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Thread: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Yeah, they both do. Doesn't make either of them one-dimensional, though, if that was anyone's argument.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    I would say that for a little while under JOB, Danny was a little one-dimensional. Maybe

    per http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l#all_per_game
    Danny's % of 3 point attempts
    08-09= 35%
    09-10= 38%
    10-11= 32%
    11-12= 34%

    FTA
    08-09= 6.8
    09-10= 6.8
    10-11= 6.1
    11-12= 5.1



    What do you see out of all that? It appears that 11-12 was a down year in everything for Danny overall. He turned it up in April:
    Value G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
    Month December 4 4 141 26 74 7 18 11 13 7 22 8 9 4 9 7 70 .351 .389 .846 35.1 17.5 5.5 2.0
    January 15 15 502 88 223 25 76 59 72 14 64 26 23 13 26 31 260 .395 .329 .819 33.5 17.3 4.3 1.7
    February 13 13 433 77 198 28 77 71 81 21 56 24 10 5 23 32 253 .389 .364 .877 33.3 19.5 4.3 1.8
    March 17 17 547 101 231 28 78 65 75 20 91 24 13 11 33 45 295 .437 .359 .867 32.1 17.4 5.4 1.4
    April 13 13 440 99 215 35 74 48 50 17 74 27 7 7 19 29 281 .460 .473 .960 33.8 21.6 5.7 2.1


    If we get anything close to 11-12 Danny this team is going to be scary. If we get Danny in January and February and he is taking the same amount of shots....we are in trouble. Inefficiency should not be tolerate. And that goes for Paul, Lance and Roy. There are too many weapons on this roster to harbor poor shooting.

  3. #478

    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    If we get anything close to 11-12 Danny this team is going to be scary. If we get Danny in January and February and he is taking the same amount of shots....we are in trouble. Inefficiency should not be tolerate. And that goes for Paul, Lance and Roy. There are too many weapons on this roster to harbor poor shooting.
    Considering Granger was the only real outside threat during the 2011-2012 season it made sense he took more shots, as him and West were the only reliable scorers. Paul George shot like 29% from mid-range to 3 pointer that year. Now with a more balanced scoring and PG getting better, it'll be interesting. WOO Next Saturday and against a good team, it will be a fun watch.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    Considering Granger was the only real outside threat during the 2011-2012 season it made sense he took more shots, as him and West were the only reliable scorers. Paul George shot like 29% from mid-range to 3 pointer that year. Now with a more balanced scoring and PG getting better, it'll be interesting. WOO Next Saturday and against a good team, it will be a fun watch.
    I think my point is he is taking too many 3s. And I think there could have been more emphasis on post entry
    Rk Player Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    1 Danny Granger 28 62 62 2062 391 941 .416 123 323 .381 254 291 .873 79 228 307 109 62 40 110 144 1159
    2 David West 31 66 66 1925 349 716 .487 2 9 .222 142 176 .807 118 315 433 140 52 46 93 160 842
    3 Roy Hibbert 25 65 65 1937 332 668 .497 0 1 .000 170 239 .711 213 359 572 108 32 128 128 195 834
    4 Paul George 21 66 66 1958 281 639 .440 90 234 .385 146 182 .802 56 314 370 158 108 38 117 191 798
    5 Darren Collison 24 60 56 1878 230 523 .440 34 94 .362 127 153 .830 30 157 187 287 49 14 114 101 621
    6 Tyler Hansbrough 26 66 0 1442 194 479 .405 0 1 .000 226 278 .813 113 177 290 30 54 9 65 159 614
    7 George Hill 25 50 9 1274 168 380 .442 54 147 .367 91 117 .778 31 120 151 145 42 17 52 98 481
    8 Dahntay Jones 31 65 3 1052 115 281 .409 33 77 .429 83 99 .838 23 94 117 63 23 11 46 119 346
    9 Louis Amundson 29 60 0 753 89 207 .430 0 0 35 82 .427 94 128 222 14 27 44 45 125 213
    10 Leandro Barbosa 29 22 0 436 73 183 .399 25 59 .424 25 33 .758 12 37 49 33 20 0 26 34 196
    11 A.J. Price 25 44 1 568 59 174 .339 26 88 .295 28 35 .800 13 48 61 86 20 2 32 30 172
    12 Lance Stephenson 21 42 1 442 47 125 .376 4 30 .133 8 17 .471 12 41 53 46 21 5 36 30 106
    13 Jeff Pendergraph 24 20 1 106 15 36 .417 0 0 4 7 .571 12 21 33 4 3 2 2 16 34
    14 Jeff Foster 35 11 0 141 9 18 .500 1 1 1.000 6 9 .667 18 24 42 4 8 1 7 26 25
    15 Kyrylo Fesenko 25 3 0 17 2 5 .400 0 0 4 6 .667 2 7 9 1 2 0 0 2 8

