    The system doesn't control whether you have a traditional PG. It's the other way around. Also, assists should never be considered "gaudy" as-if they are some kind of negative. Nobody ever called Magic's assists gaudy.......

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Çandace Būckner ‏@CandaceDBuckner 4m

    Vogel cont'd: "I’ve been around a lot of guys. He’s just got a very, very mature game.” As Nicolas Cage would say… http://grizzlybomb.com/wp-content/up...0oboo1_400.gif
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    Çandace Būckner ‏@CandaceDBuckner 6m
    "Well, he’s proven a lot to me. From the time he’s been here. There’s not a lot that he can’t do." Vogel on Solomon Hill
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    Çandace Būckner ‏@CandaceDBuckner 7m
    When listing the "proven" guys on the second unit, #Pacers coach Frank Vogel threw in @kingxsolo on that list….


    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/rooki...-training-camp



    He played 4 years in an NBA defensive system so not that surprising. I still can't recall a time he was out of position in defense coach Miller runs at Zona. He is going to be a solid glue guy for us at some point. I imagine he will play a bit this season. Long season so he will get a chance and he will take advantage of it.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    "Traditional" pass first/orchestrating PG's just aren't normally successful winning in this league. It's normally the combo guard, 3pt shooting defensive point (Fisher, Chalmers); or the scoring lead guard (Billups, Parker) whose teams have more success in the playoffs.

    The year Kidd won, he was no longer JKidd, and was basically a spot up 3pt shooter who guarded 2 guards defensively.

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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The system doesn't control whether you have a traditional PG. It's the other way around. Also, assists should never be considered "gaudy" as-if they are some kind of negative. Nobody ever called Magic's assists gaudy.......
    Well, yeah, it kind of does. If we are going to run an offense where we play inside/out, all we really are asking our PG to do is make entry passes and let Roy and West post up inside. If we ran a heavy pick and roll offense, we would probably need a point guard with more playmaking abilities.

    Gaudy was only a reflection of the assist numbers, not the actual assists themselves. As in, "Rajon Rondo puts up gaudy assist numbers," because he averages like 10 per game. You took that negative, but in no way was my choice of words meant to portray the assists in a negative light.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: A few preseason thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Well, yeah, it kind of does. If we are going to run an offense where we play inside/out, all we really are asking our PG to do is make entry passes and let Roy and West post up inside. If we ran a heavy pick and roll offense, we would probably need a point guard with more playmaking abilities.

    Gaudy was only a reflection of the assist numbers, not the actual assists themselves. As in, "Rajon Rondo puts up gaudy assist numbers," because he averages like 10 per game. You took that negative, but in no way was my choice of words meant to portray the assists in a negative light.
    Agree to totally disagree. You design your offense and defense around the players you have available...unless you are Jim O'Brien.

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