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OT: Indy Curse Lives

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  • #46
    Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

    Originally posted by Stryder
    What you describe is psychological, not a curse. Different things.
    You say tomaytoe, I say tomahtoe.

    A curse IS psychological. pull someone out of japan or some other culture into our own, and put them in a "cursed" house without telling them about the curse. Nothing happens. Tell them about the curse, and they will have all kinds of stories to tell.

    Curses exists - and they exist in the minds of those that bear them.

    Don't make me get all philosophical on yo ***!
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

      Originally posted by Eindar
      If you think so, then we agree to disagree. But I know personally, I've played organized football in the snow, and I know how difficult it is to both throw and receive passes in the snow. The QB and receiver both have difficulties, especially the receiver (read: dropped passes), meanwhile, all the DB has to do is watch the eyes of the receiver and get his hands in front of his opponents'. The fact that the ball is harder due to the cold weather only compounds the problem. There's no way a guy like Marvin Harrison can burn his man on a go route, then catch a 40 yard laser from Peyton Manning in this weather. Either he'd slip, Peyton would miss the throw (snow or hard to grip ball), or Harrison would drop the ball (hard ball, snow).
      Well since you've apparently decided NOT to agree to disagree ...

      I played football in upstate NY. Snows there occasionally. It's not a problem unless it's VERY heavy. We used to love it then - the offensive player knows where he's going and the DB doesn't. All you have to do is set your cuts up and they're sliding all over the field. But you don't use timing patterns much.

      Well, we loved it on offense - I played LB on D and didn't care for it on that end so much. But in anything but heavy snow it doesn't matter.

      I'm sorry that you don't drive in light flurries - if it's that much of a problem seeing for you in a football game I'd hate to see how it affects you at 60 miles/hour.

      As for slipping - did you even WATCH the game? There was virtually no snow accumulation on the field over a 3 hour period and I can't remember a single slip that could be attributed to a sloppy field.

      Don't take a pile of bull****, put it in a pretty sack and try to sell it as candy.
      The poster formerly known as Rimfire

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

        Originally posted by btownpacer
        Well whoopty ****ing do. IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME!!! I NEED BLOOD! ANGER! SOME SORT OF BIG THROW DOWN!!!


















        Or at least someone putting up more of a fight than Tony Dungy.....
        You'll like my next reply better ...
        The poster formerly known as Rimfire

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

          Originally posted by DisplacedKnick
          Well since you've apparently decided NOT to agree to disagree ...

          I played football in upstate NY. Snows there occasionally. It's not a problem unless it's VERY heavy. We used to love it then - the offensive player knows where he's going and the DB doesn't. All you have to do is set your cuts up and they're sliding all over the field. But you don't use timing patterns much.

          Well, we loved it on offense - I played LB on D and didn't care for it on that end so much. But in anything but heavy snow it doesn't matter.

          I'm sorry that you don't drive in light flurries - if it's that much of a problem seeing for you in a football game I'd hate to see how it affects you at 60 miles/hour.

          As for slipping - did you even WATCH the game? There was virtually no snow accumulation on the field over a 3 hour period and I can't remember a single slip that could be attributed to a sloppy field.

          Don't take a pile of bull****, put it in a pretty sack and try to sell it as candy.
          So glad to see you know more than the entire Colts coaching squad. That makes you an international expert on both Football AND Basketball, correct? Pretty amazing. You must have been just like Jim Thorpe, it's strange I've never heard of you.

          You see, regardless of the BS analogies and roundabout facts you trot out, the professional coaches and players agree with ME. Or do you have some sort of bizarro explanation as to why the playcalling was so conservative, and also why Peyton, the smartest QB in the league, had no desire to change the plays to a more vertical attack?

          I win, you lose. Drive through, COME AGAIN!

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

            Eindar, if it always came down to "Well the coach agrees with me, so there!" We'd have never survived the Isiah Thomas era...

            You seem overly hostile towards people lately, btw. Knocking their knowledge level, for instance. Care to lighten up?

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

              I'm fine to agree to disagree. It's when people keep going, and also throw things out there like "You'll like my next reply better", implying a coming flame if the thread doesn't end, that I get openly hostile. Also, I've only been hostile about the Colts, and the bandwagon fans. If that offends you, I apologize. However, it's the truth. I'm not rubbing anyone's nose in it, just stating the facts. There are very few win-or-lose Colts fans in this city at the moment, and it drives me up the freaking wall to hear them be the talk of the state on every TV show, radio talk show, and even in between songs on FM stations with DJs from out of town (Smiley).

              Also, I make it a point never to come out and insult people. However, when you make a claim about your knowledge level, you should be prepared to back it up when it's called into question. Personally, if you're looking for someone to censure/ban or whatever, you've got bigger fish to fry, because you'll never find me resorting to personal attacks against anyone who doesn't attack me first.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

                Getting back on track...

                I just saw Sean Salisbury on ESPN and he blamed the Colts' loss on not challenging down the field. He then said the weather should've been a positive for them because they know where they are going.

                He said this allowed the Pats to tighten things up and defend the short field but still the Colts didn't go downfield.