    Data courtesy Basketball-Reference.com.


    Rk Player Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    1 Danny Granger 28 62 62 2062 391 941 .416 123 323 .381 254 291 .873 79 228 307 109 62 40 110 144 1159
    2 David West 31 66 66 1925 349 716 .487 2 9 .222 142 176 .807 118 315 433 140 52 46 93 160 842
    3 Roy Hibbert 25 65 65 1937 332 668 .497 0 1 .000 170 239 .711 213 359 572 108 32 128 128 195 834
    4 Paul George 21 66 66 1958 281 639 .440 90 234 .385 146 182 .802 56 314 370 158 108 38 117 191 798
    5 Darren Collison 24 60 56 1878 230 523 .440 34 94 .362 127 153 .830 30 157 187 287 49 14 114 101 621
    6 Tyler Hansbrough 26 66 0 1442 194 479 .405 0 1 .000 226 278 .813 113 177 290 30 54 9 65 159 614
    7 George Hill 25 50 9 1274 168 380 .442 54 147 .367 91 117 .778 31 120 151 145 42 17 52 98 481
    8 Dahntay Jones 31 65 3 1052 115 281 .409 33 77 .429 83 99 .838 23 94 117 63 23 11 46 119 346
    9 Louis Amundson 29 60 0 753 89 207 .430 0 0 35 82 .427 94 128 222 14 27 44 45 125 213
    10 Leandro Barbosa 29 22 0 436 73 183 .399 25 59 .424 25 33 .758 12 37 49 33 20 0 26 34 196
    11 A.J. Price 25 44 1 568 59 174 .339 26 88 .295 28 35 .800 13 48 61 86 20 2 32 30 172
    12 Lance Stephenson 21 42 1 442 47 125 .376 4 30 .133 8 17 .471 12 41 53 46 21 5 36 30 106
    13 Jeff Pendergraph 24 20 1 106 15 36 .417 0 0 4 7 .571 12 21 33 4 3 2 2 16 34
    14 Jeff Foster 35 11 0 141 9 18 .500 1 1 1.000 6 9 .667 18 24 42 4 8 1 7 26 25
    15 Kyrylo Fesenko 25 3 0 17 2 5 .400 0 0 4 6 .667 2 7 9 1 2 0 0 2 8

    Data courtesy Basketball-Reference.com.
    Last edited by Major Cold; 09-26-2013 at 04:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    I get the point, but I don't even think showing someone shoots mid30% of their shots as 3pters is showing them to be one dimensional. Kyle Korver, for example, relies on 3pt attempts 69% of the time. Of even Ryan Anderson, with 50% of his shots are 3s. Stephen Curry is at 43%. Klay Thompson is at 44%. JJ Redick 51%. Nic Batum 53%. The list goes on and on.

