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Thread: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

  1. #326
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    He's been inconsistent. Excluding the last game, he hasn't been terrible. Really, it was just this last game that he put up a stinker... the rest he's been decent at catching when he's been targeted. Honestly, he's not targeted often. In his first 4 games, he caught 13 of the 19 passes thrown his way, which is about average in terms of catch/drop ratio, maybe even a little above. Reggie Wayne is 28 catches in 42 targets already. The last game DHB was 0-6... was Sherman on him?

    I wouldn't over-react about DHB just yet. If the last game starts a trend, then worry... thus far, it's just a blip.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-08-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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  2. #327
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    He's been inconsistent. Excluding the last game, he hasn't been terrible. Really, it was just this last game that he put up a stinker... the rest he's been decent at catching when he's been targeted. Honestly, he's not targeted often. In his first 4 games, he caught 13 of the 19 passes thrown his way, which is about average in terms of catch/drop ratio, maybe even a little above. Reggie Wayne is 28 catches in 42 targets already. The last game DHB was 0-6... was Sherman on him?

    I wouldn't over-react about DHB just yet. If the last game starts a trend, then worry... thus far, it's just a blip.
    DHB has sucked his entire career. But I don't want to jump down this rabbit hole again.

  3. #328
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    So wait... he's an average receiver for us for 4 games.... which would label him as "average for the Colts"..... has *ONE* bad game... and he now sucks. Got it. Totally not an over-reaction. Sort of like the TRich reaction after a week and a half. I'm sensing a pattern here.
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    So wait... he's an average receiver for us for 4 games.... which would label him as "average for the Colts"..... has *ONE* bad game... and he now sucks. Got it. Totally not an over-reaction. Sort of like the TRich reaction after a week and a half. I'm sensing a pattern here.
    Here's what you are missing: I, like most others posting on this board I'm sure, watch a lot of football. That's what Sundays in the fall are for. DHB and Trent Richardson are not rookies. They have been in the league longer than four games. Richardson's sample size is much smaller, but DHB has been bad for many, many years now. He wasn't even good in college. The only reason he was drafted so high was because Al Davis was senile and in lust with his 40 yard dash time. That's it. His hands have never been good. Ask Raiders fans. Even when factoring in their craptastic QBs, he has not been good. The greater trend I see here is that you will blindly support and make excuses for anyone with a Colts jersey on.

  5. #330
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The greater trend I see here is that you will blindly support and make excuses for anyone with a Colts jersey on.
    Okay, .

    I don't care where DHB was drafted. I don't care what he did for the worst offense in recent history. All I care about is his skillset, his build, his work ethic, and what he's done for this franchise. That's all you should look at too.

    I recognize that in four games, he was fairly reliable, if somewhat seldom-targeted. And then he has 1 stinker of a game (against one of the best secondaries in the league), and cdash is saying he sucks. That is the DEFINITION of an over-reaction. Just like proclaiming TRich a waste of a pick after a week and a half.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-08-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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  6. #331

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Okay, .

    I don't care where DHB was drafted. I don't care what he did for the worst offense in recent history. All I care about is his skillset, his build, his work ethic, and what he's done for this franchise. That's all you should look at too.

    I recognize that in four games, he was fairly reliable, if somewhat seldom-targeted. And then he has 1 stinker of a game (against one of the best secondaries in the league), and cdash is saying he sucks. That is the DEFINITION of an over-reaction. Just like proclaiming TRich a waste of a pick after a week and a half.
    The question is, what has DHB done for the Colts so far? He hasn't been a deep threat. His average catch has gone for 10.4 yards, which is 93rd in the league and 4th on the Colts. He hasn't been a TD scorer, as he has none of Luck's 7 TD's so far. He hasn't been the possession guy picking up lots of 1st downs, because he only has 13 catches on the season. And as you've mentioned, his catch rate on his targets was only average before he had his bad game in week 5 that will drop his season stats to below average. The Colts say he's a good blocker on running plays, so I'll take their word on that and give him credit for that. And he might have picked up his share of pass interference calls as well.

