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Thread: Colts-Broncos

  1. #901
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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Looking at the year 2007 Football Outsiders had the line rated as the 4th in run blocking. I will be the first to admit alot of that had to do with Peyton being the best at presnap adjustments but that was Addai's best year.
    Speaking of which, I guess you could pull this comment from where your's started: The line isn't any better for him this year, but Luck has done a much better job of making adjustments and quick decisions in the pocket this season. I'm sure part of that is him catching up to the speed of the pro game, but my word has he been impressive. Seriously, I know Peyton has put up Madden-esque numbers, but with all the injuries we have had right now, Andrew Luck is the MVP of the league.

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  3. #902
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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Yeah, I guess I was just imagined the multiple snaps a game where our RBs would either be tackled or would have to dodge a tackler immediately after receiving the ball. You may not have missed a game but you either weren't paying attention or have a terrible memory. I don't even know what to say, you just blew my mind.
    Would you please make an effort to actually read and ingest what I say? At least TRY. I never once claimed that our o-line was a good one. Not once. Where you are reading that from is BEYOND me. We had a couple of really bad years, sprinkled in with some lesser bad and even mediocre. Why on earth would you think I'd just forget about those years?

    How you got "I think the o line was good back then" from my comment is what blows my mind. I said it was worse this year. THat doesn't mean that I think they were "good" in those days. How hard is it for you to understand that as bad as our line was back then, our line this year is still worse, even if not by a massive margin? This year's run-blocking is easily the worst I've seen from this Colts team in at least a decade, and that's saying a LOT, because we've had some pretty bad years.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-23-2013 at 08:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Speaking of which, I guess you could pull this comment from where your's started: The line isn't any better for him this year, but Luck has done a much better job of making adjustments and quick decisions in the pocket this season. I'm sure part of that is him catching up to the speed of the pro game, but my word has he been impressive. Seriously, I know Peyton has put up Madden-esque numbers, but with all the injuries we have had right now, Andrew Luck is the MVP of the league.
    If it weren't for Manning's video numbers, Luck would definitely be a popular MVP candidate. Brees deserves some props too. That guy is a master at conducting his offense.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Speaking of which, I guess you could pull this comment from where your's started: The line isn't any better for him this year, but Luck has done a much better job of making adjustments and quick decisions in the pocket this season. I'm sure part of that is him catching up to the speed of the pro game, but my word has he been impressive. Seriously, I know Peyton has put up Madden-esque numbers, but with all the injuries we have had right now, Andrew Luck is the MVP of the league.
    I think the line is a quite a bit better for him this year. Castonzo and Cherilous have kept him pretty clean on the ends, and I think Hugh Thornton has quietly been impressive inside.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Luck has been hurried/hit/sacked/knocked down at a faster rate this year than last year's fairly crazy rate. I think what you're seeing is Luck just got that much better at protecting the ball and avoiding pressure.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    If it weren't for Manning's video numbers, Luck would definitely be a popular MVP candidate. Brees deserves some props too. That guy is a master at conducting his offense.
    Oddly, the thing hurting Brees is that he was healthy last year and that team was awful. This year, they get their head coach back, and they are right back where they were.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Would you please make an effort to actually read and ingest what I say? At least TRY. I never once claimed that our o-line was a good one. Not once. Where you are reading that from is BEYOND me. We had a couple of really bad years, sprinkled in with some lesser bad and even mediocre. Why on earth would you think I'd just forget about those years?

