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Thread: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The thing I love most about the NBA and the NFL is that every year the NFL draft is stacked and every year the NBA draft isn't. OK media dudez
    Yeah, I don't really agree with that NFL draft being stacked comment he makes either. Although to be fair, next year's NBA draft is getting the "stacked" label and already has teams doing some nice summer tanking.

  2. #252
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    They won a Super Bowl. They played in another. According to Kid Minneapolis, they did have decent RBs during at least part of that time you just referenced.
    Wasn't bad. We had Edge for awhile, and then the platoon of Rhodes/Addai. Got the job done. Addai and Edge were 1st rounders, Rhodes was deep, but Rhodes was a dawg.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Wasn't bad. We had Edge for awhile, and then the platoon of Rhodes/Addai. Got the job done. Addai and Edge were 1st rounders, Rhodes was deep, but Rhodes was a dawg.
    Addai was solid. Good at pass protection. I actually liked Rhodes more than most--thought he was pretty decent for the most part. But Since was using those 10 years of our running back situation as some sort of reason why we "didn't meet expectations" which I don't necessarily agree with.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Addai was solid. Good at pass protection. I actually liked Rhodes more than most--thought he was pretty decent for the most part. But Since was using those 10 years of our running back situation as some sort of reason
    why we "didn't meet expectations" which I don't necessarily agree with.
    I wasn't talking about the running back situation as in personnel, I was talking about offensive philosophy and how we use the running backs. Grigson/Pagano clearly put more importance on the RB position, than Irsay/Caldwell/Dungy did.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I wasn't talking about the running back situation as in personnel, I was talking about offensive philosophy and how we use the running backs. Grigson/Pagano clearly put more importance on the RB position, than Irsay/Caldwell/Dungy did.
    Ahh, I gotcha. Misinterpreted that.

    I don't really have a problem with their philosophy. I like that they know what kind of team they want to be, and I have to admire the aggressiveness they are displaying to achieve it. This particular move I am just not wild about.

  6. #256

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    So why is Richardson still only averaging 3 yards per carry if our offensive line isn't that bad?
    In part it's running style and he has to get comfortable with the Oline. I don't think he is a home run threat but I do think we aren't passing him the ball off of screens very much as well which he has a lot of value that we aren't tapping into. I also think Brown isn't durable, Bradshaw isn't and we have our cheap late round option on IR. Trent has a style that will keep him healthy longer than anyone else on our team and believe me I know his injury history.

    I think he is somewhat like Edge. Not as good but he has certain attributes like him that I think this team needs in order to have a power running game. Is it sexy? No but he is essentially what you need in a back. A strong runner who pushes a pile and protects the QB. If you want a home run threat normally those guys are limited in pass blocking and have durability issues.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    In part it's running style and he has to get comfortable with the Oline. I don't think he is a home run threat but I do think we aren't passing him the ball off of screens very much as well which he has a lot of value that we aren't tapping into. I also think Brown isn't durable, Bradshaw isn't and we have our cheap late round option on IR. Trent has a style that will keep him healthy longer than anyone else on our team and believe me I know his injury history.

    I think he is somewhat like Edge. Not as good but he has certain attributes like him that I think this team needs in order to have a power running game. Is it sexy? No but he is essentially what you need in a back. A strong runner who pushes a pile and protects the QB. If you want a home run threat normally those guys are limited in pass blocking and have durability issues.
    I think, ideally, they would like to have a thunder/lightning combination with Richardson and a backup in the Darren Sproles mold.

  8. #258

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Good lord David Wilson was a first round pick? Holy christ that's the revelation of the thread so far.

    Maybe explaining it like this will be better, because you are hung up on this average draft position, which I think you can poke holes in, much like you can with Richardson's average yards per carry numbers.

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...cedented-trade

    Bill Barnwell touched on some of my concerns in his breakdown of the trade and since he is good at writing, knows more about football than I do, and explains his position better, I'll just post some of his thoughts:



    That is very much a point I have been trying to convey. Richardson's production, to this point, has been replacement level. He goes on:



    To be fair, Barnwell wasn't nearly as sour on the trade as I apparently am. Some of the concerns he raises don't particularly concern me (he mentions possible character concerns, work ethic issues, or an injury we don't know about--I don't really put much stock into that). His final opinion is tilted towards the Browns, but more neutral than my own:
    One question, what is Willis McGahees average with the Browns? There in lies your answer for your quote. He is wrong and for people who watch football a lot can easily refute dumb commentary.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    One question, what is Willis McGahees average with the Browns? There in lies your answer for your quote. He is wrong and for people who watch football a lot can easily refute dumb commentary.
    Through two games? 2.4 yards per carry. Look, if you are going to make up all this **** about Richardson needing time to learn a new system, new plays, and saying that we shouldn't take too much from his first two games with the Colts, then you have to apply that thinking to McGahee too. Just because your opinion differs from his (or mine, or whoever's) doesn't make it dumb. Drawing conclusions from 23 total carries is an awfully small sample size, and I have to assume that if he were averaging 6.3 yards per carry you would immediately discredit that number for that very reason.