                And he said the Colts played not to lose.. and they won't be in the Superbowl because of it.
                ---

                In a video clip Dungy said they need to continue to get better. He believes in the system and doesn't believe they need to do anything to beat one certain team. They just need to continue to improve at what they do.

                ---

                -Bball
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

                  Originally posted by Eindar
                  I'm fine to agree to disagree. It's when people keep going, and also throw things out there like "You'll like my next reply better", implying a coming flame if the thread doesn't end, that I get openly hostile. Also, I've only been hostile about the Colts, and the bandwagon fans. If that offends you, I apologize. However, it's the truth. I'm not rubbing anyone's nose in it, just stating the facts. There are very few win-or-lose Colts fans in this city at the moment, and it drives me up the freaking wall to hear them be the talk of the state on every TV show, radio talk show, and even in between songs on FM stations with DJs from out of town (Smiley).

                  Also, I make it a point never to come out and insult people. However, when you make a claim about your knowledge level, you should be prepared to back it up when it's called into question. Personally, if you're looking for someone to censure/ban or whatever, you've got bigger fish to fry, because you'll never find me resorting to personal attacks against anyone who doesn't attack me first.
                  Who came up with any personal attacks? You posted total crap. Absolute Bull****. I guess Fran Tarkenton retired as the NFL's all-time passing yards leader when he quit throwing every season in mid-November. Impressive. Jim Kelly's even more impressive - or maybe he quit throwing each December too - makes Andre Reed's YPC numbers even more astonishing when they went to dink-and-dunk every year when the snow came. And Brett Favre - funny how he managed to throw for over 4,000 yards the years GB didn't have a running game. Must have done all of that the first 12 games of the season too.

                  And Tom Brady didn't have much trouble throwing the ball - he hit a couple of 30-yarders and just missed on a long sideline pass.

                  Quit posting garbage and you won't get called on it. But I'm not gonna just shut up when you come out with a pile of crap like you've been spouting.

                  The field wasn't bad and it wasn't snowing that hard - not when the field is almost completely clean at the end of a 3-hour football game.
                  The poster formerly known as Rimfire

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

                    Originally posted by DisplacedKnick
                    Who came up with any personal attacks? You posted total crap. Absolute Bull****. I guess Fran Tarkenton retired as the NFL's all-time passing yards leader when he quit throwing every season in mid-November. Impressive. Jim Kelly's even more impressive - or maybe he quit throwing each December too - makes Andre Reed's YPC numbers even more astonishing when they went to dink-and-dunk every year when the snow came. And Brett Favre - funny how he managed to throw for over 4,000 yards the years GB didn't have a running game. Must have done all of that the first 12 games of the season too.

                    And Tom Brady didn't have much trouble throwing the ball - he hit a couple of 30-yarders and just missed on a long sideline pass.

                    Quit posting garbage and you won't get called on it. But I'm not gonna just shut up when you come out with a pile of crap like you've been spouting.

                    The field wasn't bad and it wasn't snowing that hard - not when the field is almost completely clean at the end of a 3-hour football game.
                    "Don't take a pile of bull****, put it in a pretty sack and try to sell it as candy."

                    This was you, right? Sounds like it's getting personal to me. In fact, FAR more hostile than I have ever been on these boards. Yet I'm the one catching crap for it. Maybe it's because I don't have over 1000 posts....

                    Back on topic, one of two things screwed the Colts Sunday. It's either that the colts are a dome team and can't stand the cold, or it's because passing attacks work better where it's warm and sunny. I suppose there is the outside chance that the Colts decided to scrap the system that they've used exclusively for at least 2 seasons in order to play a style that they know they're bad at and the Pats are great at. But if that's the case, fire every coach on the team, because that's the worst gameplan in the history of football.

                    So, back to the other 2 reasons. I never have bought the "warm weather/dome team in the cold" excuse for 1 simple reason. Surely some of those players played college or high school football where it was cold. It doesn't make sense to me that you would spend a couple years in Miami (for half your games), and all of a sudden forget the 4 years you spent at Kansas State or Oklahoma. Not knowing how to deal with the cold is something I reserve for college teams, who have a decent percentage of local talent.

                    So why do dome/warm weather teams lose to cold weather teams? Could it be that I'm right? You mention the fact that plenty of very good QBs threw for a lot of yards while having a home field that was very cold. You also bring up Andre Reed's YPC stat. Were all of those YPC on bombs? Or were some of them dink-and-dunk passes with screens and large YAC? You can't tell from YPC, because it doesn't matter if the ball flies 40 yards downfield or 5 inches. It only matters where the receiver ends up. Jerry Rice also has a pretty nice YPC average, and he played in a West Coast Offense for most of his career, which is completely designed on dink-and-dunk. For that matter, Favre played in a system very similar to the West Coast Offense, because Holmgren is a disciple of Bill Walsh/Seyfert, and am pretty sure he installed the West Coast Offense in Green Bay. As for Jim Kelly and Fran Tarkenton, I'm not sure how they racked up their yards. If they did it with a lot of YAC, it only proves my point, if not it proves yours. Regardless, it's something that neither of us can prove.

