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Thread: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

  1. #351
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Because they run different sets with Donald.

    When they run the ball with Trent, they line up in a two back set usually with two TE's. The offense also breaks out their flag pole, and places it right behind the line with a flag that reads "Here comes the run!"
    When they run with Donald, it's usually out of a spread formation. 3 WR's, 1 TE, 1 back. The defense doesn't get to see the big red flag staring at them, so they're spread out more and don't get to stack the box.


    Donald also has great change of pace. He can get up to full speed very quickly, allowing him to bust through a hole that is getting shut down. Trent is a little slower, and much bigger. But it's pretty easy to see the difference, when you start looking for the different formations each back lines up with.

    EDIT: Which is why most of us on here have been calling for Pep to loosen up the playbook a bit. I get the idea of a power running game, and I like it to an extent, but unless you have a big strong offensive line it can't be the default running attack.
    These are some solid points and telegraphing our play from the I formation has been the case in the past too. That's why I was blaming Pep.

    But during the last game, he at last changed the tune a bit and we passed the ball out of the power formation and we run from the single back formation. Richardson still didn't get the yards.
    Also, you are a running back and you don't have burst. Isn't that a big minus by itself?

    All I'm saying is there are some situations that certainly don't help the team. I get that and I agree but if no one puts a bit of blame on Richardson already is just wrong. I said I am willing to give a definite judgement at the end of the season but he'd better start producing. Starting from this Sunday would be welcomed.
    Read on Colts Authority today the time he has spent in Indy has surpassed already the time you spend in the training camp and the preseason.
    Last edited by Johanvil; 11-01-2013 at 03:31 PM.

  2. #352
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    A specific question was asked and a specific answer was given. It should stay right there, instead of trying to take it further. If you disagree there's a difference in play calling, then say so, and not try to take what I said and make it more.
    I asked a simple question and you are evading it. I didn't twist anything you said. You and KM are blaming the line and the play calling, but none of the blame seems to fall on Richardson's shoulders.

    Edit: For the record, I think the line, the play calling, and Richardson all are partially responsible here.
    Last edited by cdash; 11-01-2013 at 03:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I asked a simple question and you are evading it. I didn't twist anything you said. You and KM are blaming the line and the play calling, but none of the blame seems to fall on Richardson's shoulders.

    Edit: For the record, I think the line, the play calling, and Richardson all are partially responsible here.
    I would me pointing out that I didn't say it, would have answered the question that I didn't think it, hence the reason why I didn't say it.


    I have put some blame on Trent. I've said in the past that he's trying to run the specific plays to where they are going, instead of taking some freedom on finding another hole. The run plays called with him are for him to mostly stay in the A and B gap, hardly ever bouncing him outside. Trent should break the play, and just bounce outside himself when it gets shut down inside. It's a fimiliarity issue, which is a problem but not something I'm going to bust his balls over just a few weeks after he's been here. If it's like this way at the end of the season, or even next year, then Trent will get more and more of the blame.
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    These are some solid points and telegraphing our play from the I formation has been the case in the past too. That's why I was blaming Pep.

    But during the last game, he at last changed the tune a bit and we passed the ball out of the power formation and we run from the single back formation. Richardson still didn't get the yards.
    Also, you are a running back and you don't have burst. Isn't that a big minus by itself?
    I didn't say he didn't have a burst, I said Donald Brown gets up to speed quicker. Trent isn't slow by any means, but Donald seems like he can go from standing still to full speed within a few steps, which is why he's a pretty good change of pace back. Emitt Smith by relative standards was a pretty slow back, but he's the #1 rusher of all time. (He only had a 4.55 40 time, which is a full tenth of a second slower than Trent, which is a pretty large difference when it comes to sprints especially short sprints)

    I noticed them passing more out of the formation too, but I don't know if it was just a wrinkle they broke out because they had to score points against Denver, or if they've just been setting it up for scouting purposes and will use it more as the season goes on.
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  6. #355
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    I didn't say you did. I think he hasn't and asked your thoughts on it. As for following his blocker too much, yes he does that. Remains to be seen if he doesn't see the gap at all or because he's relative new to the team, he doesn't want to deviate from the play or he trusts too much his lineman.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Gotcha. Trent actually has pretty good speed. Here are links to the previous years RB 40 times. (Trent ran a 4.55, but it was at Alamaba's pro day as he didn't do anything at the combine due to injury)

    http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/2/2...ard-dash-bench

    http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-dra...-back-40-times

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/02...running-backs/

    He's in the fastest upper half, so he's on the higher end of average. He's probably one of the faster big backs out there.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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  9. #357
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    yeah this trade is starting to look like the first big miss by Grigson. Actually, maybe 2nd, with the DHB signing