    How you got "I think the o line was good back then" from my comment is what blows my mind. I said it was worse this year. THat doesn't mean that I think they were "good" in those days. How hard is it for you to understand that as bad as our line was back then, our line this year is still worse, even if not by a massive margin? This year's run-blocking is easily the worst I've seen from this Colts team in at least a decade, and that's saying a LOT, because we've had some pretty bad years.
    Maybe you should take your own advice there buddy. I completely understood what you said, I'm saying you are wrong, and you would have to be an idiot to think this years OL is worse than the OL under Caldwell. This year's OL might not be doing great, but at least they get in the way of defenders. Under Caldwell it was common occurance for defensive players to go completely unblocked and could have almost sacked Manning on a handoff. If you think that is better (better does not mean good) than the current OL you have no idea what you are talking about.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Maybe you should take your own advice there buddy. I completely understood what you said, I'm saying you are wrong, and you would have to be an idiot to think this years OL is worse than the OL under Caldwell. This year's OL might not be doing great, but at least they get in the way of defenders. Under Caldwell it was common occurance for defensive players to go completely unblocked and could have almost sacked Manning on a handoff. If you think that is better (better does not mean good) than the current OL you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Done talkin' to you.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Maybe you should take your own advice there buddy. I completely understood what you said, I'm saying you are wrong, and you would have to be an idiot to think this years OL is worse than the OL under Caldwell. This year's OL might not be doing great, but at least they get in the way of defenders. Under Caldwell it was common occurance for defensive players to go completely unblocked and could have almost sacked Manning on a handoff. If you think that is better (better does not mean good) than the current OL you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Why don't both of you look at it objectively. the 2007 line was much better at pass protection while 2013 is better at run-blocking. Manning could not have lasted very long with this line because he is stationary. Nor could he have ran this "power" offense with his smaller/quicker offensive line.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    There is a very good article on BR about Trent Richardson. I agree with Miller on most of his points. And as expected the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes he runs behind an average or below average OL but his vision leaves a lot to be desired at times like demonstrated here
    .

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...with-the-colts

    ...and here as demonstrated by @ColtsAuth_Kyle on his twitter


    Last edited by Johanvil; 10-25-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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  14. #911

    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Personally I hate these snap shots of him running the wrong way. They really don't do the plays justice or his decision making IMO and those last two are hilariously not the same as far as blocking goes.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    There is a very good article on BR about Trent Richardson. I agree with Miller on most of his points. And as expected the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes he runs behind an average or below average OL but his vision leaves a lot to be desired at times like demonstrated here
    Yeah, this was a good read.

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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Personally I hate these snap shots of him running the wrong way. They really don't do the plays justice or his decision making IMO and those last two are hilariously not the same as far as blocking goes.
    Even if they are not the same plays, the gap was there. One took advantage of it, the other didn't.
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  17. #914
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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos



    Look at the second play again.

    For DBrowns play, there's 7 defenders in the box (the 8th guy on the top right looks like a defensive back comin from the secondary). The line execution is a lot better. Our lineman actually have containment of their opponent and have better push. The entire left side has basically become a non-option, so Brown's only choice is to go right, which is also better sealed than in TRich's play.

    For TRich's play, there's 8 defenders in the box. Also 1 more Colt, so the entire scene is more congested. We do not have complete contain, and there is less push. The defender on #75 is not contained, and if TRich goes right instead, that guy will arm-tackle him. Unlike DBrowns play, Rich actually has the option to go left, as it's almost as open as the right. On the left Fleener has lost his one-on-one. I'm guessing it's his man that gets to TRich.

    Really not a shock to me that DBrown's play was more successful, less people and the ones that are there are doing their jobs better.

    I do notice that TRich is facing more guys in the box, and I'd bet that it's because opposing D's are giving him a lot more respect than they do Brown.

    Also... the article comparing his 'Bama days to his NFL days is pretty hilarious. What a MASSIVE difference in o-line and competition. The hogs at 'Bama during his tenure was one of the most legendary o-lines in recent college history.. the o-lines he's had in the pros have both been pretty bad run-blocking. Just watching the few clips they linked from 'Bama, he has way more room to operate.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-25-2013 at 10:36 PM.
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  19. #915
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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Look at the second play again.

