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Thread: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Haven't watched Trent Richardson in the NFL since that game he played against the Colts last year where he had eight total rushing yards (his career low I think). I don't know about this trade. I remember chuckling when the Browns drafted Richardson, thinking only lesser evolved franchises like the Browns would be dumb enough to burn a top 3 pick on a running back in 2012. Well the Colts just did essentially the same thing. The Grigson regime worries me. I have watched the Washington Redskins trade draft picks (especially for overrated skill players) like hot cakes for years, and it still affects their quite poor depth to this day. Now I hope Grigson leads the Colts the promised land as much as anyone, but I'm a bit worried. I liked the Polian model of building through the draft a lot better. Now, once Polian forgot how to draft or let his idiot soon draft that went to ****, but for a few years it really worked.

    I think Bill Simmons is a charlatan who somehow gets paid for writing unintelligible stuff at times, but he has a good point here:



    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/.../game-changers

    So it really is a fallacy that drafting a RB in the NFL "lottery" means there is a very good chance that guy will be elite. In fact the opposite is true.
    Except the Colts pick won't be anything near a top 3 pick. It probably won't even be a top 20 pick.

    The only thing about this trade that would concern me is how long will Trent last? Everyone knows what type of back he is. He is a physical downhill runner. How long can he play like that at a high level?

  2. #152
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    Of course, Trent isn't really going to get better blocking here honestly. What he will get however is a competent QB which will allow Trent to not run against 7 or 8 in the box
    The Colts are the #1 run blocking team in the NFL right now. They are #26 in pass blocking though. I would say that Richardson is going to get better blocking here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    The Colts are the #1 run blocking team in the NFL right now. They are #26 in pass blocking though. I would say that Richardson is going to get better blocking here.
    Here's the thing. I believe his run blocking will be the same BUT the perimeter talent has to be accounted for here and the QB is a deep threat EVERY PLAY. Richardson may not have a great game this week (it is San Francisco after a loss and he probably hasnt learned all the verbiage yet

  4. #154
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Of course he's likely to struggle tomorrow. He's been on the team for 2 days. New system, new teammates, on the road, at the best team in the league's house. I'd be surprised if he came out and rocked the place, not that I'd hope against that.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Except the Colts pick won't be anything near a top 3 pick. It probably won't even be a top 20 pick.
    Look at the schedule. That pick will absolutely be in the top 20.

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  8. #156
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Trent averaged 3 ypc while seeing 8 men in the box roughly 17% of his carries(league average is 23%). The reason he had so many yards after contact is because his vision is so poor he would miss huge tunnels and barrel into contact at the line of scrimmage and bounce into the closing lane. He has a long way to go before he's a good back, but he has the tools to see that happen.

    Nobody got fleeced in this deal. Late 1sts in the NFL are far better value than late 1sts in the NBA. Your not picking up "bench depth" until the 4th or 5th round in the NFL. You gave up a starting caliber draft pick for a known quantity that isn't the 3rd overall pick he was selected at.

    I'd also advise you to give a read on Scott Fujita's take on Trent. He's blunt, but he's honest and the last time he publicly dressed down a former Browns RB he was spot-on about the attitude problems(Hillis being a diva).

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    The Colts are the #1 run blocking team in the NFL right now. They are #26 in pass blocking though. I would say that Richardson is going to get better blocking here.
    The thing is the blocking won't really matter. He's gotta hit the holes they give him.

    http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/06/b...medium=twitter

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Of course he's likely to struggle tomorrow. He's been on the team for 2 days. New system, new teammates, on the road, at the best team in the league's house. I'd be surprised if he came out and rocked the place, not that I'd hope against that.
    And the sad part is, we'll have fans claiming it was a bad trade based on that one game, just like the knuckleheads who wanted Manning back after Luck's first game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    Trent averaged 3 ypc while seeing 8 men in the box roughly 17% of his carries(league average is 23%). The reason he had so many yards after contact is because his vision is so poor he would miss huge tunnels and barrel into contact at the line of scrimmage and bounce into the closing lane. He has a long way to go before he's a good back, but he has the tools to see that happen.

    Nobody got fleeced in this deal. Late 1sts in the NFL are far better value than late 1sts in the NBA. Your not picking up "bench depth" until the 4th or 5th round in the NFL. You gave up a starting caliber draft pick for a known quantity that isn't the 3rd overall pick he was selected at.

    I'd also advise you to give a read on Scott Fujita's take on Trent. He's blunt, but he's honest and the last time he publicly dressed down a former Browns RB he was spot-on about the attitude problems(Hillis being a diva).
    1) Au contrere, Trent is starting material, and that 20th pick has about a 20% chance to start for any serious amount of time.
    2) So you found a negative article about a player on the internet? Well there ya have it; he must suck.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    1) Au contrere, Trent is starting material, and that 20th pick has about a 20% chance to start for any serious amount of time.
    2) So you found a negative article about a player on the internet? Well there ya have it; he must suck.
    I didn't say he sucked. I said he isn't a 3rd overall selection talent. The article may have shown his weaknesses, but it was far more informative than a bash 'em you're making it out to be. Not to mention half the plays the article used were scoring position touches where he missed a walk-in score that lead to 3 instead of 6. So yeah, that's a huge problem for a 3rd overall pick to have, especially when Weeden is your QB.