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Not good no matter what anybody says grigson and co will no doubt be disappointed in the return thus far.
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

  11. #359
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    Sigh.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    I thought he played pretty well last night...
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  13. #361
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Natston View Post
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    I thought he played pretty well last night...
    how awesome is Donald Brown then? Trent Richardson sucks and this trade was monumentally bad.

  14. #362

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    how awesome is Donald Brown then? Trent Richardson sucks and this trade was monumentally bad.
    LOL ok...

    Brown was never bad at running the ball. He was bad at pass protection and staying on the field without injuries but he wasn't a bad back when healthy. I also wouldn't under estimate the power of a contract year which is why I believe he is running a lot harder this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Natston View Post
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    I thought he played pretty well last night...
    I did too overall and for some reason Pep went away from running after the Colts went down 14. We were actually moving running well against them in the first half.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 11-04-2013 at 12:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    LOL ok...

    Brown was never bad at running the ball. He was bad at pass protection and staying on the field without injuries but he wasn't a bad back when healthy. I also wouldn't under estimate the power of a contract year which is why I believe he is running a lot harder this year.



    I did too overall and for some reason Pep went away from running after the Colts went down 14. We were actually moving running well against them in the first half.
    He WAS bad at pass pro. Now he's pretty damn good, narrative be damned. And he was a healthy scratch pretty often last year, look it up. I don't know why, but he was in someone's doghouse and whomever's it was was stupid. We went away from running because running the football doesn't matter in today's NFL. We all saw what happened when we had no choice but to go away from the "BUILD THE MONSTER!" idiocy. Which is why trading for/drafting a 1st round RB is stupid. This has gone round and round in this thread, people are stuck in their beliefs, but this trade was terrible. We had a better RB on the roster in Brown (despite Peyton yelling at him once 4 years ago), that 1st rounder would be MASSIVELY more valuable spent on a WR/LB/interior OL than on a RB that probably shouldn't get a 2nd contract from us.

    Brown's easily the best RB we've had since Addai. But there's a lot of people that think Addai sucked too so whatever.

  16. #364

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    FWIW these were the plays ran for Trent.

    1st Qtr
    2nd and 10 at HOU 30 T.Richardson up the middle to HST 30 for no gain
    1st and 10 at IND 16 T.Richardson left end pushed ob at IND 23 for 7 yards
    2nd and 3 at IND 23 T.Richardson up the middle to IND 27 for 4 yards
    1st and 10 at IND 27 T.Richardson right guard to IND 30 for 3 yards
    2nd and 7 at IND 30 T.Richardson right guard to IND 33 for 3 yards

    2nd Qtr
    1st and 10 at IND 39 T.Richardson right tackle to IND 44 for 5 yards

    3rd Qtr
    No runs

    4th Qtr
    1st and 10 at IND 16 T.Richardson up the middle to IND 15 for -1 yards
    2nd and 11 at IND 15 T.Richardson up the middle to IND 14 for -1 yards

    Richardson also had 2 catches (that were short dump offs) for 33 yards (or 16.5 yard average)

    2 outside runs 12 yards (6 YPC)
    6 Inside runs 8 yards (1.3 YPC)
    2 short catches at almost all YAC 33 yards (16.5 YPC almost all YAC)
    This is a quote from Pep.

    "I have to do a better job of finding ways to get Trent out in space," Hamilton said. "I have to do a better job coming up with schemes that not only give our offensive line a chance to be successful, but of course create holes for Trent and create schemes that compliment his wealth of talent. That's one of the things that we spent time as an offensive staff looking at during the bye week."
    So yes the stats support not running into the teeth of the defense because we don't have the talent on the Oline to support that. I guess its reassuring that Pep atleast realizes that running backs need space to run but I doubt he goes away from his predictable play calling any time soon with Trent.