    Yes, Danny relies on the 3 too much (he relies on it less than PG though) but I don't think it really crosses the line into the "one dimensional" territory.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Plus 1 from here. This argument about who will start or come off the bench is fun, but the real question will be not which player is better, but what role suits the TEAM"S needs the most. IMO, the choice of starters, backups and finishers will be Frank's call and may vary from matchup to matchup. I really expect to see Danny come off the bench in the early part of the season unless, as I've mentioned before, the trainers and coaches feel DG's knee will get stiff if he sits after the warm-ups and will be better if he starts playing right away.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I would say that for a little while under JOB, Danny was a little one-dimensional. Maybe

    per http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l#all_per_game
    Danny's % of 3 point attempts
    08-09= 35%
    09-10= 38%
    10-11= 32%
    11-12= 34%

    FTA
    08-09= 6.8
    09-10= 6.8
    10-11= 6.1
    11-12= 5.1



    What do you see out of all that? It appears that 11-12 was a down year in everything for Danny overall. He turned it up in April:
    Value G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
    Month December 4 4 141 26 74 7 18 11 13 7 22 8 9 4 9 7 70 .351 .389 .846 35.1 17.5 5.5 2.0
    January 15 15 502 88 223 25 76 59 72 14 64 26 23 13 26 31 260 .395 .329 .819 33.5 17.3 4.3 1.7
    February 13 13 433 77 198 28 77 71 81 21 56 24 10 5 23 32 253 .389 .364 .877 33.3 19.5 4.3 1.8
    March 17 17 547 101 231 28 78 65 75 20 91 24 13 11 33 45 295 .437 .359 .867 32.1 17.4 5.4 1.4
    April 13 13 440 99 215 35 74 48 50 17 74 27 7 7 19 29 281 .460 .473 .960 33.8 21.6 5.7 2.1


    If we get anything close to 11-12 Danny this team is going to be scary. If we get Danny in January and February and he is taking the same amount of shots....we are in trouble. Inefficiency should not be tolerate. And that goes for Paul, Lance and Roy. There are too many weapons on this roster to harbor poor shooting.
    Danny got off to an extremely poor start in 11-12 as we incorporated new pieces into the team. Post ASB he played great and April of that season was some of the best bball he played (even received praise from Vnzla)

    What was scary was the fact that we still scored efficiently and had a very good winning percentage throughout the season. I fully expect DG to get off to a bit of a slow start--as should anyone else. But also like 11-12 I believe we will win at a high rate.

    FG% is just not one of this teams strong suits. Paul, Roy, Danny, and even a guy like Hill all could stand to shoot a better % from the floor. The fact we are such a good rebounding/defensive team will help with that. But I agree, guys should be able to shoot better than they have in the last 2 seasons.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 09-26-2013 at 04:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    If Danny relies on 3's too much I am ok with it. Based on TS%, eFG%, and ORtg Danny Granger is on par with guys like Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, and Kobe Bryant. If he continues down his normal efficiency path, which is on par with some of the best scorers out there, I am not going to complain.

    By the way, I also looked at Reggie Miller compared to Durant and James as far as efficiency goes. Miller blows them out of the water. Miller had a Ortg of 121 for his career, with only two seasons below 118. Lebron for his career has a rating of 116, and Durant 114.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    What was scary was the fact that we still scored efficiently and had a very good winning percentage throughout the season. I fully expect DG to get off to a bit of a slow start--as should anyone else. But also like 11-12 I believe we will win at a high rate.

    FG% is just not one of this teams string suita. Paul, Roy, Danny, and even a guy like Hill all could stand to shoot a better % from the floor. The fact we are such a good rebounding/defensive team will help with that. But I agree, guys should be able to shoot better than they have in the last 2 seasons.
    In 2011-2012 we were 23rd in Eff Fg% (22nd in 12-13 w/out Danny). It was not good enough. I don't think points per game is our teams strength, but percentage should be. Our offense efficiency was better with Granger in 11-12 than without in 12-13. But the bench was better (not by much) than last year.

    Pacing is important. And if we maintain efficiency (points per 100 percentage) and get a better percentages, then we will be unstoppable.

