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Thread: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    No, I think Peyton wanted a sure thing. Which is why he chose Denver. A team with good talent defensively (at the time), a strong blocking/receiving back, and a group of receivers with a lot of potential.

    How much different are Peyton's surroundings really? I mean yeah he's living in Denver, but he's running pretty much the exact same offense he's always run. You really think John Fox is the guy calling the shots on the field? For Peyton it's just a different color jersey, otherwise it's his system. The same system he's been running for 15 years.

    I think Peyton could have absolutely made Irsay cave if he really wanted to be a Colt. He chose not to. I don't hold that against him, but I do think it's the truth. This is the guy raised and nurtured by the same family that held San Diego hostage for a rookie Eli. Pretty sure they've got some weight to swing around, and Peyton is the heavy weight of the group if there ever was one.

    Kravitz wrote an interesting column yesterday. When it comes to inside info on Peyton, Kravitz is by far the best local resource. Peyton always respected Kravitz a lot, and was always willing to give him interviews. In January 2012 before he was cut, Peyton gave Kravitz the interview at the Colts complex in which he said that the atmosphere was not a good place for healing. That led to Irsay calling him a "politician".

    Anyway, here's an interesting blurb from the Kravitz column:

    After his mass press conference, we ducked into a doorway at the Broncos facility, and I asked him point-blank, “Do you bear any ill will or resentment toward the Colts?”

    The question wasn’t just based on the fact Irsay told USA TODAY’s Jarrett Bell that he was disappointed by winning one Super Bowl during Manning’s career, a story that reached a crescendo after Broncos coach John Fox blasted Irsay on Tuesday, saying the comments were “inappropriate” and a “cheap shot.” It was also based on the fact that, well, the Colts let Manning go, felt they would be best served to move on without him. Nobody likes being fired, regardless of the circumstances.

    Manning paused, looked down at the floor, then shook his head.

    “To answer a question like that doesn’t serve me well,” he told The Star in a private moment. “I feel like the question is based on the (Irsay) comments, so it’s just easier not to answer anything along those lines.”

    What he could have said? Something along the lines of: “I bear them no ill will. They did what they had to do. Now I’m in a spot where I can win a Super Bowl or even multiple championships. It was a win-win for everybody involved.”

    He didn’t say that.



    http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...ings-Jim-Irsay


    I think it's pretty clear that he is bent about being released from the franchise that he put on the map, just like any competitor would be. Yes, you're right in that the Manning's generally get what they want. But one thing that the Manning's aren't used to is getting fired. For the first time in Peyton's life, someone was saying that they didn't want his services. He had no control anymore. Way different than Eli's situation in which he was holding a team hostage who wanted his services so that he could play for another team who also wanted his services.

    We have Kravitz, the local reporter who was most connected to Manning, implying that Peyton has ill-will towards Irsay. Chris Mortensen was on Mike and Mike earlier and said that Peyton wanted to end his career in Indy. Keep in mind that Mort is very close to Bill Polian, so it's logical to assume that Bill told him that after talking to Manning about the subject throughout the 2011 season.

    All of the evidence points to Peyton wanting to finish his career in Indy. I don't see anything that implies otherwise. He re-signed here after the 2010 season in which it was obvious that our roster was a bit flawed. I don't think that playing on the best possible team was ever the most important thing to him. All that mattered to him was retiring as a Colt. I just don't believe for a second that he wouldn't have been extremely happy if Irsay said, "I'm keeping you and we're trading that number 1 pick for a king's ransom of goods that will help you win." That would have put Peyton in an even better situation than he was in when he re-signed after 2010. I don't buy that his attitude towards the franchise changed because of the 2-14 season when it was clear as day to anyone that the number 1, 2, 3, and 4 reason for that pitiful season was that we had pathetic quarterback play.

    It's absolutely heartbreaking that it's come to this. Never did I envision a day in which their would be awkwardness between Peyton Manning and the Colts. Sad.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    With a brother that behaves completely different than myself, trying to say Peyton is one way because Eli (and Archie) is that way really really makes me cringe.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    With a brother that behaves completely different than myself, trying to say Peyton is one way because Eli (and Archie) is that way really really makes me cringe.

    I agree. I think that Archie supports whatever the sons want to do. When Peyton was fine with being drafted by a bottom feeder Colts franchise, Archie was cool with it. When Eli whined like a spoiled brat and demanded a trade, Archie got involved.

    Peyton and Eli have vastly different quarterbacking skills, but they also conducted their business very different in the early stages of their careers. Peyton respected the integrity of the draft process and relished the opportunity of transforming a weak Colts franchise into one of the elite. Eli OTOH threw a middle finger to the draft process and whined until he got a trade to a more desirable location.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    He re-signed here after the 2010 season............
    Since we're all speculating here, I'll throw out that maybe he signed because he knew he had physical issues. Don't know about the process - was there a physical, would there have been a physical if he decided to sign elsewhere ....... I just don't know.

