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Thread: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So now Lance is "one dimensional"? Lol, Lance is probably the most dimensional player on the team, can dribble, can pass, can create his own shot, can post up, etc,etc,etc..
    Passing and dribbling aren't scoring attributes.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I actually think that Hill has the most dimensions to his game within the team. Lance isn't a good shooter, and is inconsistent when it comes to creating his own shot in the halfcourt.
    Hill is our jack of all trades. He is good at everything, but not great at anything.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    The choice hinges on two factors: Granger's health status

    and

    whether the overall offense / defense is better with a:

    younger, quicker player who is more of a facilitator but is more likely to make mistakes born of aggression on both ends of the court

    or

    an older, slower player who is a far more consistent scoring threat from the perimeter and is less of a facilitator but probably will be unable to cover as much ground defensively due to a lack of lateral quickness and may prove to be more of a defensive liability because of it

    For me, Lance starts because the overall performance of the team on both ends of the floor is probably better, while adding Granger to the subs gives Granger huge advantages for scoring from all areas of the court against clearly inferior competition while not exposing his probable defensive weaknesses nearly as much. Granger and Scola with Copeland would likely provide a lineup that would outscore the opposition more often than not regardless of their defensive performance.

    It is wonderful to even be having such a discussion, though! We've come a long way, baby!!!!!

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    The choice hinges on two factors: Granger's health status

    and

    whether the overall offense / defense is better with a:

    younger, quicker player who is more of a facilitator but is more likely to make mistakes born of aggression on both ends of the court

    or

    an older, slower player who is a far more consistent scoring threat from the perimeter and is less of a facilitator but probably will be unable to cover as much ground defensively due to a lack of lateral quickness and may prove to be more of a defensive liability because of it

    For me, Lance starts because the overall performance of the team on both ends of the floor is probably better, while adding Granger to the subs gives Granger huge advantages for scoring from all areas of the court against clearly inferior competition while not exposing his probable defensive weaknesses nearly as much. Granger and Scola with Copeland would likely provide a lineup that would outscore the opposition more often than not regardless of their defensive performance.

    It is wonderful to even be having such a discussion, though! We've come a long way, baby!!!!!
    It is too early to say he will be a liability on defense. Pre-injury Granger was a very capable defender, sadly he didn't always hustle on defense. It is too early to make any kind of accurate assumption to how Granger will play. It could be he plays just as well post-injury as pre-injury, but it is also possible he is a shell of his former self.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Granger's health will dictate a lot of this. But really, I don't like the thought of Paul being pushed further out on the perimeter to guard quick SG's...when he is so effective on the glass and help defense. I think a big reason we were so effective defensively is that Paul played his natural position on defense...which is SF.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    It is too early to say he will be a liability on defense. Pre-injury Granger was a very capable defender, sadly he didn't always hustle on defense. It is too early to make any kind of accurate assumption to how Granger will play. It could be he plays just as well post-injury as pre-injury, but it is also possible he is a shell of his former self.
    Lance is a good but not great defensive player. Pre-injured Granger is a better defender then Lance especially at the 3 where he plays and PG is a better defender at the 2 then Lance. I don't see our defense doing anything but getting better as long as Granger is healthy.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Granger's health will dictate a lot of this. But really, I don't like the thought of Paul being pushed further out on the perimeter to guard quick SG's...when he is so effective on the glass and help defense. I think a big reason we were so effective defensively is that Paul played his natural position on defense...which is SF.
    Not really. Paul will be guarding the other teams main perimeter threat regardless of them being a 2 or 3. Paul is better guarding smaller quicker players than he is guarding bigger, stronger SF's who just take him inside. Also when Danny was our starter two years ago, we were still one of the top rebounding and defensive teams in the league. (and that was with DC starting for most of the year)

    Also though Lance is a decent defender, it's not as if he is a lockdown defender by any means that hum going to the bench would hurt our team tremendously on defense
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 09-16-2013 at 12:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    It shocks me how underrated Lance is here.

    Whether he starts this year or not, we need to get him on a long term contract.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    It shocks me how underrated Lance is here.

