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Thread: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The positions would be reversed if the Pacers hadn't gotten worked by Chicago in their first game.
    Really? If that's true, then it's more bad than I thought initially.
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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Oh man, it is going to be so sweet to beat Chicago in 6 in the second round this year.

    Also, the notion that the Pacers "had trouble" with the Knicks is pretty far-fetched. We beat them 4-2 and lost one of those games when George Hill was injured and we had to start Augustine. New York was never a threat to win the series provided Hill could play. Sometime you wonder if these guys watched the games.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    I was really excited to read this thread. If Simmons had written it, the reaction would have been immediate vitriol and calling Simmons (or anyone else, really) a hack. But since pretty much anyone who reads anything about basketball can agree that Lowe is as good as it gets, this is getting more respect than this opinion would otherwise have gotten.

    As to the column, it's fair. He makes good points. Put it this way: I think Miami is the best team in the league, but I would rather see them in a seven game playoff series than a fully healthy Bulls team. Part of that is because I love the way we match up with Miami, and part of that is the compromising of our home court with shitbird Bulls fans.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    What poster has said anything about not being picked to win it all?

    I am referring to the common refrain we don't get any respect whenever there is an "expert" that doens't pick us to be as good as some in this forum think.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I am referring to the common refrain we don't get any respect whenever there is an "expert" that doens't pick us to be as good as some in this forum think.
    Okay, since it's so common who's saying we're not getting any respect?

    Disagreeing with rankings isn't crying, whining, *****ing, complaining about not getting any respect, complaining about not being picked to win it all. It's simply disagreeing with the rankings. I agree, as a board, we tend to go over the edge on some topics, but this aint one of them.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    He doesn't which is disappointing, but I expected it based on his analysis of the Pacers in the past. (he predicted the Heat would beat them in five, and he also predicted the Knicks would beat them, neither of those predictions held true)
    I predicted the heat would beat the pacers in 6. And I forget if I picked the Knicks or the Pacers, I would have to go back and look. I feared the home court advantage in that series might be a problem for the Pacers.

    Does that mean I don't give the Pacers any respect.

    Really some of my earlier comments probably would apply my aptly to some other threads. I get tired of the we don't get any respect line of thinking. When usually it is just an expert who just thinks the Heat will be better or the Spurs or who ever. I'll be the first to be critical when they make IMO a completely wrong pick, but when their prediction is within reason I enjoy reading what they have to say and I also like to see what some of the national people think of our team and what are weaknesses are

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Okay, since it's so common who's saying we're not getting any respect?
    you know it is a common refrain. whether it is common in this thread or not, we'll see, but I could dig out a dozen threads if I felt I needed to prove my point.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    FWIW, I dont remember any pundits picking us to make a deep run when we went to the finals. As a matter of fact, I remember people not thinking the Pacers would do anything the year Reggie retired (and we still took that series to 66 games)

    I agree with both of you, though. Granted, we are allowed to be a bit extreme. We are fanatics after all

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    I struggled with that initially, as well. I think Hufflepuff had the perception in the books of being lovable losers, whereas Ravenclaw were studious and very serious. So a big gap.
    To the common person who only watched the movies Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw are kind of after thoughts, so I assumed he meant it was irrelevant.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    At worse we are in the same boat as the Bulls and Clippers. We both are in the Prove It. And only the Spurs and Thunder are with the Heat. Personally I think we are in the Group A. But to be honest, not by much until we score the damn ball consistently.
    Yeah. My opinion is that Miami and San Antonio are in a league of their own.

    OKC? Prove it. They were very weak without Westbrook, and who knows how he'll come back. Not to mention the Kevin Martin loss, there's no clear 3rd scorer (Ibaka was a joke after Westbrook went down. Opportunity to get a lot more shots/plays, didn't step up.)

    Chicago? Prove it. Haven't had much success H2H with Miami since the Big 3 formed.

    I just don't see how Chicago is in the "Contender" category, despite clearly having more to prove than Indiana.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I was really excited to read this thread. If Simmons had written it, the reaction would have been immediate vitriol and calling Simmons (or anyone else, really) a hack. But since pretty much anyone who reads anything about basketball can agree that Lowe is as good as it gets, this is getting more respect than this opinion would otherwise have gotten.