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  18. #365
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    He WAS bad at pass pro. Now he's pretty damn good, narrative be damned.
    But has he really gotten better, or does it just look like he's better because Luck is back there instead of Manning? If you had Manning back there and the protection collapsed, it was a disaster that caused Manning to curse on live television. With Luck who can actually move in and out of the pocket, not so much.

  19. #366
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Pep's wrong. I'm discouraged that he's wasting time trying to find a way to run the ball, regardless of which back gets the touches. 70/30 pass/run, that's what I want, no handoffs unless it's 4 yards or less or you're killing clock. That's what wins.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    But has he really gotten better, or does it just look like he's better because Luck is back there instead of Manning? If you had Manning back there and the protection collapsed, it was a disaster that caused Manning to curse on live television. With Luck who can actually move in and out of the pocket, not so much.
    WHAT?! Luck's great in the pocket, but seriously, you're going to tell me Peyton CREATED sacks? You're insane. Peyton has the best pocket awareness of all time and made historically shitshow OL's look average.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    ...you're going to tell me Peyton CREATED sacks?
    No that's not what I said at all actually. What I implied is that on a Manning passing play that required Donald Brown to block a man it was nearly always a disaster that ended with Peyton being rushed. With Luck, it doesn't matter if DB misses his block because Luck can actually make plays with his feet when he needs to and doesn't get rattled. I simply asked if Donald looks better because he's gotten better, or does he look better in part because of Luck not needing him like Manning did. Not sure where you got that I said Peyton created sacks when DB was on the field.

  22. #369

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    He WAS bad at pass pro. Now he's pretty damn good, narrative be damned. And he was a healthy scratch pretty often last year, look it up. I don't know why, but he was in someone's doghouse and whomever's it was was stupid. We went away from running because running the football doesn't matter in today's NFL. We all saw what happened when we had no choice but to go away from the "BUILD THE MONSTER!" idiocy.
    Which is why trading for/drafting a 1st round RB is stupid
    . This has gone round and round in this thread, people are stuck in their beliefs, but this trade was terrible. We had a better RB on the roster in Brown (despite Peyton yelling at him once 4 years ago), that 1st rounder would be MASSIVELY more valuable spent on a WR/LB/interior OL than on a RB that probably shouldn't get a 2nd contract from us.

    Brown's easily the best RB we've had since Addai. But there's a lot of people that think Addai sucked too so whatever.
    So we had a better RB on the roster but we still shouldn't have drafted him in the first round? Got it..

    Donald was hurt the majority of the 2012 season. He tore his knee cartilage on the last play of the Green Bay game and had to get his knee scoped to which the Colts would eventually put him on IR after he couldn't make a successful comeback.

    We can talk offensive philosophies all you want but I largely go with the notion that a good run game is essential to a dynasty type team. I think history, even recent history would support that but I do agree that a wide reciever would have been nice. YOu can go back to my draft post and see that I liked Marvin Jones and many other wr's for the last 3 years but that doesn't erase how we got to where we are.

    The Colts don't do this deal if Vick doesn't get hurt. We did it simply because Donald has an injury past and Bradshaw even had a longer one. The deal was actually perfectly timed and I disagree with the notion that we could of picked up anyone and still did well. IF the Colts picked up Brandon Jacobs like some on here suggested we would still be without a RB besides Brown. Willis McGahee also got banged up in October and his 1.5 ypc against Baltimore isn't reassuring either.

    I still go back though that a first round pick is completely reasonable for a RB without injury concerns. Guys like Eddie Lacy ( a guy who I wanted to draft with a first round pick) or Arian Foster who went undrafted becuase of character concerns drop in value either due to injuries or because they are knuckle heads.

    What the ADP does show though is that teams do not think like fans do. They still value rb's nearly as much as LT's in this league so sorry if I don't jump on board to the notion that a running game doesn't matter anymore. It does for the simple reason that it complements the passing game and schematically opens up big plays. To say it doesn't is to say that play action passing shouldn't work in the NFL anymore since no one should respect the running game. Its completely bogus and I just think its fans talking out their rear ends to sound smarter than the coaches that put 80 to 100 hours a week into the actually game plan.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 11-04-2013 at 01:11 PM.

  23. #370
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    When Ballard is back next year, he should be the #1 back on the depth chart.