    If you're not drafting starting caliber players in the late 1st round, you're doing it way wrong. Either you're not really drafting positions of need, or you have no ability to seriously evaluate talent at the next level.

    One way or the other, a RB shelf life is ~5 years. The Browns saw they had an asset that would be in his third year before the team really had a chance to see what he was worth, which is half his career. They saw an opportunity to build toward the future while dealing a guy who had great value, but a few flags as well.

    Regardless, you argued two positions I don't(and didn't in my post) hold. I understand you're emotionally charged by getting last year's #3 overall for "just" a first rounder(which, again, is applying NBA draft position to the NFL), but you paid his appropriate value for him. No one lost this trade and no one came out way ahead.

  14. #161
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    I like the player and the move, both on a player and fiscal level. I know what to look for; there's plenty of knowledgeable people who share the same view, and someone telling me I'm emotionally charged and that it was a lateral move is whatever. It shouldn't take a genius to realize that he's better than 20th pick material; that Cleveland gained very little from the move; and Cleveland has already eaten most of the financial cost of his contract. It was a ridiculously slick move by Grigson.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-21-2013 at 08:15 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    .............. and Cleveland has already eaten most of the financial cost of his contract. It was a ridiculously slick move by Grigson.
    I think a lot of people over-look this point. The money the Colts will spend on Richardson over the next few years isn't like 1st round money. Here are the details:\

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...son-trade.html

    THAT'S a bargain for the Colts no matter how one tries to spin it. $2 million a season ?? For a starting RB ?? I can name 31 other teams in the league that would like to have a starting RB on that salary.

  16. #163

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    I didn't say he sucked. I said he isn't a 3rd overall selection talent. The article may have shown his weaknesses, but it was far more informative than a bash 'em you're making it out to be. Not to mention half the plays the article used were scoring position touches where he missed a walk-in score that lead to 3 instead of 6. So yeah, that's a huge problem for a 3rd overall pick to have, especially when Weeden is your QB.

    If you're not drafting starting caliber players in the late 1st round, you're doing it way wrong. Either you're not really drafting positions of need, or you have no ability to seriously evaluate talent at the next level.

    One way or the other, a RB shelf life is ~5 years. The Browns saw they had an asset that would be in his third year before the team really had a chance to see what he was worth, which is half his career. They saw an opportunity to build toward the future while dealing a guy who had great value, but a few flags as well.

    Regardless, you argued two positions I don't(and didn't in my post) hold. I understand you're emotionally charged by getting last year's #3 overall for "just" a first rounder(which, again, is applying NBA draft position to the NFL), but you paid his appropriate value for him. No one lost this trade and no one came out way ahead.
    Didn't he tie Jim Browns record for TDs though as a rookie? How bad can he be at the goal line runs?

    Lol. A running backs shelf life is hardly 5 years and if that was the case we shouldn't have signed Edge, Bradshaw or Eric Dickerson. The RB shelf life is shorter than most but it's hardly 5 years especially when most NFL teams use a 2 back system. A shelf life for a second or third string RB maybe 5 years but my guess is that you aren't looking at the facts when you consider actually starters. If what you said was true every HOf rb should have been traded in year four which is ridiculous to suggest.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 09-21-2013 at 09:07 PM.

  17. #164
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Like I've said... pretty much repeatedly....