    It really feels like if anyone has anything negative against anyone, people jump on as if there is no need for it. I understand Paul George shot too many 3s. I understand that Danny doesn't shoot as many as Curry, Korver, etc. I never once said he was one dimensional.

    I did say:
    I would say that for a little while under JOB, Danny was a little one-dimensional. Maybe
    There were some shots that Danny took that I wish he hadn't. And maybe I remember those more because he played more and was a focal part of the team. He is not a James Posey. I know this. But I see Danny most effective when he has a balance attack. Which he is capable of doing. I will never forget the 10-11 win at home against the NYKs. Sure Tyler went off. But Danny hit a mid-post game winner. I was in the 4th row. Gave Roy a high 5. Called Amare soft.

    But I think we all can agree that sometimes Danny was content in shooting 3s. If you can't then you have amnesia.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If Danny relies on 3's too much I am ok with it. Based on TS%, eFG%, and ORtg Danny Granger is on par with guys like Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, and Kobe Bryant.
    Danny's been a great soldier and he's a nice guy. Very likable. He's put his time in. Had a number of good years. But let's try to avoid comparing him to 4 hall of fame players. Instead, face up to what he is. A one time all-star selection who couldn't get minutes over Iguodala. I mean, we are talking a slight upgrade over Chuck Person. Maybe Kyle Korver with a little better defense, but not as good a shooter. Imagine the numbers Kyle would have racked up under JOb.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    I am sure that I have asked this before....but I will ask again.

    What advantage ( from an Contract POV ) over other Teams does the Pacers have in re-signing either Granger or Lance when they become Free Agents?

    I assume that they can offer a 5 year contract over a 4 year contract?

    I think that the Pacers can go over the LT to re-sign them....but since they won't....I don't think that matters.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If Danny relies on 3's too much I am ok with it. Based on TS%, eFG%, and ORtg Danny Granger is on par with guys like Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, and Kobe Bryant.
    You can't argue with somebody that is making this kind of claims

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    I know that it's all a matter of opinion......but is Granger's defense really that bad?

    The knock on him was that he can be a near-elite level defender WHEN he wants to be....but I'm am guessing that implies that it means that most of the time...he doesn't defend on that level. So, when he doesn't choose to be a near-elite level Defender.....how good ( or bad ) is his defense?

    Is it average?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Danny's been a great soldier and he's a nice guy. Very likable. He's put his time in. Had a number of good years. But let's try to avoid comparing him to 4 hall of fame players. Instead, face up to what he is. A one time all-star selection who couldn't get minutes over Iguodala. I mean, we are talking a slight upgrade over Chuck Person. Maybe Kyle Korver with a little better defense, but not as good a shooter. Imagine the numbers Kyle would have racked up under JOb.
    With this post, I'm debating with myself whether this post is an actual sequence of opinions or a massive troll. I'm going to assume opinion for the time being.

    So Granger's better than Chuck Person but not as good as Korver? Even if you mean only offensively, that's an absurd statement. You would have a better time convincing me that Person was better than Granger than Korver. If Danny were a Kyle Korver-type player who only succeeded because of O'Brien, he would have dropped down to a Korver-esque 10 ppg when Vogel took over, no? And as far as not getting minutes over a top 3 perimeter defender in the NBA on the most dominant national team in the world specifically because his defense wasn't as good, I don't see where that's a knock. He's not some scrub.

    Additionally, he wasn't comparing the Granger the basketball player to those hall of famers, he was comparing his offensive metrics. Offensive metrics tend to favor 3 point shooters, which is why in the part you purposely left out Reggie scores so high.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Danny's been a great soldier and he's a nice guy. Very likable. He's put his time in. Had a number of good years. But let's try to avoid comparing him to 4 hall of fame players. Instead, face up to what he is. A one time all-star selection who couldn't get minutes over Iguodala. I mean, we are talking a slight upgrade over Chuck Person. Maybe Kyle Korver with a little better defense, but not as good a shooter. Imagine the numbers Kyle would have racked up under JOb.
    Comparing them statistically in terms of one aspect of the game isn't the same as comparing them as complete players.