    He hasn't been a disaster, but he's been incredibly replaceable so far. He's shown he's an average 3rd/4th receiver, and there are lots of those around the NFL. His Oakland days suggest that he'll catch a few more deep balls for TD's over the course of the year, but that's likely about it.

  7. #332
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Okay, .

    I don't care where DHB was drafted. I don't care what he did for the worst offense in recent history. All I care about is his skillset, his build, his work ethic, and what he's done for this franchise. That's all you should look at too.

    I recognize that in four games, he was fairly reliable, if somewhat seldom-targeted. And then he has 1 stinker of a game (against one of the best secondaries in the league), and cdash is saying he sucks. That is the DEFINITION of an over-reaction. Just like proclaiming TRich a waste of a pick after a week and a half.
    So you want me to ignore everything a guy has done everywhere else in his career before he comes to the Colts? These guys are NFL players. They are elite athletes. Almost every single one of them is going to have a good skillset and build or else they probably wouldn't be in the NFL. Work ethic is a huge difference maker, I agree wholeheartedly there.

    It's not an overreaction because I didn't change my opinion of him after last game. If you had asked me anytime in the past few years, and certainly in weeks 1-4, I would have said that he sucked. But I don't hate the pickup of DHB for a few reasons: 1) He came cheap. 2) He does have one elite skill--his speed. 3) I think good quarterback play is something he's never seen before and I think Luck might be able to coax something out of him. But man it drives me crazy when he tries to catch the ball by trapping it against his body.

    I have to assume he will have a few pretty good games for us playing across from Reggie Wayne and with the dynamic (and scary as hell) TY Hilton in the slot, and I further assume every time he makes a decent play from now on I shall hear about it from you.

  8. #333
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Darius Heyward-Bey has been an extremely good blocker, a poor pass catcher, and has used his speed to draw a few penalties. Overall he's basically been exactly average. Which is just what we hoped Donnie Avery would be last year. In this case, average is an improvement.
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Darius Heyward-Bey has been an extremely good blocker, a poor pass catcher, and has used his speed to draw a few penalties. Overall he's basically been exactly average. Which is just what we hoped Donnie Avery would be last year. In this case, average is an improvement.
    I still view him as a stop gap that needs to be replaced by a guy in the draft or in the 2014 FA's. I have my eyes on Golden Tate, Jacoby Jones or Eric Decker.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I still view him as a stop gap that needs to be replaced by a guy in the draft or in the 2014 FA's. I have my eyes on Golden Tate, Jacoby Jones or Eric Decker.
    Yeah I think that's how the FA views him as well. And I'm fine with that, that's what you expect out of a guy like that. I wish Jacksonville was stupid enough to deal Justin Blackmon for a couple of third round picks or something. I really like him.

  12. #336
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Justin Blackmon is an idiot. I want no part of that.
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Justin Blackmon is an idiot. I want no part of that.
    That he is

    That's kind of why I was hoping to be able to get him for a low price. I think he's really talented, and maybe in a locker room like ours where we have good leadership and won't tolerate **** like that he would get his act together. I wouldn't trade anything of high value for him (ie, no pick higher than a third rounder), but if the Jags wanted to rid themselves of his idiocy, then I'd be interested at the right price.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Heyward-Bey's DVOA has been almost exactly 0. He is pretty much the definition of average.

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  16. #339
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/99...g-indy-problem

    Presented without commentary:

    Just over a month ago, the sky was supposedly falling in Cleveland.

    That's because the Browns had traded running back Trent Richardson, the third overall selection in the 2012 NFL draft, to the Indianapolis Colts in a move that many deemed sheer lunacy. The belief at the time was that Cleveland was giving up its best offensive weapon, a player who should be the bedrock of the franchise.

    Now the only criticisms that can be heard are coming from Indianapolis, where Richardson remains the disappointing talent the Browns had the good sense to deal.

    It's not that Richardson is a bad player. It's just that he's not an exceptional one.

    He has yet to gain more than 60 yards in any of his five games with the Colts. He's had 75 carries during that time and produced all of 228 yards, which is a worse yards-per-attempt average than he generated in his first two games with Cleveland this season (3.04 compared to 3.39). Richardson scored the first two touchdowns of his season while in Indianapolis, but more people likely recall his critical fumble late in the Colts' upset win over Denver on Oct. 20.