    1) He possesses a very nice, possibly elite, overall skillset. There aren't many holes in his game. About the ONLY part of his game that he's lacking is that he doesn't have *blazing* speed, but I don't care about that, because you don't need it, and his overall combination of other plusses easily puts him in great company. I like his style of running, which is an Emmitt Smith/Edge style of running. They're patient; run north-south; incredible balance, great vision. They could pass-protect. They could catch the ball. They were great in the open field. They could get yards after the initial hit. I've watched a lot of running backs; when he came out, I said to myself we haven't seen a running back like this come out since AP, and even if he *isn't* quite as good as AP, I'll take even 75% of AP. He played on the friggin Browns. It's a disaster franchise. He conducted himself admirably, considering the situation. He amassed 1300 yards of offense, despite his terrible offense and being injured, and he scored 13 touchdowns. How on earth anyone can take "he underwhelmed" from that is absolutely asinine. He had a very good year last year, all things considered, and we didn't see him at full strength. Imagine coming into a situation like Edge did in 1999 --- you got Peyton Manning, Tarik Glenn, Marvin Harrison, Dilger, a slew of offensive players.... Richardson came into ---- Cribbs? Weeden? I think that Richardson *COULD* have had an Edge like year last year had he came into a situation like what Edge debuted with. But he didn't. He came into the Browns. He still put up some stats. We haven't seen the best of him.
    2) Indy KILLED Cleveland on this deal. Not just from a talent, draft position perspective... but from a financial perspective. Richardson is on his rook contract, and already has been paid. As I had already known, and like what PacerDude re-stated, according to that article: "The Colts get Richardson at $6,602,671 for practically three full seasons." Incredible. No one is really focusing on this at all. A starting-caliber RB, who has a chance to become in my opinion a top-5 back in the league, for 2.2mill/year for the next 3 seasons, no questions asked. Are you kidding me? Even if you completely remove that aspect, Indy won this deal on pure talent alone. In the past 10 years, Indy has drafted (and let's keep in mind Polian was considered a draft master, don't care what any of you guys have to say about his final years) the following players in the late part of the 1st round: Werner (who knows yet), Costanzo (not great...... not bad..... ), Jerry Hughes (gone), Donald Brown (sucks), Anthony Gonzalez (sucks and gone), Joseph Addai (a few good seasons, but mostly not impressive), Marlin Jackson (see Addai). No real major hits at all. That's about what we could've expected with our 1st pick this year. Not a single one of those players has 1) the actual production that Trent had in his rookie year, nor 2) near the potential that Trent has. It was a talent *win*. You aren't going to get Reggie Wayne at that spot very often, and he was drafted 11 years ago.
    3) You watch. Luck + Richardson is going to be something else. The 2012 draft was one for the ages, and Trent completely belonged in the top of that draft. We have the best QB and the best RB from that draft, and both are arguably the best prospects at their respective positions to come out of college since Manning in '98 and AP in '07. They are going to be something else together. They will be even moreso next year once we further address our line this off-season. This is only year 2 folks. It's still being built. It cannot happen in a year. We've addressed some spots already pretty well. It took us 8 years with Manning to get that SB. We cant be upset that we're not SB-bound in Year 2 of Luck. Sit back and enjoy some fireworks and be ready for some frustration this year as our top players are also very young and will have some growing pains. That's just how it's going to be.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-22-2013 at 12:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Doug Martin has already shown you that Richardson wasn't the best back in his draft class, and he didn't have to grow any to do it. Guess when he was drafted?

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    Doug Martin has already shown you that Richardson wasn't the best back in his draft class, and he didn't have to grow any to do it. Guess when he was drafted?
    Well they better trade him in 3 years since his shelf life will be up.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Well they better trade him in 3 years since his shelf life will be up.
    Sure, if his new GM decides he's not a part of the future.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    1) Au contrere, Trent is starting material, and that 20th pick has about a 20% chance to start for any serious amount of time.
    2) So you found a negative article about a player on the internet? Well there ya have it; he must suck.
    Actually, 4 out of the last 5 20th picks are currently starting for the teams that drafted them. And the one that isn't (WR Kendall Wright of the Titans) caught 7 passes for 54 yards last week.

    Is it possible that this is a George Hill - Kawhi Leonard trade, which makes sense for both teams, but has inherent risks? It's certainly possible that Richardson is a top notch running back who was stuck with 8 man boxes and a bad QB in Cleveland, and will break out without those restrictions for the Colts. And it's certainly possible that the extra pick allows the Browns to draft the franchise QB they desperately need.

    But it's also possible that the concerns with Richardson on the Browns carry over, and that the Colts aren't that good this year, thus giving up a top 10, top 15 pick. And that the Browns front office will screw up the draft picks anyway.

    We'll just have to wait and see.
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  23. #169

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Cris Carter was talking about Trent just now on Countdown, said that Trent was an extremely hard worker at Alabama on the field and a really good kid off the field (Cris said he has spent a lot of time with him). Says that he spends a lot of time with his brother who is his best friend and is a quiet guy, which is maybe why his teammates may have felt alienated to a degree. But he says that Trent absolutely hates losing and took it hard last year in Cleveland.

    I like to hear that at least
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    I think a lot of people over-look this point. The money the Colts will spend on Richardson over the next few years isn't like 1st round money. Here are the details:\

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...son-trade.html

    THAT'S a bargain for the Colts no matter how one tries to spin it. $2 million a season ?? For a starting RB ?? I can name 31 other teams in the league that would like to have a starting RB on that salary.
    The NFL salary cap isn't remotely as restrictive to competitiveness as the NBA's salary cap. You have to make a series of very serious blunders (see: Raiders of Oakland) for those numbers to start having a noticeable effect on your team. It's great for Irsay's wallet, but to me, as a fan, the money really doesn't move the needle either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The NFL salary cap isn't remotely as restrictive to competitiveness as the NBA's salary cap. You have to make a series of very serious blunders (see: Raiders of Oakland) for those numbers to start having a noticeable effect on your team. It's great for Irsay's wallet, but to me, as a fan, the money really doesn't move the needle either way.
    Balder-dash. Cap issues were at the heart of Indy going 2-14.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Balder-dash. Cap issues were at the heart of Indy going 2-14.


    Yeah, it was cap issues...

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Yeah, it was cap issues...
    I think it was a Painter's Cap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Yeah, it was cap issues...
    Are you frickin kiddin me? Are you new to this?
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Are you frickin kiddin me? Are you new to this?
    Evidently, because all this time I thought the 2-14 season was a product of replacing arguably the greatest quarterback of all time with the likes of Curtis Painter.

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