  10. #260

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Through two games? 2.4 yards per carry. Look, if you are going to make up all this **** about Richardson needing time to learn a new system, new plays, and saying that we shouldn't take too much from his first two games with the Colts, then you have to apply that thinking to McGahee too. Just because your opinion differs from his (or mine, or whoever's) doesn't make it dumb. Drawing conclusions from 23 total carries is an awfully small sample size.
    The point is they can't just pick anyone up and get that average. It's stupid to suggest it is the point.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    One thing I think will definitely improve going forward is Richardson's presence in the passing game. I think he's only caught one pass so far and can't have seen more than 2-3 total targets, if that. Once he gets a firm grasp of the playbook, I think we will start to see more receptions out of him.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    One question, what is Willis McGahees average with the Browns? There in lies your answer for your quote. He is wrong and for people who watch football a lot can easily refute dumb commentary.
    Last week he averaged .07 more ypc than Trent. Willis' first game was 8 touches, not exactly an enormous sample size.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    The point is they can't just pick anyone up and get that average. It's stupid to suggest it is the point.
    Why is it stupid? That number Richardson put up that Barnwell referenced was league average, or below league average, so he was just going off of that. It stands to reason that if a guy is producing average to below average stats that you could find someone to replace those numbers fairly easily.

  14. #264

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Why is it stupid? That number Richardson put up that Barnwell referenced was league average, or below league average, so he was just going off of that. It stands to reason that if a guy is producing average to below average stats that you could find someone to replace those numbers fairly easily.
    Does he factor in useage? Very few guys can be above average with a bad or mediocre line and get a lot of carries in a one dimensional offense. Look at MJD and Chris Johnson this year.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Does he factor in useage? Very few guys can be above average with a bad or mediocre line and get a lot of carries in a one dimensional offense. Look at MJD and Chris Johnson this year.
    I don't know, I would assume so but I really have no idea.

    What's wrong with Chris Johnson, besides his ypc being down? The Titans are decent and Locker was playing really well before he got hurt last week.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Is our Offensive line really that bad? I mean compared to the "good" lines, is our line really that much worse? This poor line excuse I'm not buying with regards to T Rich. Watching him run, there doesn't seem to be any burst, seems indecisive at times. The top RB's appear to be shot out of a cannon when they run. I don't see this at all from Richardson. Good, tough runner, and will fall forward for positive yards. Beast at the GL, which is an important strength to have. I think what we see is what we will get out of T Rich. Come playoff time, he will be effective churning out tough yards, and I will support the hell out of him
    David "And One" West

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    There's no holes.

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    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    I don't think Richardson's overall YPC average will be above 4.0 even when he "settles in". Partially because of the offensive line, partially because I think he is more of a 3-yards and a cloud of dust type back and partially because he will get all of the short-yardage carries.

    What I do want to see from him though is the ability to get better yardage late in games. This offense should wear down defenses and if over the next few seasons Richardson can average 4.5 (or more) yards a carry and move the chains in the fourth quarter when the Colts are eating clock and closing out games then this trade is a success.

  20. #269
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    I'm just going by what I see. I know the team rushing stats are impressive... I know our line stats are impressive.... but when I'm watching the game, he gets the ball, and he's either hit within 1 sec, or he runs into his lane which is just.... gone. About the only thing I could think of for him is to break protocol and start bouncing it outside or something. But I'd bet that he's following the script, setting up the play action, doing his job.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  21. #270

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    When I watched that last game, whenever Trent ran the ball, I looked for lanes which he could run through, and I had difficulty finding large gaps for him to get through. The one time we had a big hole was when Brown was in the game and he shot that for 50 yards.

    I don't know, he may not be very good, but right now for me it's hard to say because he hasn't been given good opportunities
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  22. #271

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't know, I would assume so but I really have no idea.

    What's wrong with Chris Johnson, besides his ypc being down? The Titans are decent and Locker was playing really well before he got hurt last week.
    Cdash he is just throwing out crap and seeing if it sticks on that blog.