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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    The only thing that confuses the heck out of me is when DBrown is in at 1st and goal and Richardson is standing along the sidelines. Richardson hasn't had the big game breakers but he sure doesn't get stood up like Donald when it comes to the goal line.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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  27. #372

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Pep's wrong. I'm discouraged that he's wasting time trying to find a way to run the ball, regardless of which back gets the touches. 70/30 pass/run, that's what I want, no handoffs unless it's 4 yards or less or you're killing clock. That's what wins.
    OK now you are trolling..

    Look at the bottom 15 teams that pass 60% or less to the teams that pass 60% or more. 1st column is this years numbers.

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct
    1 Atlanta 69.96% 69.59% 58.33% 71.14% 68.80% 62.80%
    2 Pittsburgh 67.13% 65.48% 72.60% 62.43% 69.55% 59.73%
    3 Cleveland 66.78% 64.89% 58.82% 63.74% 70.82% 60.32%
    4 Dallas 66.61% 68.56% 85.71% 67.00% 66.13% 66.16%
    5 NY Giants 65.22% 54.82% 56.34% 67.92% 63.27% 57.75%
    6 Jacksonville 65.17% 65.50% 64.29% 68.31% 63.41% 63.98%
    7 New Orleans 64.17% 66.32% 80.30% 61.71% 66.67% 65.32%
    8 Miami 64.16% 57.84% 50.82% 65.82% 62.69% 55.19%
    9 Arizona 62.60% 62.50% 41.18% 58.78% 66.40% 65.39%
    10 Detroit 62.59% 63.72% 62.82% 60.27% 65.25% 66.29%
    11 Baltimore 61.92% 63.49% 68.66% 52.91% 66.76% 55.60%
    12 Minnesota 61.73% 65.36% 57.35% 65.38% 59.54% 51.55%
    13 St Louis 61.31% 54.77% 53.62% 56.34% 68.33% 59.08%
    14 Chicago 60.38% 59.65% 57.69% 58.54% 62.92% 52.95%
    15 Tampa Bay 60.08% 61.54% 41.54% 62.78% 57.36% 58.73%
    16 Denver 59.72% 62.95% 57.50% 57.58% 63.30% 55.65%
    17 Houston 59.33% 55.38% 51.47% 58.96% 59.77% 54.11%
    18 San Diego 58.59% 53.96% 74.60% 56.48% 59.82% 58.40%
    19 Washington 58.09% 48.37% 44.44% 57.44% 58.80% 48.28%
    20 Cincinnati 57.87% 61.39% 62.37% 53.26% 61.32% 58.08%
    21 New England 57.66% 54.68% 50.70% 53.41% 62.99% 57.03%
    22 Indianapolis 57.31% 64.97% 75.86% 56.25% 58.44% 60.70%
    23 Kansas City 57.31% 56.48% 57.41% 57.91% 56.54% 50.74%
    24 Green Bay 56.24% 50.49% 42.47% 57.00% 55.68% 58.80%
    25 Philadelphia 55.50% 65.26% 57.89% 65.10% 48.41% 61.72%
    26 Tennessee 54.91% 60.00% 42.62% 62.89% 46.50% 60.50%
    27 Oakland 54.25% 55.61% 64.13% 52.11% 58.06% 63.57%
    28 Buffalo 52.88% 55.92% 50.65% 46.52% 60.92% 55.04%
    29 NY Jets 52.79% 47.17% 37.93% 48.70% 58.61% 52.22%
    30 Carolina 50.00% 48.42% 53.52% 43.25% 56.30% 53.24%
    31 Seattle 48.01% 50.30% 42.62% 42.80% 52.76% 45.76%
    32 San Francisco 44.21% 37.77% 30.91% 47.39% 40.85% 48.66%
    But carry on.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 11-04-2013 at 01:24 PM.

  28. #373

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    When Ballard is back next year, he should be the #1 back on the depth chart.
    I actually think Bradshaw is better than Ballard.

  29. #374
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    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I actually think Bradshaw is better than Ballard.
    I'm not sure Bradshaw is back next year. But yeah, Ballard, Bradshaw and Brown are all better than Richardson.

  30. #375

    Default Re: Trent Richardson to Colts for 1st round pick

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm not sure Bradshaw is back next year. But yeah, Ballard, Bradshaw and Brown are all better than Richardson.
    You guys are cracking me up. There is so much chum in the water its hard to take you guys seriously.

    Lets just say I will take the guy who doesn't have a serious injury history.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 11-04-2013 at 01:55 PM.

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