    But, it's possible that he knew he had problems.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Since we're all speculating here, I'll throw out that maybe he signed because he knew he had physical issues. Don't know about the process - was there a physical, would there have been a physical if he decided to sign elsewhere ....... I just don't know.

    But, it's possible that he knew he had problems.
    Of course he knew he had phsyical issues. Peyton already had TWO neck surgeries before he signed, and had his third within a month. Peyton knew, and so did Irsay, and Irsay was still out there saying he'd pay Peyton whatever he wanted, and Peyton actually took LESS than what the Colts were offering. Which is why it's utterly hilarious to listen to Irsay say that it was cap reasons, and then watch people eat it up.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Of course he knew he had phsyical issues. Peyton already had TWO neck surgeries before he signed, and had his third within a month. Peyton knew, and so did Irsay, and Irsay was still out there saying he'd pay Peyton whatever he wanted, and Peyton actually took LESS than what the Colts were offering. Which is why it's utterly hilarious to listen to Irsay say that it was cap reasons, and then watch people eat it up.
    You don't think paying Peyton 20mil or whatever it was and him not being able to play at all in the season might've changed the equation? Let alone seeing the poor season the Colts' had with their weaknesses staring him on the face might've caused Irsay to rethink about the ramifications of the potential Manning cap hit?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    No, actually I don't. I think if it was that big of an issue, you do your due diligence before you offer the contract, instead of whining about the choices that you made after the fact. I have zero sympathy for it, none-what-so-ever, because I actually listened to Irsay run his gums on the radio where he was saying he wanted to make Peyton the highest paid player in the NFL, because he deserved it for what he had done for the franchise.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No, actually I don't. I think if it was that big of an issue, you do your due diligence before you offer the contract, instead of whining about the choices that you made after the fact. I have zero sympathy for it, none-what-so-ever, because I actually listened to Irsay run his gums on the radio where he was saying he wanted to make Peyton the highest paid player in the NFL, because he deserved it for what he had done for the franchise.

    You can do due diligence, but you can't have a crystal ball. Peyton was rehabbing right until the bitter end and was trying everything possible to get on the field for the start of 2011. It wasn't until right before the season started that it became obvious he needed another procedure. I don't think that anyone (Manning/Polian/Irsay) really thought that he would miss the entire season until late August, which was a month after the contract was signed. At worst, they probably thought he would miss a month or so max.

    The perfect evidence for this is that Polian didn't bring Collins in until late August. Sort of an "oh crap, Peyton might actually miss some time" move. I think that Polian did a pretty poor job in his last few years here, but I don't think he was so incompetent that he would have waited until late August to bring in a QB if he felt as early as July that Peyton would miss a huge chunk/all of the season.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Signing Peyton was a top priority for this organization and we are thrilled that the deal is complete," Irsay said in a statement released by the team Saturday. "We feel that it is a salary cap friendly deal and it allows us more flexibility."
    Fast forward one year later and the tune was "this contract is a cap killer"

    Here is Peyton saying he took less than what was offered, so it would be more cap friendlier.

    "While I appreciate Jim Irsay offering to make me the highest-paid player," Manning told The Indianapolis Star, "I told him I'd rather he save that money and keep whoever it is ... (running back) Joe Addai, (left tackle) Charlie Johnson ... whoever that may be. I'm willing to take less than they've offered if they are going to take that money to keep players we need to keep and go get other players. All I want is for them to have the cap and the cash to keep the players they want to keep and to sign other players."
    "It's a credit 2 Peyton;he put Coltfans,teammates, Ind. n winning ahead of all else," Irsay wrote on Twitter.
    Behind the scenes, for more than a year, Polian has been preaching Manning's next deal as a "legacy contract" that would enable them to build the team around the quarterback with more cash and salary-cap space, and give Manning an opportunity to build his legacy with another Super Bowl ring or two.

    Manning said he never has had to be convinced that being flexible with his salary was the right thing to do for the team.
    Condon was unavailable for comment, but sources say the renowned agent was prepared to justify a salary that exceeded the $20 million average mark because of Manning's value to the team, whose success arguably allowed the Colts to remain in Indianapolis with new Lucas Oil Stadium, a facility constructed with substantial public funding. Indianapolis also will be the host city of its first Super Bowl in February.

    Instead, Manning wanted to provide the franchise the best opportunity to be the first team to ever play in a Super Bowl that it is hosting.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68...0-million-deal
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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    The media is running with nothing. Irsay didn't disrespect Manning. Stupid. All he said was that when Manning was here, the team was structured in a way that didn't maximize their SB success because the team wasn't balanced, and I took that to mean that Irsay was taking partial blame himself for that. All the changes he made to the team last year were in-line with this correction in philosophy.