    Whether he starts this year or not, we need to get him on a long term contract.
    I read the same thread and it shocks me how over rated he is. I see a good player who is inconsistent but shows flashes of great play and flashes of poor play.
    He averaged 8.8 ppg, 3.9 boards, and 2.8 assist in 29 minutes as a starter and was a good defender. I don't know how calling him good can be underrating him. Not every player has to be an all star to be good. What I don't understand is how the guy who led this team in scoring for 5 years is automatically a lesser player then Lance at the age of 30 just because he's coming back from an injury and knee surgery. Danny at 40 should be able to average more then 8 ppg and defend the post better then Lance did last year and that's not a slam on Lance that's just how good Granger is.
    It's not reasonable to just assume that Lance is going to grow that much in 1 summer and Danny will take that many steps backward.
    Having said that I agree with you that we need to lock Lance down to a long term contract if we can but only if it reflects his current level of production which should be in the neighborhood of Ian's contract.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I read the same thread and it shocks me how over rated he is. I see a good player who is inconsistent but shows flashes of great play and flashes of poor play.
    He averaged 8.8 ppg, 3.9 boards, and 2.8 assist in 29 minutes as a starter and was a good defender. I don't know how calling him good can be underrating him. Not every player has to be an all star to be good. What I don't understand is how the guy who led this team in scoring for 5 years is automatically a lesser player then Lance at the age of 30 just because he's coming back from an injury and knee surgery. Danny at 40 should be able to average more then 8 ppg and defend the post better then Lance did last year and that's not a slam on Lance that's just how good Granger is.
    It's not reasonable to just assume that Lance is going to grow that much in 1 summer and Danny will take that many steps backward.
    Having said that I agree with you that we need to lock Lance down to a long term contract if we can but only if it reflects his current level of production which should be in the neighborhood of Ian's contract.
    I think some people are falling for the old binary, if you don't think he should start over Granger you must think he stinks, when that isn't what people are saying.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    It shocks me how underrated Lance is here.

    Whether he starts this year or not, we need to get him on a long term contract.
    Some people are "underrating" him because they feel he is stealing the shine of their boy Danny Granger, I don't think is coincidence that Danny Granger fanboys are the ones that usually crap on Lance and Paul George.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I read the same thread and it shocks me how over rated he is. I see a good player who is inconsistent but shows flashes of great play and flashes of poor play.
    He averaged 8.8 ppg, 3.9 boards, and 2.8 assist in 29 minutes as a starter and was a good defender. I don't know how calling him good can be underrating him. Not every player has to be an all star to be good. What I don't understand is how the guy who led this team in scoring for 5 years is automatically a lesser player then Lance at the age of 30 just because he's coming back from an injury and knee surgery. Danny at 40 should be able to average more then 8 ppg and defend the post better then Lance did last year and that's not a slam on Lance that's just how good Granger is.
    It's not reasonable to just assume that Lance is going to grow that much in 1 summer and Danny will take that many steps backward.
    Having said that I agree with you that we need to lock Lance down to a long term contract if we can but only if it reflects his current level of production which should be in the neighborhood of Ian's contract.
    See Tmac, Agent0, Michael Redd and many other players so you can start to understand, it also looks like you are making the knee injury look like nothing, "just because he is coming back from an injury and knee surgery"? yeah "just a knee surgery"...

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    See Tmac, Agent0, Michael Redd and many other players so you can start to understand, it also looks like you are making the knee injury look like nothing, "just because he is coming back from an injury and knee surgery"? yeah "just a knee surgery"...
    And David West... oh wait.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    And David West... oh wait.
    It's a matter of degree. An ACL tear is an injury that happens often to pro athletes and recreational players alike, and it has a fairly predictable recovery. It's not completely predictable (no major knee injury is), but players coming back from it have a pretty consistent recovery time and similar amount (usually small) of loss of ability.

    Granger's injury is much more mysterious. It's why there isn't one consistent treatment plan. And while they are hopeful about the surgery fixing the problem, that won't be known until he starts playing consistently again.

    It also has a wide range of outcomes. Granger could be the same player he was two years ago or even better (if the knee has been bothering him for a while) almost as soon as he steps on the court. Or he could never be close to the same player again. It's really all up in the air, and is much less certain that the effects of an ACL tear.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    And David West... oh wait.
    Lol I love when people bring David West as an example, more proof that some don't know what Danny Granger has or they know but are just refusing to look at reality.