    You can't find guys that do all three things well (run, pass block and catch) and just plug anyone one in.

    Its also improtant to know that if a guy has limitiations such as Turner that he can't catch the defense won't fear the screen or see him as a threat in the passing game so they cheat off of him in those plays.

    I have no doubt Trent is not a home run threat but really what we need is a guy who can be somewhat like Marshawn Lynch. Run throw arm tackles and wear the defense down.

    The point I made with MJD and CJ was that they are average right now becuase they don't have the holes to run through.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Cdash he is just throwing out crap and seeing if it sticks on that blog.

    You can't find guys that do all three things well (run, pass block and catch) and just plug anyone one in.

    Its also improtant to know that if a guy has limitiations such as Turner that he can't catch the defense won't fear the screen or see him as a threat in the passing game so they cheat off of him in those plays.

    I have no doubt Trent is not a home run threat but really what we need is a guy who can be somewhat like Marshawn Lynch. Run throw arm tackles and wear the defense down.

    The point I made with MJD and CJ was that they are average right now becuase they don't have the holes to run through.
    Gamble, he's a professional writer for one of the top sports news outlets in the country. You don't like his opinion on this particular subject, but let's not try to discredit the entire piece because you didn't like some of the points he made.

    He was talking about production, and left the blocking and pass catching out of it from what I understand. Even then, is Richardson really that great at any of the three things you mentioned? So far in the NFL, he hasn't been. It doesn't mean he won't be, but there is plenty of reason to be skeptical at this point 20 games into his career.

    MJD and CJ are average right now because they are past their primes. MJD's situation in Jacksonville is particularly pathetic. That team is a dumpster fire. The point I am making is that great running backs--elite runnings backs--find holes or bounce to the outside or make something out of virtually nothing. Otherwise all the good/great running backs in the league would just be on teams with the best offensive lines. It certainly helps, but it isn't the start and end of the discussion by any means.

  24. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Gamble, he's a professional writer for one of the top sports news outlets in the country. You don't like his opinion on this particular subject, but let's not try to discredit the entire piece because you didn't like some of the points he made.

    He was talking about production, and left the blocking and pass catching out of it from what I understand. Even then, is Richardson really that great at any of the three things you mentioned? So far in the NFL, he hasn't been. It doesn't mean he won't be, but there is plenty of reason to be skeptical at this point 20 games into his career.

    MJD and CJ are average right now because they are past their primes. MJD's situation in Jacksonville is particularly pathetic. That team is a dumpster fire. The point I am making is that great running backs--elite runnings backs--find holes or bounce to the outside or make something out of virtually nothing. Otherwise all the good/great running backs in the league would just be on teams with the best offensive lines. It certainly helps, but it isn't the start and end of the discussion by any means.
    I disagree on MJD, he still has the step but that offensive line is terrible and getting worse mind you with Monroe being traded. CJ2K is a spread running back in a power running scheme. He is a bush type guy, get the ball in space but Tennessee is T-ing it up and running when given opportunities.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    I disagree on MJD, he still has the step but that offensive line is terrible and getting worse mind you with Monroe being traded. CJ2K is a spread running back in a power running scheme. He is a bush type guy, get the ball in space but Tennessee is T-ing it up and running when given opportunities.
    Maybe. It's really hard to tell. The guy has a ton of miles on him, but the team around him is so spectacularly awful that it's hard to really judge him.

  26. #275

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Gamble, he's a professional writer for one of the top sports news outlets in the country. You don't like his opinion on this particular subject, but let's not try to discredit the entire piece because you didn't like some of the points he made.

    He was talking about production, and left the blocking and pass catching out of it from what I understand. Even then, is Richardson really that great at any of the three things you mentioned? So far in the NFL, he hasn't been. It doesn't mean he won't be, but there is plenty of reason to be skeptical at this point 20 games into his career.

    MJD and CJ are average right now because they are past their primes. MJD's situation in Jacksonville is particularly pathetic. That team is a dumpster fire. The point I am making is that great running backs--elite runnings backs--find holes or bounce to the outside or make something out of virtually nothing. Otherwise all the good/great running backs in the league would just be on teams with the best offensive lines. It certainly helps, but it isn't the start and end of the discussion by any means.
    Its already been talked about but I can once again state the points if you like.

    He is an above average pass catcher and an above average pass blocker. For pass catching you can look at Ray Rice arguably one of the best and he averages 7.8 yards per catch. Trent had 7.2 yards per catch. He had 5 drops last year that were catchable balls out of 70 targets . To put that into perspective Vick Ballard had 4 drops on 27 targets.

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