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Thread: Three of Seven

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    Default Three of Seven

    By the end of last season, Frank finally got to a point we'd been begging for: rather than platoon rotations, we never had fewer than 2 of our top 5 on the court. This year there's some question about rotations... does Danny start? Lance? Regardless, Danny and Scola give us seven quality starters to put on the floor. We'll also see (depending on matchups and injuries) minutes for Ian, Copeland, Solomon, and CJ. I don't think OJ's gonna sniff much PT this year, sadly.

    But none of those 4 guys should play ahead of the seven I've mentioned. I'd really like to see Frank commit to playing 3 of the top seven guys at all times. There are a lot of combinations you can run with Roy, Scola, West, Danny, Paul, Lance, and Hill. What's the WORST three-man unit you could put on the floor with those guys? It'll be a lot better than our BEST bench unit last year.
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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    By the end of last season, Frank finally got to a point we'd been begging for: rather than platoon rotations, we never had fewer than 2 of our top 5 on the court. This year there's some question about rotations... does Danny start? Lance? Regardless, Danny and Scola give us seven quality starters to put on the floor. We'll also see (depending on matchups and injuries) minutes for Ian, Copeland, Solomon, and CJ. I don't think OJ's gonna sniff much PT this year, sadly.

    But none of those 4 guys should play ahead of the seven I've mentioned. I'd really like to see Frank commit to playing 3 of the top seven guys at all times. There are a lot of combinations you can run with Roy, Scola, West, Danny, Paul, Lance, and Hill. What's the WORST three-man unit you could put on the floor with those guys? It'll be a lot better than our BEST bench unit last year.
    I hope to god Copeland and Scola dont play a lot 4/5 together.


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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by neosmndrew View Post
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    I hope to god Copeland and Scola dont play a lot 4/5 together.
    I've really liked the fact that Ian was in San Antonio with Roy working out with Tim Duncan. Doesn't it seem reasonable that the combination of Roy/Ian will consume at least 45 of 48 minutes per game, unless he game is either well under a control or totally out of hand? I think that in close games, they'll probably take up all 48.

    And, as Anthem suggests, I do expect to see 3 or more of our top 7 on the floor at all times in any game still being contested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I've really liked the fact that Ian was in San Antonio with Roy working out with Tim Duncan. Doesn't it seem reasonable that the combination of Roy/Ian will consume at least 45 of 48 minutes per game, unless he game is either well under a control or totally out of hand? I think that in close games, they'll probably take up all 48.

    And, as Anthem suggests, I do expect to see 3 or more of our top 7 on the floor at all times in any game still being contested.
    I think Ian will play a lot less this year now that we have Scola. Scola is going to get a lot more p.t. then Tyler ever did and it has to come from soemwhere. I don't see West reducing his minutes so I think you'll see a combination of West and Scola a lot when Hibbert is out.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    I'd rather see Seven of Nine




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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    There are a lot of combinations you can run with Roy, Scola, West, Danny, Paul, Lance, and Hill. What's the WORST three-man unit you could put on the floor with those guys? It'll be a lot better than our BEST bench unit last year.
    Injuries always happen, so this puts us in a good position to adjust. Hopefully, they will only be short term injuries, nothing permanent this year.
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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    The rotations will work themselves out during the regular season. I also expect we will see better balance with having scoring threats on the floor while still maintaining the defense/rebounding identity.

    Hard to say but I'm hoping for a solid 9-man rotation come playoff time with Mahinmi & Watson likely playing fewer (but very important) minutes. This team is still built for the playoff grind and a big part of that will be keeping Hibbert, Hill & George fresh and out of foul trouble in the 4th quarter.

    Barring injuries or lots of foul trouble I don't see Copeland playing much late in the post-season against the quality teams.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by neosmndrew View Post
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    I hope to god Copeland and Scola dont play a lot 4/5 together.
    If this team stays healthy overall I don't think Copleland should see 200 minutes the entire season. He became an insurance policy once Scola was brought in. If we see Copeland and Scola together it should only be in a blowout. I agree with Anthem, give most of the playing time to our core 7 with Watson and Ian picking up where needed. That 9 man rotatation should get it done.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I think Ian will play a lot less this year now that we have Scola. Scola is going to get a lot more p.t. then Tyler ever did and it has to come from soemwhere. I don't see West reducing his minutes so I think you'll see a combination of West and Scola a lot when Hibbert is out.
    It might come from West. He's not getting any younger and we could probably cruise through the regular season with him seeing fewer minutes, then ramp it up in the playoffs. If Hibbert's minutes don't change, we'll see plenty of Ian and Luis together. Pair them with any of the wings and it's still a very good lineup. I mean, play CJ, Lance, Copeland, Luis, and Ian and see how quickly we can score. That's probably our worst lineup without including Sloan or OJ, and I still think it's worlds better than the bench last year.