    I hate when **** like this happens. Irsay's only mistake was he opened his mouth... what he said was harmless, but you know how ridiculously stupid people are, they always read way more into it than they should, they just WANT drama to occur.

    Irsay criticized the Manning era. You can say that his comments were directed at Polian or Dungy, but at the end of the day Peyton was by far the main figurehead of the era. There's a reason it's called the "Manning era", not the Polian or Dungy era. Any criticism of the team's performance during that era, whether right or wrong, is a direct shot at Manning. Irsay would have to be an idiot to not realize that the media would run all over this. Very poor timing on his part to say it right before Manning makes his return trip to Indy.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    You can do due diligence, but you can't have a crystal ball. Peyton was rehabbing right until the bitter end and was trying everything possible to get on the field for the start of 2011. It wasn't until right before the season started that it became obvious he needed another procedure. I don't think that anyone (Manning/Polian/Irsay) really thought that he would miss the entire season until late August, which was a month after the contract was signed. At worst, they probably thought he would miss a month or so max.

    The perfect evidence for this is that Polian didn't bring Collins in until late August. Sort of an "oh crap, Peyton might actually miss some time" move. I think that Polian did a pretty poor job in his last few years here, but I don't think he was so incompetent that he would have waited until late August to bring in a QB if he felt as early as July that Peyton would miss a huge chunk/all of the season.
    I'm not saying they needed a crystal ball, but you can be very creative with NFL contracts. Why not make the base salary lower, and then fill it with incentives that can easily be reached in order to bump up the pay, if he plays? They didn't do it. Instead, they gave him a full contract, without any way to protect themselves from it, all while telling everyone how great of a deal it was.

    It doesn't take a crystal ball to realize that there is danger on the horizon when your QB just had two neck surgeries and is looking at his third within a year.
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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Fast forward one year later and the tune was "this contract is a cap killer"

    Here is Peyton saying he took less than what was offered, so it would be more cap friendlier.

    Irsay had the one out after the 2011 season, but he had no more yearly outs if he would have picked up the contract in 2012. He would have been picking up a four year contract. Conversely, Denver had an option to get out of the contract based off of Manning's 2012 season. Would Manning have restructured to allow the Colts to get out of the contract after seeing him play in 2012 as opposed to boxing them in for four years? Only two people know the answer to that and I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Peyton restructured his deal in 2007 to give the Colts more cap space. So the guy has a history of taking less money than what is offered, then restructuring deals after they're signed in order to give the Colts financial flexibility. I see no reason why he wouldn't have restructured in 2012. But if Irsay puts provisions in the contract based on amount of play, then there's no reason to do it. Be pro-active instead of reactive.

    EDIT: Not to mention that he restructured his Denver deal just this offseason.
    Last edited by Since86; 10-17-2013 at 01:13 PM.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    My feelings over the whole ordeal have subsided, I just don't like getting pissed on and then told it's just raining. Atleast have the common decency to be honest and say you were looking at this from the view point of the next 10 years, instead of trying to argue that Manning just costs too much.

    Suppose Manning stayed, and didn't restructure his deal, and was putting up similiar numbers would anyone be crying about his contract? No way.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Restructuring usually means moving the money around in different ways - various bonuses, deferred money, etc. Doesn't mean he moved the number down.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Restructuring only means moving the money around in different ways - various bonuses, etc. Doesn't mean he moved the number down.
    It moves the number that goes towards the cap down, and that's the only thing that matters.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Peyton restructured his deal in 2007 to give the Colts more cap space. So the guy has a history of taking less money than what is offered, then restructuring deals after they're signed in order to give the Colts financial flexibility. I see no reason why he wouldn't have restructured in 2012. But if Irsay puts provisions in the contract based on amount of play, then there's no reason to do it. Be pro-active instead of reactive.

    EDIT: Not to mention that he restructured his Denver deal just this offseason.

    I agree that he probably would have restructured if Irsay would have said, "Hey, I want to keep you and we're going to trade this #1 pick for a bunch of assets that will help you win in the later years of your career."

    But like I've said many times, I think the #1 pick was far more important to the whole thing than any dollars and cents.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    I think you missed my point. I'm saying Irsay was happy as could be to pay Manning in that final contract. It was all roses, puppy dogs, rainbows, and Cadillacs.... But then the season happened. The worst case scenario came true. In fact, possibly a scenario unfolded that was more than the worst case that was imagined. ...except of course they had the #1 pick at the other end of things.

    Cap ramifications IMHO probably looked far different after that missed season than they had ever looked before.