    As to the column, it's fair. He makes good points. Put it this way: I think Miami is the best team in the league, but I would rather see them in a seven game playoff series than a fully healthy Bulls team. Part of that is because I love the way we match up with Miami, and part of that is the compromising of our home court with shitbird Bulls fans.
    I don't think he is being very fair at all. Trader Joe brings up an excellent point. The Bulls Teams that finished first in the league had Rose averaging around 26 and 8. They also had a crazy deep bench, those 2 years. Their bench is no where near as deep this year, nor are they as stout defensively. Then there is the idea that Rose will average 25-26pts a game in this come back season? Its is quite a leap. This Bulls team has seen alot of turnover on their bench from 2 years ago. Dunleavy and Dante Jones are on this team now. There is a reason why Thibs rode his starters the most last year. I dont' doubt Chicago will be neck and neck with us for the Central, but i just dont' think they rank higher than the Pacers in the pecking order of the East.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The positions would be reversed if the Pacers hadn't gotten worked by Chicago in their first game.

    We're gonna be battling with Chicago all year long. I hear people talking about a Heat-Pacers rivalry, but what I expect to see is a Pacers-Bulls rivalry.

    Meh.. The Pacers and Heat play to there full potential when going up against each other. They elevate there games and flat out hate each other, But at the end of the

    day they have mutual respect. The Pacers and Bulls is nice and all but with them owing our home court I can't see it as a rivalry. It's disgusting to see the mad house 2.0 in

    Indiana. Besides the Pacers aren't a regular season team, We are built for the playoffs. Even Bird said this in his press conference. But we really do need that number one seed.


    By me ^^

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Its embarrassing seeing him respond to Pacers fans who are insulting him on Twitter who have no idea what they are talking about.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Something that still hasn't been discussed: Is there really no concern about Luol Deng? He's been pretty injury prone the past couple of seasons, and isn't getting younger.

    Everyone talks about Granger's health, but Deng has missed a lot of time the last 2 seasons.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think his analysis is certainly reasonable and it is his opinion. So I don't see why any Pacers fans should take offense.

    Are we that insecure as fans that anytime there is an alaysis where the Pacers aren't picked to win it all we get all riled up? We get all defensive about how we never get any respect.

    Assuming no major injuries, the Pacers, Bulls and Heat are all going to be really good. of course the heat have proven themselvbes, so they are really in a class by themselves. Nets are extremely talented and dangerous and if healthy in April and May will be very tough to beat. Also the Knicks won't be bad either.


    I cannot wait for the regular season
    I'm with Buck on this one. Sure Lowe has the Bulls ahead of the Pacers. DRose was the MVP and they're a good team that won 46 games without him. The Pacers were horrible at times offensively last season. Games 3, 5, and 7 against the Heat were the worst but they had had some head-scratching droughts against the Hawks and Knicks as well. They still have a lot to prove in that area. They also have to prove that they can win while playing with a target on their chests. They'll be getting everyone's best shot now. Can they step up and play at a high level consistently? They have to prove it.

    Zach Lowe has a point. The only thing I'm surprised about is he's not mentioning how the Bulls have a hard time scoring when necessary too. Even with DRose they aren't a high powered offense. They do shoot the ball a little better from the field but overall, the Pacers average more points per game.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Man I can't believe he is actually responding to tweets on Twitter, the internet too many ways too communicate now :/

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    Its embarrassing seeing him respond to Pacers fans who are insulting him on Twitter who have no idea what they are talking about.
    could you post some examples for us non-twitterers?
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    I don't see a single tweet that he responded too that was an insult, unless you think getting called a Bill Simmons protege is an insult. One Pacer fan tweeted something about the Heat dominating the Bulls in 2011, and Zach said they weren't dominated while another Pacer fan tweeted that the tiers were BS, which Zach said they weren't BS.

    Pretty tame by twitter standards.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't see a single tweet that he responded too that was an insult, unless you think getting called a Bill Simmons protege is an insult. One Pacer fan tweeted something about the Heat dominating the Bulls in 2011, and Zach said they weren't dominated while another Pacer fan tweeted that the tiers were BS, which Zach said they weren't BS.

    Pretty tame by twitter standards.

