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Thread: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBo_Lamar View Post
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    How about starting both Lance AND Danny (povided he is healthy)
    then have PG come off the bench for either one of them??

    Paul George would give the bench that offensive boost that it needs so badly.
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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    When Lance goes for 20 once in every 10 games people think "Wow, look at that young player, he could be a star". Granger used to average 20 on every given night
    Granger, a volume shooter with a lower fg percentage than Lance, was given the green light to try and score 20 every night. Lance was rarely given that opportunity, in fact I don't know if he ever was. He was just so good some nights he happened to score 20.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Lance's FG% would plummet if he was given free reign to shoot.


    I've been a Lance defender since day one, I've always though he had talent coming out of his ears, but he's not a scorer like Danny nor should he be.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Granger, a volume shooter with a lower fg percentage than Lance, was given the green light to try and score 20 every night. Lance was rarely given that opportunity, in fact I don't know if he ever was. He was just so good some nights he happened to score 20.
    Danny's FG% may be lower, but his TS% is higher, by a lot. Although Lance does have a better eFG% than Granger's last full season, but Lance's eFG% is similar to where Granger was when he received similar attention as Lance did last season.



    P.S. based on regular season statistics Granger is a slightly better rebounder than Lance. They are similar on defensive boards, but Granger is better on offensive.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 09-11-2013 at 01:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    People are living in the past if they think Granger will be better than Lance this year. We will not see the same Danny Granger as we did pre-injury...ever again. Not just because of the knee but because he's moving out of his prime years. He is still a very good shooter. But defensively, folks, he's not going to be as good. ..and he wasn't that good pre-injury.
    How ironic is it that you make this statement with David West's picture under your name?

    Yes. If Danny has to play with crutches under his arm, then Lance will be the starter. If not, and if Danny is back to the same Danny he was before, then Danny has proven he is the better player by far at this point. I think Lance will continue to get better, but he is no where near Danny's level. IF he somehow makes a huge stride this summer, then that's great but I'm not going to assume that is going to happen. That's not fair to Lance. I'm also not going to assume that Danny is suddenly going to be a worthless player, because he has proven otherwise and it wouldn't be fair to him.

    We don't know how good someone is going to be, just how good they have been recently. Again, see David West as an example.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    but he's not a scorer like Danny nor should he be.
    True. Other than being the top scorer in the history of New York City, he has no track record for being a scorer. Nor should he even consider such a thing.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    True. Other than being the top scorer in the history of New York City, he has no track record for being a scorer. Nor should he even consider such a thing.
    Yep, comparing high school and the NBA is a greatt exercise.

    The Pacers should call up Ryan Creighton, as he's #2 on the list and only 150pts behind Lance. They're the same age, so we'd have 3 great young players in Lance/PG/Mr Creighton to build around.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Just because some think that Danny is not what he was does not mean the hate him. And just because they don't think he was the main reason we made it to the 6th game with the Heat in 11-12 does not mean they think he is worthless.

    Just because some think Lance is inconsistent and out of control at times does not mean they think he is pointless.

    Your player is your player. And he doesn't have to be my player to be your player. This is the biggest debate right now. And I love that it is, considering the Tyler vs. McBob, JOB haters vs JOB apologists, and My Draft Prospect vs. the drafted player debates over the last few years.

    THis is a breath of fresh air.
    Last edited by Major Cold; 09-11-2013 at 03:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    How ironic is it that you make this statement with David West's picture under your name?

    Yes. If Danny has to play with crutches under his arm, then Lance will be the starter. If not, and if Danny is back to the same Danny he was before, then Danny has proven he is the better player by far at this point. I think Lance will continue to get better, but he is no where near Danny's level. IF he somehow makes a huge stride this summer, then that's great but I'm not going to assume that is going to happen. That's not fair to Lance. I'm also not going to assume that Danny is suddenly going to be a worthless player, because he has proven otherwise and it wouldn't be fair to him.