    As much as optimists in Indianapolis preach the importance of patience when faced with these facts, it's becoming hard to see the upside in a player who was supposed to be special and cost the Colts a first-round pick.

    "We were getting killed when we made that deal, but now people are seeing the same things we saw in him," one Browns source said. "There is a lot to like about Trent. He's solid, dependable, hard-working. The problem is that he's not explosive."

    That final indictment is the biggest reason Colts fans should be concerned about their new franchise running back moving forward. Richardson has logged 373 carries in his two-year career. Only 20 of those rushing attempts have ended in a run longer than 10 yards, which ranks him 32nd among all running backs since the start of the 2012 season. Richardson also has failed to be the perfect counterpart to quarterback Andrew Luck on a team that was hoping to balance its offense with a dominant power-running component.

    [+] EnlargeTrent Richardson
    AP Photo/AJ Mast
    Trent Richardson has failed to impress in five games with the Colts, averaging a paltry 3.04 yards per carry, with just two touchdowns.
    The Colts had the idealistic notion that Luck -- who threw 627 passes last season as a rookie -- would make life easier for Richardson. All of those Browns fans who balked at the trade believed that Richardson wasn't becoming a star in Cleveland because the team had nothing else around him. They didn't see a running back who rushed for 950 yards last season because that was the best he could do. They viewed Richardson as a promising talent who had the misfortune of facing eight- and nine-man fronts every time he lined up for the Browns.

    Well, Richardson isn't seeing too many stacked boxes in Indianapolis these days. He's also not the only player in this league who has to deal with defenses designed to stop him. Minnesota's Adrian Peterson has seen that throughout his seven-year career, and he ran for 2,097 yards in 2012, less than a year after he underwent reconstructive surgery for a torn ACL. Jacksonville's Maurice Jones-Drew hasn't had much of a supporting cast around him, either. He wound up leading the league in rushing in 2011 with a career-high 1,606 yards.

    The issue with Richardson is that he's mostly effective in situations where his team needs tough yards. As the Browns source said: "I saw him score on a 1-yard touchdown in his first game there (a 27-7 win over San Francisco) and the announcer said that was why the Colts traded for him. And all I could think was that play was right in Trent's wheelhouse. He'll make those plays for you all day. But when you need seven yards, he'll still get you three."

    There already have been several theories offered as to why Richardson has continued to struggle on a better team. Some have suggested that he's trying too hard to make something happen. Others suspect he's overthinking things or simply struggling to fit in with a new offensive line. Those people still think of Richardson as the same talent he was touted to be after leaving Alabama. They don't want to believe they possibly could be wrong.

    In reality, it's hard to think Alabama didn't make Richardson look better than he really was. He played with three offensive linemen in college who were selected in this year's draft – including first-round picks D.J. Fluker and Chance Warmack – and it's not like he's the first Crimson Tide runner to disappoint in the NFL. Richardson split time with Heisman Trophy winner Mark Ingram at Alabama. That would be the same Mark Ingram who has 1,107 career rushing yards since the New Orleans Saints selected him with the 28th overall pick in the 2011 draft.

    The only defense Ingram has at this stage of his career is opportunity. The Saints have enough talent in their backfield -- with Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles in the mix -- one could argue that a crowded depth chart has factored into Ingram's lack of production. On the other hand, another former Alabama runner, Green Bay rookie Eddie Lacy, has gained 446 yards this season and launched himself into the early conversation for offensive rookie of the year honors. He's already proven what some scouts thought about him when he entered the draft -- that he could be better than both Ingram and Richardson in the long run.

    The big question the Colts now face is whether Richardson can elevate his game in the second half of this season. Indianapolis already lost one huge offensive weapon when Pro Bowl wide receiver Reggie Wayne tore his ACL against Denver, so it's fair to assume the Colts will need more from their running game. If Richardson really does have star potential, this is the time to start showing it. But if what we've seen so far is any indication, nobody in Indianapolis should be raising their hopes too high.