    I'd love to know what he's backing that up with. The Heat won that series 4-1 with three of the games taking place in Chicago since Chicago had HCA. The Heat also ripped off four straight wins after the Bulls won Game 1. Complete domination any way you slice it.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I'd love to know what he's backing that up with. The Heat won that series 4-1 with three of the games taking place in Chicago since Chicago had HCA. The Heat also ripped off four straight wins after the Bulls won Game 1. Complete domination any way you slice it.
    Yes. Those games might've been competitive but overall it was, to steal a phrase from Michael Jordan, a delayed sweep.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I'd love to know what he's backing that up with. The Heat won that series 4-1 with three of the games taking place in Chicago since Chicago had HCA. The Heat also ripped off four straight wins after the Bulls won Game 1. Complete domination any way you slice it.
    He doesn't back it up with anything. I was just reading them off my phone, which is why I didnt't post them, but I'll type out his responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by @ZachLowe_NBA
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    @Valpbrian Heat were much healthier in '11 than '13, and that series was competitive. We disagree. Doesn't mean what I write is "BS".
    Valpobrian then points out that Zach wrote in his column that the Heat have been healthy "zero times" to which Lowe responds
    Quote Originally Posted by @ZachLowe_NBA
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    @Valpobrian Right. In 2011, that was LBJ's mental breakdow. Nothing even close to what happened to Wade in '13.
    Then another Pacer fan (marktinsleyjr) chimes in and says
    Quote Originally Posted by @marktinsleyjr
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    @ZachLowe_NBA Pacers took Miami to the brink. Chicago has been dominated by Miami every time they have played in the playoffs.
    Zach says
    Quote Originally Posted by @ZachLowe_NBA
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    @marktinsleyjr To say Miami dominated the '11 ECF is just objectively wrong
    I don't even understand what he meant by LeBron's mental breakdown. I mean, I get that it happened just not sure what it has to do with the reply.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I don't think he is being very fair at all. Trader Joe brings up an excellent point. The Bulls Teams that finished first in the league had Rose averaging around 26 and 8. They also had a crazy deep bench, those 2 years. Their bench is no where near as deep this year, nor are they as stout defensively. Then there is the idea that Rose will average 25-26pts a game in this come back season? Its is quite a leap. This Bulls team has seen alot of turnover on their bench from 2 years ago. Dunleavy and Dante Jones are on this team now. There is a reason why Thibs rode his starters the most last year. I dont' doubt Chicago will be neck and neck with us for the Central, but i just dont' think they rank higher than the Pacers in the pecking order of the East.
    So you just disagree with him, basically. It doesn't mean that the column isn't fair. It's his opinion, and he certainly isn't alone in having it. The Bulls have one of the best players in the league (and it's pretty clear Lowe is assuming Rose is healthy and will be 100% this season), one of the best coaches in the league, one of the best defenses in the league, the premier dickhead fanbase in the league...I mean, it's definitely an argument that can be made.

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Is it possible that a lot of Pacer fans have slightly re-written the history of the last playoffs as destination versus journey? That, instead of being "one away from The Finals", we struggled a lot against the Hawks, played a very good, close series with the Knicks (dominated? what?), ultimately lost a bad Game 7 in a very up-and-down series with the Heat? That some of us might, in addition to anticipating a fairy tale ending, have actually instated one from last spring?

    It's good to be optimistic, but the Pacers are on the part of the roller coaster that is ascending, slowly ticking upward. Some seem to think we're at the apex and others are even holding their arms in the air like they're speeding into a loop. (I'm not a fan of amusement parks.)

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    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The positions would be reversed if the Pacers hadn't gotten worked by Chicago in their first game.

    We're gonna be battling with Chicago all year long. I hear people talking about a Heat-Pacers rivalry, but what I expect to see is a Pacers-Bulls rivalry.
    Me too, and more than that I've personally moved the Heat in the tier below Indy and Chicago. Plenty of questions with that roster once you go past Lebron.

  32. #50

    Default Re: Grantland/Zach Lowe: "Kings Court: Evaluating the NBA's Tiers of Power" (Pacers listed #5)

    I think this would be less of an issue if the games within the Miami series were closer. Beside the exception of Game 1 and 2, Pacers got blown out in the games as we lost due to our lack of scoring either from wings Hill/Stephenson in Game 5, PG Game 7, or lack of bench production. He is being cautiously optimistic.

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