    And I've thought more about Irsay's alleged slam on Peyton. I don't think it's a slam on Peyton, Polian, or Dungy... It's a slam on himself if anything. He got fat and happy with the records and regular season wins but in hindsight can see that with a QB like Manning there should've been more playoff success. Had Irsay realized this sooner things could've been different. Instead, he was caught up in the moment.

    Irsay had a lot of time to reflect on many things in hindsight.
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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    I don't believe it's hindsight, at all. That's my point.

    Peyton had two surgeries before he signed the contract, and had his third shortly thereafter. Is it really that hard to envision him missing the entire year, especially when the question mark is surrounding whether or not nerves will re-generate with no one being able to put a time frame on it?

    If they couldn't forsee Peyton missing the entire year, then I don't see the family staying rich for long, because that's an awfully big red train coming down the tracks right at you for you not to see.

    I think they didn't think the Colts, as a team, was that bad and when they showed just how awful they were without Manning, a cold dose of reality set in. I think they had no idea they'd be in the running for Luck, and then found themselves in the position needing to find a palatable way out that they could vocalize to the fan base.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't believe it's hindsight, at all. That's my point.

    Peyton had two surgeries before he signed the contract, and had his third shortly thereafter. Is it really that hard to envision him missing the entire year, especially when the question mark is surrounding whether or not nerves will re-generate with no one being able to put a time frame on it?

    If they couldn't forsee Peyton missing the entire year, then I don't see the family staying rich for long, because that's an awfully big red train coming down the tracks right at you for you not to see.

    I think they didn't think the Colts, as a team, was that bad and when they showed just how awful they were without Manning, a cold dose of reality set in. I think they had no idea they'd be in the running for Luck, and then found themselves in the position needing to find a palatable way out that they could vocalize to the fan base.
    Well... we pretty much agree. My 'worst case' scenario that I figured they imagined was Peyton missing some time and possibly the season. But then the team just being terrible was beyond their worst case imagination. So it had to be an eye opener.

    And that dovetails into my point about the cap ramifications looking far different at that point with a heavy dose of reality setting in during and after the season.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    With a brother that behaves completely different than myself, trying to say Peyton is one way because Eli (and Archie) is that way really really makes me cringe.

    I agree with this (a brother total opposite of me) but I also had no issue with Eli wanting to be in the best situation for him. I mean that was the smartest decision he ever made.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    I'm still glad it all worked out the way it did. When the NFL history books are written I still think Luck will be proven to be the better "clutch" QB. I know the Colts relative lack of playoff success is not all on Manning, but I still don't totally trust him when the season is on the line at playoff time. I called the Manning interception in the playoffs last year before it even happened. If Manning wins a SB with the Broncos I will put him in the top 5 of all time.


    He needs at least one more SB for him to be there for me. Another "one and done" this year would be disastrous to his legacy as many still perceive him as a one and done QB. Might be the most pressure he's facing in this year's post season because he knows the clock is winding down and the Broncos are such huge favs to win it all. Wouldn't that be crazy if the Colts end up being responsible for another Manning early playoff exit this year?
    Last edited by presto123; 10-17-2013 at 02:04 PM.

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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Again I submit the idea that the coke head idiot owner, got pissed that he just had to pay Manning 26 Million to sit. He got antsy with the #1 pick in his hands, he thought man what happens if Manning suffers another injury? I'm out another 30 million.... Then he seen all the money he could make from #12 jersey's.

    That is why Manning is pissed off at Irsay. He displayed no faith in him after all those years. Irsay is the worst. You say a year earlier that the contract was great and assured his retirement in Indianapolis and more shots at a super bowl, and then say that contract is a ball and chain, we have to gut the whole team. They were gonna gut half the team anyway.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  32. #374
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    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Again I submit the idea that the coke head idiot owner, got pissed that he just had to pay Manning 26 Million to sit. He got antsy with the #1 pick in his hands, he thought man what happens if Manning suffers another injury? I'm out another 30 million.... Then he seen all the money he could make from #12 jersey's.

    That is why Manning is pissed off at Irsay. He displayed no faith in him after all those years. Irsay is the worst. You say a year earlier that the contract was great and assured his retirement in Indianapolis and more shots at a super bowl, and then say that contract is a ball and chain, we have to gut the whole team. They were gonna gut half the team anyway.

    You're forgetting the part where Manning was not fully healthy when we let him go. There was no guarantee that the nerve would come all the way back. Even Manning had concerns about that for quite a while as there was no zip on his passes. It was a no brainer "at the time" to take Luck.

  33. #375

    Default Re: 2013 Peyton Manning thread

    (In addition to ^^ ...........)

    Not sure what the exact dates were, but the Colts had to make a financial decision on Manning before OTAs and training camps started. In other words, Irsay would have had to commit to the money before he (or anyone else) knew that Manning would be able to play. Doing THAT would have been stupid.

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