    We don't know how good someone is going to be, just how good they have been recently. Again, see David West as an example.
    Granger is a wing and will no longer have the same foot speed. He will not only have to move to get open shots, he will have to move to defend athletic SF's. David West's game doesn't suffer from that. He can guard the post while standing straight up...not even moving. We'll see how this turns out. I think Granger will have taken a solid step backward and Lance will be the more effective player. This does, of course, depend on Lance making some degree of improvement but it's not going to take much. With this team...George, West, Hibbert and Hill...Danny will not be scoring anything close to the amount he scored in the past....and Lance, at just 22...the year Danny was still in college...his numbers will go up.
    LeWade are going down.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Granger is a wing and will no longer have the same foot speed. He will not only have to move to get open shots, he will have to move to defend athletic SF's. David West's game doesn't suffer from that. He can guard the post while standing straight up...not even moving. We'll see how this turns out. I think Granger will have taken a solid step backward and Lance will be the more effective player. This does, of course, depend on Lance making some degree of improvement but it's not going to take much. With this team...George, West, Hibbert and Hill...Danny will not be scoring anything close to the amount he scored in the past....and Lance, at just 22...the year Danny was still in college...his numbers will go up.
    Even assuming lost speed, Danny should still be our 4th best post scorer and either 2nd or 3rd best perimeter scorer. If you have 1 play you're going to run and Danny's healthy, I'm still going his way for the shot over Paul George. And that includes either an iso from the wing or a three point shot created by Hill, George, or West. Until the playoffs, Paul George was devastatingly bad in high pressure situations. At one point he was shooting like 10% with the chance to tie or go for the lead in the last 30 seconds.

    So unless Paul George is suddenly a polished offensive player next season, there are actually situations in which Granger should be given precedence over Paul. How many arguments can you make for Lance over Paul? Lance's strengths are, for the most part, also Paul George's strengths. Though Paul as a whole does everything better than Lance but finish at the rim (and he's improving at that).

    Offensively, with our inside three-headed monster of Hibbert, West, and Scola, we are not a running team. We run when it's conducive to getting easy baskets but if it's not there we run our offense and play slow inside-out ball. Offensively, what's more useful to that form of offense--a 6'8" sweet shooting forward or an (admittedly big) guard who seeks to push the tempo and in the offense waits around for wide open 3 pointers or backdoor cuts while his man helps off of him a ton? The change-of-pace role for Lance would be dynamic with him coming off the bench. A scoring option or two would be gone and the team would be better designed for running/playing aggressive defense.

    Offensively Granger has a pretty clear advantage. Defensively, Lance probably gets it. As far as chemistry, there's no real difference IMO because they've both been on the same team core for 3 years. Now all of this assumes Granger is healthy; you can't have a conversation about them without it.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 09-12-2013 at 08:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Which will all go away if Danny proves on the court that he deserves the job.
    Lol it doesn't matter what Danny does, pacergeek among other big time Lance fans will never be on board with Danny starting and Lance coming off the bench.

    Honestly I'm just ready for the season to start so we can see if Danny is healthy and this discussion will have current stats, situations and actual facts to backup everyone's argument on both sides of the coin.

    But I do feel that if Danny somehow starts and finishes games--there will be an uproar from various posters as to the reasons why he's starting with "Danny being the better player" not among them very often.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    I'm glad we have a competent coaching staff to make these decisions.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    I'm glad we have a competent coaching staff to make these decisions.
    You mean "a coaching staff considered to be competent until they make the opposite decision from the one <particular poster> wants."
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Even if Granger is healthy and still the better player I'm not sure he fits best in the starting line-up. Lance played an important role last year as a solid SG defender and facilitator. Roles that Granger simply cannot mimic. I think, for this team, a healthy Granger would be best in the Manu role coming off the bench, but still playing big minutes and finishing games.

    We don't have Pop though so Granger starts. No need to rock the boat.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Even if Granger is healthy and still the better player I'm not sure he fits best in the starting line-up. Lance played an important role last year as a solid SG defender and facilitator. Roles that Granger simply cannot mimic. I think, for this team, a healthy Granger would be best in the Manu role coming off the bench, but still playing big minutes and finishing games.

    We don't have Pop though so Granger starts. No need to rock the boat.
    Manu comes off the bench so he can play and be a primary ballhandler when tony parker isn't playing during the middle of games. Granger is mostly a jump shooter, so I don't see how granger would fill that role at all.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 09-12-2013 at 07:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Even if Granger is healthy and still the better player I'm not sure he fits best in the starting line-up. Lance played an important role last year as a solid SG defender and facilitator. Roles that Granger simply cannot mimic. I think, for this team, a healthy Granger would be best in the Manu role coming off the bench, but still playing big minutes and finishing games.

    We don't have Pop though so Granger starts. No need to rock the boat.
    Though I agree that Lance was a good facilitator within the offense, it's not like he did it at an elite level or even a good enough level to be the reason he remains a starter. Out starting lineup is in badly need of another consistent shooter. Teams would often leave lance open, and if he was hitting his outside shot we were fine, but it was often a hit or miss type of situation.