    This thread has made me realize again just how stacked this team is. I'm so excited for this year!
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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    If this team stays healthy overall I don't think Copleland should see 200 minutes the entire season. He became an insurance policy once Scola was brought in. If we see Copeland and Scola together it should only be in a blowout. I agree with Anthem, give most of the playing time to our core 7 with Watson and Ian picking up where needed. That 9 man rotatation should get it done.
    To me it depends on how many minutes a game Granger can play. If he can play 30 give or take then Copeland probably doesn't see the court much. If he can't Copeland might see some time at the 3 especially against teams that don't have great offense at the small forward spot.

    I can also see Copeland playing in games where the Pacers are playing catch-up and need some microwave offense off the bench.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    I guess Solomon Hill won't see much time.
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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I guess Solomon Hill won't see much time.
    Which is really too bad because while I don't see him adding a lot to his game, I think he's ready to step in right now as a quality role player who does a little of a lot of things. The kid is really smart.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    I suppose an ideal playoff rotation may go something like this:

    Hill 32 min / Watson 16 min
    George 24 min / Stephenson 24 min
    Granger 32 min / George 16 min
    West 32 min / Scola 16 min
    Hibbert 34 min / Scola 14 min (or Scola X min and Ian Y min)

    Roughly, anyway. Others will see time as circumstances demand, and I think Ian may see more time whenever we need to maximize our rim protection.

    Even for the playoffs, asking Paul to play 40 minutes a game may be excessive. If so, give some of those minutes to Lance.

    A nice, quality, 8.5 man rotation. I expect us to play 10-11 people during regular season games.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    "at all times" is a bit of a hyperbole. The 3 of 7 maybe practical on a healthy team in a competing situation. But what about a blow out. Or if we are up by 25 in the third on a game in December. Should we play 3 of 7 "at all times"?

    I want to rest our starters and key players. It is a long season. I am fearfully awaiting the thread "______ out for the season". I trust Vogel to make the right rotations. He has grown in that area. Vogel is one of the best in the league. He is smarter than many give him credit here.

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    I've been a huge proponent of the idea in the OP for the past couple years, however, I feel like we have the depth to go 11 deep every game. Obviously you adjust to situations, but there's no need to really wear our starters out during the season. PG and Hill are the only ones who should average more than 30 mpg over the course of the season.
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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    "at all times" is a bit of a hyperbole. The 3 of 7 maybe practical on a healthy team in a competing situation. But what about a blow out. Or if we are up by 25 in the third on a game in December. Should we play 3 of 7 "at all times"?
    Ok, clearly in a blowout we play Sloan, OJ, Solomon, Copeland, and Mahinmi. Here's hoping that unit gets to play every game.

    But when the game's within reach, I expect to see three of our top seven players on the floor. That's not asking much... I'm basically saying don't rest more than 4 of our starter-level players at the same time.
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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok, clearly in a blowout we play Sloan, OJ, Solomon, Copeland, and Mahinmi. Here's hoping that unit gets to play every game.

    But when the game's within reach, I expect to see three of our top seven players on the floor. That's not asking much... I'm basically saying don't rest more than 4 of our starter-level players at the same time.
    And I am saying that if a game is in reach at a back to back and we have to play West, Hibbert, and Danny less and Copeland, Ian, and Solomon more, so that we are healthy for the playoffs. So be it. I would not get all mad at Vogel if that is the case.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I suppose an ideal playoff rotation may go something like this:

    Hill 32 min / Watson 16 min
    George 24 min / Stephenson 24 min
    Granger 32 min / George 16 min
    West 32 min / Scola 16 min
    Hibbert 34 min / Scola 14 min (or Scola X min and Ian Y min)

    Roughly, anyway. Others will see time as circumstances demand, and I think Ian may see more time whenever we need to maximize our rim protection.

    Even for the playoffs, asking Paul to play 40 minutes a game may be excessive. If so, give some of those minutes to Lance.