    For DBrowns play, there's 7 defenders in the box (the 8th guy on the top right looks like a defensive back comin from the secondary). The line execution is a lot better. Our lineman actually have containment of their opponent and have better push. The entire left side has basically become a non-option, so Brown's only choice is to go right, which is also better sealed than in TRich's play.

    For TRich's play, there's 8 defenders in the box. Also 1 more Colt, so the entire scene is more congested. We do not have complete contain, and there is less push. The defender on #75 is not contained, and if TRich goes right instead, that guy will arm-tackle him. Unlike DBrowns play, Rich actually has the option to go left, as it's almost as open as the right. On the left Fleener has lost his one-on-one. I'm guessing it's his man that gets to TRich.

    Really not a shock to me that DBrown's play was more successful, less people and the ones that are there are doing their jobs better.

    I do notice that TRich is facing more guys in the box, and I'd bet that it's because opposing D's are giving him a lot more respect than they do Brown.

    Also... the article comparing his 'Bama days to his NFL days is pretty hilarious. What a MASSIVE difference in o-line and competition. The hogs at 'Bama during his tenure was one of the most legendary o-lines in recent college history.. the o-lines he's had in the pros have both been pretty bad run-blocking. Just watching the few clips they linked from 'Bama, he has way more room to operate.
    Arm tackle Richardson?

    More people are in the box against Richardson because they know when he's in the game there's a better chance of us doing a power run.

    If you read the article, the guy mentions that in the end. It's part of the mystery surrounding Richardson. He played behind (seriously) one of the best college offensive lines of all-time--at least the past 30 years. He could afford to be patient there and wait for the holes. Here (and in the NFL in general), he won't have the same.

    I thought the points he made were fair.
    Last edited by cdash; 10-25-2013 at 10:46 PM.

  20. #916
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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    I'll accept the blocking has room to improve. I'll also accept Richardson can't be fully evaluated now. He deserves until at least the end of the year, arguably early next season with a full battery of off-season prep with the team.

    With that said, his "early term" grade from me would be a D+ given what we gave up to get him. I am hoping that his "final grade" will be significantly better.
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    Default Re: Colts-Broncos

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Look at the second play again.

    For DBrowns play, there's 7 defenders in the box (the 8th guy on the top right looks like a defensive back comin from the secondary). The line execution is a lot better. Our lineman actually have containment of their opponent and have better push. The entire left side has basically become a non-option, so Brown's only choice is to go right, which is also better sealed than in TRich's play.

    For TRich's play, there's 8 defenders in the box. Also 1 more Colt, so the entire scene is more congested. We do not have complete contain, and there is less push. The defender on #75 is not contained, and if TRich goes right instead, that guy will arm-tackle him. Unlike DBrowns play, Rich actually has the option to go left, as it's almost as open as the right. On the left Fleener has lost his one-on-one. I'm guessing it's his man that gets to TRich.

    Really not a shock to me that DBrown's play was more successful, less people and the ones that are there are doing their jobs better.

    I do notice that TRich is facing more guys in the box, and I'd bet that it's because opposing D's are giving him a lot more respect than they do Brown.
    What it ultimately comes down to is Brown made the cut that kept him moving forward, while Richardson made the cut that forced him to stop and move sideways. If Richardson would have gone the other way instead of getting one yard he would have gotten at least 3 or 4 if not more. Maybe that is the difference in blocking, but that does not negate Richardson making the wrong cut in that situation.

    Some other notes.

    You seem to be completely ignoring the player who had completely beaten his block on Brown's play, and who would have had a much easier time tackling Brown than the guy who was being blocked by #75.
    Also #75 seems to be blocking a LB, and only just initiating the block, it is certainly possible he could have had a much better block by the time Richardson got to him.
    No the left isn't as open. Notice the guy up in the left corner. On the right, all he has to do is get past the guy #75 is blocking, and then space.


    Overall the blocking seems to be about equal. The difference is Brown made the correct cut while Richardson did not, and it plays out on how many yards each one got.

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