    I actually believe Lance would be better as the 6th man ball handler that you described manu to be. All the great 6th man scorers are ball handlers who get themselves hot. This isn't Danny. And though Lance isn't a big scorer, the few times he would have big scoring stats were when he could make plays in the open court, which is something our bench is much more likely to do as opposed to our starters.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    I agree. Granger has always been the man for the job.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    I think a lot of people look at the development of guys like Paul George and Roy Hibbert and then look at Lance's potential and have already anointed him our next homegrown star. Now im not saying he wont, because he very well could be. But I feel it's just as likely that he's a very strong and entertaining role player as it is that Danny is washed up. To be honest, none of us know what to reasonably expect.

    If we are arguing over who should start and who should come off the bench, then we are in damn good shape. May the best man (or fit) win!

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Lance's FG% would plummet if he was given free reign to shoot.


    I've been a Lance defender since day one, I've always though he had talent coming out of his ears, but he's not a scorer like Danny nor should he be.
    I totally DISAGREE !!

    Lance , in fact IS a scorer.....pure scorer at that...But he still has a leash that has slowly been given more and more slack.. He is just not a shooter ... a'la Granger.
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I think a lot of people look at the development of guys like Paul George and Roy Hibbert and then look at Lance's potential and have already anointed him our next homegrown star. Now im not saying he wont, because he very well could be. But I feel it's just as likely that he's a very strong and entertaining role player as it is that Danny is washed up. To be honest, none of us know what to reasonably expect.

    If we are arguing over who should start and who should come off the bench, then we are in damn good shape. May the best man (or fit) win!
    I agree and I think part of that is that we've had a lot of players take big steps forward and just assume Lance must do the same thing. Going back to Granger he really took a big step forward in his 3rd year, PG did the same and Hibbert has taken steps forward every year. It just doesn't always work out that way with young players. I really hope Lance takes a big step forward this year but as of now I still him as a player that needs to get under control a little to show more consistency and when he does he'll be a solid player with a long nba career. I don't see him ever hitting the level that Granger has or even was 2 years ago, he could but I don't think he will. I also think a lot of people are looking at Granger coming back from an injury at 30 as old when it fact that's the age most players hit their peak. If he can recover I think he has several high level years left in him.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    I totally DISAGREE !!

    Lance , in fact IS a scorer.....pure scorer at that...But he still has a leash that has slowly been given more and more slack.. He is just not a shooter ... a'la Granger.
    The two words that I posted (like Danny), directly after the word "scorer" is pretty important. No, Lance isn't a scorer, like Danny. Lance's jumpshot is bad. Yes, he can get hot and he can score in bunches, but that doesn't make someone a scorer, like Danny. Lance will not average 20pts a season, let alone 25, unless he makes a really big improvement in his shooting ability.

    Sure, he can get to the bucket at a high level but being one dimensional, right now, doesn't not make someone a scorer on the level that Danny is/was.

    It's kind of telling that Danny is "just a shooter" when he averaged 26 in a season, 24 in another, 20 in two seasons, 19 in another, with a career scoring average of 18pts, while Lance is a "scorer" who averaged 9pts last season. I mean, which one has the ability to score more, seriously?

    Lance might eventually be a scoring threat that defenses have to focus on, like Danny, but right now he's the 5th option that gets to stand in the corner.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Sure, he can get to the bucket at a high level but being one dimensional
    I would say Lance's ability to get to the basket to be above average at best. He gets more credit for his ability to get past his defender than he actually has.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    So now Lance is "one dimensional"? Lol, Lance is probably the most dimensional player on the team, can dribble, can pass, can create his own shot, can post up, etc,etc,etc..

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's kind of telling that Danny is "just a shooter" when he averaged 26 in a season, 24 in another, 20 in two seasons, 19 in another, with a career scoring average of 18pts, while Lance is a "scorer" who averaged 9pts last season. I mean, which one has the ability to score more, seriously?

    Lance might eventually be a scoring threat that defenses have to focus on, like Danny, but right now he's the 5th option that gets to stand in the corner.
    Stop it, you're making too much sense. Of course the guy who was the 5th option offensively and averaged under double figures is a better scorer than the guy who's nearly averaged 20 ppg throughout his career.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So now Lance is "one dimensional"? Lol, Lance is probably the most dimensional player on the team, can dribble, can pass, can create his own shot, can post up, etc,etc,etc..
    I actually think that Hill has the most dimensions to his game within the team. Lance isn't a good shooter, and is inconsistent when it comes to creating his own shot in the halfcourt.

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