    A nice, quality, 8.5 man rotation. I expect us to play 10-11 people during regular season games.
    I for one don't particularly want to see Scola getting a lot of minutes at the center position, only on nights where Ian is underperforming do I want to see West or Scola get more than spot minutes as a C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I for one don't particularly want to see Scola getting a lot of minutes at the center position, only on nights where Ian is underperforming do I want to see West or Scola get more than spot minutes as a C.
    Last year Tyler played 16 minutes while West played 33 and Scola 26 which was a step down from what he's averaged. I expect Scola to play close to 30 minutes for us. The extra playing time has to come from someone. I could see West playing maybe 32 but no less and Scola can't take time from the 3 since that's the most crowded position we have. The only way we use Scola to his potential is to give him some time on the floor with West. You can call either one the center at that point but I either way Scola takes minutes from Ian which I think is a good thing. Yes we give up some rim protection but what we gain outweighs what we lose bigtime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Last year Tyler played 16 minutes while West played 33 and Scola 26 which was a step down from what he's averaged. I expect Scola to play close to 30 minutes for us. The extra playing time has to come from someone. I could see West playing maybe 32 but no less and Scola can't take time from the 3 since that's the most crowded position we have. The only way we use Scola to his potential is to give him some time on the floor with West. You can call either one the center at that point but I either way Scola takes minutes from Ian which I think is a good thing. Yes we give up some rim protection but what we gain outweighs what we lose bigtime.
    This isn't the Rockets or Suns, what he averaged in the past has no bearing on how much he averages next season. On a team with West, Hibbert, and that values rim protection and defense I wouldn't expect a player like Scola to average anywhere close to 30 minutes, 25 at the most.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    This isn't the Rockets or Suns, what he averaged in the past has no bearing on how much he averages next season. On a team with West, Hibbert, and that values rim protection and defense I wouldn't expect a player like Scola to average anywhere close to 30 minutes, 25 at the most.
    OK but even if it's 25 that's 9 less for Ian, there just isn't anywhere else for those minutes to come from. After the way Hibbert picked up the pace at the end of last season I expect that'll he'll play a few minutes more this year then the 28 he did last season. I'm not trying to count Ian out but in the end I just see him a barely a rotational player this year, at least I think he gets less then 10 minutes on average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    But none of those 4 guys should play ahead of the seven I've mentioned. I'd really like to see Frank commit to playing 3 of the top seven guys at all times. There are a lot of combinations you can run with Roy, Scola, West, Danny, Paul, Lance, and Hill. What's the WORST three-man unit you could put on the floor with those guys? It'll be a lot better than our BEST bench unit last year.
    PG: Roy Hibbert
    SG: Luis Scola
    SF: David West
    PF: Lance Stephenson
    C: George Hill



    But seriously,

    I think it'd have to be something with Lance at the point (forcing PG to the #2, which puts DG at the #3).

    Then maybe West / Scola?

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    [QUOTE=Karlton;1703576]PG: Roy Hibbert
    SG: Luis Scola
    SF: David West
    PF: Lance Stephenson
    C: George Hill



    But seriously,

    I think it'd have to be something with Lance at the point (forcing PG to the #2, which puts DG at the #3).

    Then maybe West / Scola?[/
    QUOTE]

    We'd still be big even without a center. I wouldn't want to see that lineup against a team with a premier pg or center but I wouldn't mind seeing how it works against several teams, at least for a short spurt.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    We'd still be big even without a center. I wouldn't want to see that lineup against a team with a premier pg or center but I wouldn't mind seeing how it works against several teams, at least for a short spurt.
    Oh sure, just answering the original question.

    I'd like to see an 8 man rotation because I think we at least need someone else at PG besides Hill because I'm not really a fan of Lance there, but something like this:

    PG: 2 man rotation
    SG / SF: 3 man rotation with PG playing both SG / SF
    PF / C: 3 man rotation with Scola playing both PF / C

    would probably maximize our opportunities.

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    Default Re: Three of Seven

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I for one don't particularly want to see Scola getting a lot of minutes at the center position, only on nights where Ian is underperforming do I want to see West or Scola get more than spot minutes as a C.
    Why?

    backup center
    Nets -Blatche
    Hawks- Brand
    Celtics-Sullinger, Kelly-O
    Bobcats- Biyombo
    Bulls-Nazr/Taj
    Cavs- Varejao
    Mavs- Benard James/Brandan Wright
    Nuggets- Mozgov/JJ Hickson
    Pistons-Harrelson?
    Warriors- JO/Ezeli/ Speights
    Rockets- Camby
    Clippers- Mullens/Hollins
    Lakers- Hill
    Grizzlies- Koufus
    Heat-Anderson/Oden
    Bucks-Zaza
    Timberwolves- Turiaf
    Pelcans-Stiemsa
    Knicks-Amare/Kenyon
    Thunder- Collison
    Magic- Maxiel
    76ers- Kwame
    Suns-One of the Morris'/Mile Plumlee
    Trailblazers- Mile Leonard
    Kings- Chuck Hayes
    Spurs- Diaw/Bonner
    Raptors- Aaron Gray
    Jazz-Biedrins
    Wizards- Seraphin

    I see maybe ten backups that would give West or Scola fits with their offense. Most of the backups would not be able to handle them in the post.

    I get a rim protector and all. But to say that you don't want Scola and West out there together at all because you want a rim protector is highly rigid. Situations will arise to allow them to play at center. Especially against the Pistons, Hawks, Celtics, Knicks, and Nets. If they can't exploit it, why not do it?

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