                    Maybe it's a conglomeration of the two that leads dome/warm weather teams to be so abysmal in cold, bad weather. Plenty of time spent in hospitable weather, combined with the fact that they tend to play a more vertical game. For the record, Green Bay and Buffalo both played a form of ball-control offense. Buffalo had Thurman Thomas, Green Bay had the West Coast Offense. Frannie was before my time, so I can't comment.


                    By the way, you've spent a LOT of time attacking my views and opinions, but I don't think I've actually seen you post your theory on why the Colts did what they did, and also why they stunk up the joint. You said in one of your posts that they were stupid for playing the Pats game. Do you actually believe they changed their game plan solely to try to beat the Pats at their own game? What do you believe exactly?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

                      Eindar, I'm not gonna do a complete point-by-point. We've beat this up enough.

                      First, is playing a game indoors in 70-degree weather on turf better for the Colts game than playing in Foxboro on grass in Dec? Sure. Does that make it worth abandoning their game plan? Hardly - especially when conditions weren't that bad.

                      As for why Indy abandoned their game plan and played right into the Patriots hands, I have no idea. It's ridiculous. The weather wasn't ideal, but it wasn't bad. It was on grass which is slower, but the field was pretty decent.

                      The only thing I can figure is they were afraid of making TO's early, getting behind and having it snowball - but that's a WAG because nobody's come out and said. I could see it the first drive or two because Edge had a lot of success running the ball in Sept. But that theory should have been dumped by the end of their second possession. And when a wide receiver is assigned to cover Brandon Stokely, and you don't attack and attack and attack that matchup like they did the week before when a rookie was on Reggie Wayne, I can't figure it out.

                      I know that one of the great truths of the world, in any competitive situation, is to make your opponent play your game, not for you to play theirs. This works for business, politics, sports - pretty much everything. The Colts abandoned that and as soft as the Indianapolis media is, we'll probably never get a real answer as to why.

                      I also have this is the biggest piece of evidence that what you've been saying is wrong. The Colts had one scoring drive Sunday. Not coincicidentally, they also had one drive where they abandoned the run almost completely in favor of the pass. That was at the end of the first half. Actually they had two - one of those drives was when Bruski (sp) took the ball away from Rhodes. Peyton was 10-of-12 during that period - about the last 6-7 minutes of the half. So you have success for two drives, you find something that works and then come the second half, you go away from it.

                      I don't have a clue what the coaching staff was doing.
                      The poster formerly known as Rimfire

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

                        Originally posted by Eindar
                        I'm fine to agree to disagree. It's when people keep going, and also throw things out there like "You'll like my next reply better", implying a coming flame if the thread doesn't end, that I get openly hostile. Also, I've only been hostile about the Colts, and the bandwagon fans. If that offends you, I apologize. However, it's the truth. I'm not rubbing anyone's nose in it, just stating the facts. There are very few win-or-lose Colts fans in this city at the moment, and it drives me up the freaking wall to hear them be the talk of the state on every TV show, radio talk show, and even in between songs on FM stations with DJs from out of town (Smiley).

                        Also, I make it a point never to come out and insult people. However, when you make a claim about your knowledge level, you should be prepared to back it up when it's called into question. Personally, if you're looking for someone to censure/ban or whatever, you've got bigger fish to fry, because you'll never find me resorting to personal attacks against anyone who doesn't attack me first.
                        I just see you being testy over nothing. DK's "You'll like my next post better" wasn't even directed at you as I could tell, and being familiar with his posts over the years, certainly wasn't a windup before throwing out a flame, so your brain made that up for you. And then you accuse me of looking to ban and censure you. You're looking for a fight and should really think about that and chill out. No one is trying to fight you, but you'd think someone's been taking shots at you. Relax.

                        Originally posted by Eindar
                        This was you, right? Sounds like it's getting personal to me. In fact, FAR more hostile than I have ever been on these boards. Yet I'm the one catching crap for it. Maybe it's because I don't have over 1000 posts....
                        Familiarity could play a role, yes. All I know is any hostility in this thread is futile and needless; I don't think anyone really wants a "fight".

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

                          Sportscenter just had a Top 10 of droughts for sports cities, and Indy ranked 5th (#1 was San Diego).
                          Check out my autographed 1972-73 Topps basketball project

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: OT: Indy Curse Lives

                            FWIW,

                            I think blaming the game plan is overdone. FUNDAMENTALS were key. The Pats D took away the deep routes. The excellent tackling and having defenders in the right positions minimized the shorter completions. The Pats D didn't even look particularly complicated or confusing, just perfectly executed.

                            I bet that if you analyze Manning's 400 yard games you find a lot of 10,15,20 yard passes with 20, 30, 40 yards gained AFTER THE CATCH.

                            Tell me how many times you saw a guy catch a 10 yard pass and gain much more than 10 yards? "YARDS AFTER CATCH" were eliminated, and that was due to great execution of a brilliant defensive gameplan.

                            And it boggles my mind, as it did BEFORE THE GAME, that anyone was totally amazed. Oh, I was amazed at 3 points, but not by the margin or the control of the line of scrimmage.
                            The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

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