    The fact that you think Granger is Kyle Korver with slightly better defense really tells me all I need to know about how qualified you are to judge Granger because you obviously were not paying attention to how he played for the past 8 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I know that it's all a matter of opinion......but is Granger's defense really that bad?

    The knock on him was that he can be a near-elite level defender WHEN he wants to be....but I'm am guessing that implies that it means that most of the time...he doesn't defend on that level. So, when he doesn't choose to be a near-elite level Defender.....how good ( or bad ) is his defense?

    Is it average?
    Yeah, he is an average defender when he isn't putting in full effort. When he puts in full effort he is a pretty good defender, not great but better than most.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I get the point, but I don't even think showing someone shoots mid30% of their shots as 3pters is showing them to be one dimensional. Kyle Korver, for example, relies on 3pt attempts 69% of the time. Of even Ryan Anderson, with 50% of his shots are 3s. Stephen Curry is at 43%. Klay Thompson is at 44%. JJ Redick 51%. Nic Batum 53%. The list goes on and on.

    Yes, Danny relies on the 3 too much (he relies on it less than PG though) but I don't think it really crosses the line into the "one dimensional" territory.
    Nic Batum is so lethal. He settles for 3s far to much though(although I would say a good majority of his 3s are good looks). He is at his best when he is play making he is a very good point forward when he wants to be. The only issue is the guy hates contact he is one player that I love but he frustrates the hell out of me. J.J and Nic Batum's games are pretty beautiful to watch offensively add in Nic's defense he is one of my favorite players in the league.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I know that it's all a matter of opinion......but is Granger's defense really that bad?

    The knock on him was that he can be a near-elite level defender WHEN he wants to be....but I'm am guessing that implies that it means that most of the time...he doesn't defend on that level. So, when he doesn't choose to be a near-elite level Defender.....how good ( or bad ) is his defense?

    Is it average?
    I think Granger can be a good to very good defender when he wants to be. Unfortunately, he hasn't wanted to be very often. The JOB leash gave him the freedom to lay off on defense in order to play better offense.

    You'd think that he could simply just turn on the defense when it is needed. However, my observation is that bad habits formed by laying off the defensive side and made it difficult for him to turn on a dime and play great defense when the need arose.

    I am hopeful that he can still improve. I saw a little bit of that in the 2011-12 season under Vogel when defense was emphasized and the culture had changed. He still had bad habits, though. But I'm hopeful the longer he is part of the new culture the better he will overcome the habits and play up to his defensive potential.
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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    A one-dimensional scorer who shoots from 3 (catch and shoot, or off the dribble) and midrange (catch and shoot, or off the dribble), can finish around the basket (catch and shoot, or off the dribble), can get to the FT line, and can score in the post. Right. One-dimensional.
    When did Danny become a good midrange shooter, post player, and finisher? I'll give you FTs if you wanna count that as a dimension, but honestly, the way he gets his FTs never impressed me. I'm not sure charging into the paint with your head down helps the team all that much when your assist percentage hovers around 10. Anyway, people are getting hung up on my wording, and that's my fault I guess, but you get my point. Lance is a much more versatile offensive player.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If Danny relies on 3's too much I am ok with it. Based on TS%, eFG%, and ORtg Danny Granger is on par with guys like Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, and Kobe Bryant. If he continues down his normal efficiency path, which is on par with some of the best scorers out there, I am not going to complain.

    By the way, I also looked at Reggie Miller compared to Durant and James as far as efficiency goes. Miller blows them out of the water. Miller had a Ortg of 121 for his career, with only two seasons below 118. Lebron for his career has a rating of 116, and Durant 114.
    A stat that puts Danny on par with Melo, Wade, Pierce and Kobe, in addition to ranking Reggie as being more efficient than Durant and Lebron, probably isn't a very useful statistic. There's a reason that these stats are relatively obscure.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    With this post, I'm debating with myself whether this post is an actual sequence of opinions or a massive troll. I'm going to assume opinion for the time being.