    Somebody should tell Brandon Roy not to worry because David West recovered just fine lol
    Last edited by vnzla81; 09-16-2013 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Some people are "underrating" him because they feel he is stealing the shine of their boy Danny Granger, I don't think is coincidence that Danny Granger fanboys are the ones that usually crap on Lance and Paul George.
    Listing honest, unbiased limitations of both players isn't "crapping on them".

    Danny Granger isn't a great enough player to make anyone biased enough to "crap" on the best player on the team and important young piece of our team. I think some posters just happen to appreciate what he brings and has brought to the table throughout his career.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Lol I love when people bring David West as an example, more proof that some don't know what Danny Granger has or they know but are just refusing to look at reality.

    Somebody should tell Brandon Roy not to worry because David West recovered just fine lol
    I see it's once again time to trot this out.

    It is pointless to discuss Danny Granger in any capacity with you because anyone who doesn't fall into your worldview that Danny is a useless pointless washed up never was really that good anyway of a player is a "fanboy" so instead of wasting valuable time and effort I just present you the following



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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I see it's once again time to trot this out.

    It is pointless to discuss Danny Granger in any capacity with you because anyone who doesn't fall into your worldview that Danny is a useless pointless washed up never was really that good anyway of a player is a "fanboy" so instead of wasting valuable time and effort I just present you the following
    I always though Danny WAS a good player but just because I did not think he was the next Reggie Miller didn't mean that I thought he sucked, Danny WAS a good thing for the team but his time has passed.

    By the way what kind of music are you going to play when the White horse doesn't show up?

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Listing honest, unbiasedlimitations of both players isn't "crapping on them".

    Danny Granger isn't a great enough player to make anyone biased enough to "crap" on the best player on the team and important young piece of our team. I think some posters just happen to appreciate what he brings and has brought to the table throughout his career.
    Unbiased? sure....

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Lol I love when people bring David West as an example, more proof that some don't know what Danny Granger has or they know but are just refusing to look at reality.

    Somebody should tell Brandon Roy not to worry because David West recovered just fine lol
    So David West and his torn ACL isn't a good example, but yet Michael Redd with his twice torn ACL/MCL is a good example. Somebody should tell Danny Granger to worry beause Michael Redd wasn't just fine lolzzz
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So David West and his torn ACL isn't a good example, but yet Michael Redd with his twice torn ACL/MCL is a good example. Somebody should tell Danny Granger to worry beause Michael Redd wasn't just fine lolzzz
    Exactly. If no one has ever come back from this surgery, why would they bother? Didn't Kenyon Martin have basically this same surgery? I'd say that his game is much more dependent on athleticism than Granger's.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I see it's once again time to trot this out.

    It is pointless to discuss Danny Granger in any capacity with you because anyone who doesn't fall into your worldview that Danny is a useless pointless washed up never was really that good anyway of a player is a "fanboy" so instead of wasting valuable time and effort I just present you the following

    Why was I summoned?
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I read the same thread and it shocks me how over rated he is. I see a good player who is inconsistent but shows flashes of great play and flashes of poor play.
    I am saying underrated because people act like they don't care whether or not he is apart of the future. He showed flashes of brilliance last year, yes he made mistakes too, but the guy was just 22 last season. His potential is enormous, you don't let that walk away.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I am saying underrated because people act like they don't care whether or not he is apart of the future. He showed flashes of brilliance last year, yes he made mistakes too, but the guy was just 22 last season. His potential is enormous, you don't let that walk away.
    Which is what makes this conversation so intriguing. The granger arguments have to assume he will be healthy and the lance arguments have to assume he will get better because any granger that's going to come back is going to be at least as good as lance was last season.

    Adjust the levels of greatness a bit, and this is almost exactly the same decision irsay made with regards to manning/luck. The only thing is that we have a year. Which is great for fans. I doubt both will disappoint, and if they are both great next season Bird can't really make a bad decision. Because the next season ppl will be geared into how great the team is doing at that point.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    And David West... oh wait.
    Or D Wade with his 2 knee surgeries followed by multiple all star seasons. I'm not dismissing Granger's knee surgery but it doesn't make sense to just assume that he's finished at the age of 30 when most players are at their prime.

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