  17. #340
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    All fine and dandy but the article pointed very little to the o line, except to admit he hadn't had a good one since alabama.

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  18. #341
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    All fine and dandy but the article pointed very little to the o line, except to admit he hadn't had a good one since alabama.

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    I thought the stuff from the Browns sources was the most interesting part.

  19. #342
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    They said he has no burst. No kidding, he's a shifty power back. When you don't have a line then it's an issue. We're basically trying to run a power offense with a power back --- and the exact opposite line. Until they get that line fixed, we're going to keep seeing these silly articles.

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  20. #343
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    We all know my stance so I'm not going to jump back into the circular argument game, but just thought that was interesting. FWIW, Wells tweeted that out.

  21. #344
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Well, Wells was on that video of the article so it makes sense.

    Yes he runs behind an average to bad OL. But by keep mentioning it, we basically admit he's not something exceptional. I'm not gonna mention his draft pick because that's not on him but on the team that scouted him and evaluated. I'm all for giving him time and judge him towards the end of this season and the next one but so far he has been "meh".

    Also, take a look at this stat over here http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/OL

    I found it interesting that the Colts' OL is ranked 3rd in Stuffed rank*. I'd tell you before seeing that stat that there were enough times that I thought T-Rich had nowhere to go almost from the get go of the snap.

    *Stuffed: Percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage. Since being stuffed is bad, teams are ranked from stuffed least often (#1) to most often (#32).
    Last edited by Johanvil; 10-31-2013 at 08:17 PM.

  22. #345
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    As I posted on the Colts board, it's time to use him in a different way. Especially with Reggie going down. Use him as a safety valve/possession receiver or even split him out wide. He should be getting 5 targets per game instead of 1.5 or something he has been getting. Get Trent in the open field and we will really see how dangerous he can be.

  23. #346
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    As I posted on the Colts board, it's time to use him in a different way. Especially with Reggie going down. Use him as a safety valve/possession receiver or even split him out wide. He should be getting 5 targets per game instead of 1.5 or something he has been getting. Get Trent in the open field and we will really see how dangerous he can be.
    Yea, I've been saying this too. We're not using him right at all.

    And the line stats are just misleading. Any stat that says we have a good run-blocking line is just crazy. Luck's scampers must be skewing things badly... he gets about 20-30 yards a game, and almost always runs for a first down, has like a 7 ypc average. Any "stuffed" numbers indicating that we're doing well can only be explained by TRich dragging defenders a few more yards.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  24. #347

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    So what's Donald Brown's excuse? He's averaging 5.9 yards a carry behind the same line. I guess he's on the same level as Barry Sanders. We're also 9th in the league as a team in rushing and 7th in yards per attempt. That's magical for such a terrible line.

    Or maybe Trent Richardson is the only player effected by our bad o-line.

    Maybe our o-line hates Trent Richardson so they're not blocking for him.

    Or maybe Trent's averaging 3 yards per attempt so he can fool everyone in the playoffs.

  25. #348
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Because they run different sets with Donald.

    When they run the ball with Trent, they line up in a two back set usually with two TE's. The offense also breaks out their flag pole, and places it right behind the line with a flag that reads "Here comes the run!"
    When they run with Donald, it's usually out of a spread formation. 3 WR's, 1 TE, 1 back. The defense doesn't get to see the big red flag staring at them, so they're spread out more and don't get to stack the box.


    Donald also has great change of pace. He can get up to full speed very quickly, allowing him to bust through a hole that is getting shut down. Trent is a little slower, and much bigger. But it's pretty easy to see the difference, when you start looking for the different formations each back lines up with.

    EDIT: Which is why most of us on here have been calling for Pep to loosen up the playbook a bit. I get the idea of a power running game, and I like it to an extent, but unless you have a big strong offensive line it can't be the default running attack.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-01-2013 at 11:30 AM.
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  26. #349
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    It's the offensive line, it's the play calling, but not Richardson's fault at all?

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    A specific question was asked and a specific answer was given. It should stay right there, instead of trying to take it further. If you disagree there's a difference in play calling, then say so, and not try to take what I said and make it more.
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