    So Granger's better than Chuck Person but not as good as Korver? Even if you mean only offensively, that's an absurd statement. You would have a better time convincing me that Person was better than Granger than Korver. If Danny were a Kyle Korver-type player who only succeeded because of O'Brien, he would have dropped down to a Korver-esque 10 ppg when Vogel took over, no? And as far as not getting minutes over a top 3 perimeter defender in the NBA on the most dominant national team in the world specifically because his defense wasn't as good, I don't see where that's a knock. He's not some scrub.

    Additionally, he wasn't comparing the Granger the basketball player to those hall of famers, he was comparing his offensive metrics. Offensive metrics tend to favor 3 point shooters, which is why in the part you purposely left out Reggie scores so high.
    Granger's numbers were very much inflated under JOb. Mike Dunleavy almost averaged 20ppg before he was injured. People were talking up MDJ as if he should be on the all-star team himself. Korver is a much better shooter and would have easily eclipsed 20ppg.

    In 2012 under Vogel, Granger averaged 18ppg and his FG% was 41%. He had a solid green light on a young team and still couldn't crack 20ppg. Did you happen to know Granger only averaged 13ppg against the Heat in the playoffs of 2012....and somehow gets cred from that series.

    With that said, sure, I will agree Granger is better than both Dun and Korver but the difference isn't that great. His only real advantage is that he's more physical. So perhaps he can contend on the boards and defend a little better.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Granger's numbers were very much inflated under JOb. Mike Dunleavy almost averaged 20ppg before he was injured. People were talking up MDJ as if he should be on the all-star team himself
    I'm not going to lie I voted at least 100 times to get Mike Dunleavy on the all star game

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not going to lie I voted at least 100 times to get Mike Dunleavy on the all star game
    The good old days. When Troy Murphy averaged a double double and patrolled the paint. When people were amazed by Dunleavy's offensive play making skills because all Granger did was spot up. Seriously, it's like no other skill than shooting the basketball was important to JOb.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think Granger can be a good to very good defender when he wants to be. Unfortunately, he hasn't wanted to be very often. The JOB leash gave him the freedom to lay off on defense in order to play better offense.

    You'd think that he could simply just turn on the defense when it is needed. However, my observation is that bad habits formed by laying off the defensive side and made it difficult for him to turn on a dime and play great defense when the need arose.

    I am hopeful that he can still improve. I saw a little bit of that in the 2011-12 season under Vogel when defense was emphasized and the culture had changed. He still had bad habits, though. But I'm hopeful the longer he is part of the new culture the better he will overcome the habits and play up to his defensive potential.
    This is as about a fair conclusion of Danny's game that I've seen from his detractors.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Danny Granger only slightly better than Kyle Korver is a new diss I hadn't seen on here before.

    And it's kind of funny that it's blasphemous to cite a stat (not compare the players, but CITE a stat) that compares a few great players with the guy who has has tremendous success scoring the ball throughout his career, but it's totally sensible to literally compare a guy who's never even averaged double figures in 3 seasons to some of the same great players.

    PD at its finest
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 09-26-2013 at 10:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Danny's been a great soldier and he's a nice guy. Very likable. He's put his time in. Had a number of good years. But let's try to avoid comparing him to 4 hall of fame players. Instead, face up to what he is. A one time all-star selection who couldn't get minutes over Iguodala. I mean, we are talking a slight upgrade over Chuck Person. Maybe Kyle Korver with a little better defense, but not as good a shooter. Imagine the numbers Kyle would have racked up under JOb.
    Oh man, I was right with you until this part. That's hilarious. Awful, but hilarious.

    I get that it's an attempt to balance out the "compare Granger to HOF players" bit (which was also ridiculous), but you shredded your credibility with that line.
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