Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 126 to 150 of 175

Thread: Andrew Luck!!!!

  1. #126
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,475

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But don't Colts fans like to bring up the fact that Manning is number 2 on the all time career regular season wins list?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wi...back_%28NFL%29

    Any discussion about Manning's greatness is going to undoubtedly mention his team's incredible regular season success, as it should. In general, it seems as though Colt fans have no trouble using regular season team success to prop up Manning, but they want to throw team success out the window when the playoffs are brought up.

    Everything is important and should be brought into the debate. It's not an either/or thing. You can look at Brady and Manning's individual statistics, while also looking at their teams successes. In Brady and Manning's case, everything is super close except for the team success in the playoffs. That's enough to move the needle in Brady's favor, IMHO.

    If Manning had Brady's playoff record, then I have no doubt that it would be one of the first things that Colts fans would use in any debate.
    Sure team success should be part of the conversation, I haven't said it shouldn't be. I'm still waiting for an explaination as to why team measurables are more important than individual measurables, when comparing individuals.

    Whenever this argument is had, individual playoff numbers get put on the back burner, and they usually stay there, while number of rings, number of one and dones, etc, are all argued first.
    Last edited by Since86; 08-29-2013 at 01:28 PM.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  2. #127
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    17,505

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This is one of my favorite charts. It shows very well how Tom Brady's teams and Peyton Manning's teams have been virtually identical offensively during the postseason:

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...edition/21247/

    Brady's teams punt a little more while Manning's teams turn it over a little more. Manning's teams have had worse starting field position on average, but he has gained a little more yardage per drive than Brady's teams have, which is why their points per drive are virtually identical.

    Now should have Manning's offenses been better than Brady's offenses in the playoffs? Probably, but not quite as much as it would feel like on first instinct. Brady's offensive lines have almost always been better, and each have had inconsistent running games (Manning's in particular was awful in his later years with the Colts). Manning's receiving options on average have been quite a bit better, so it just depends on what you feel like you value more to determine how big the advantage was on talent around them.

    But what it does show is that the Colts losses have not been because the offense sputtered while the Patriots offense soared. They've been really close, but the Patriots defensive and special teams advantages have helped them win more postseason games.
    The fact that their playoff statistics are similar looks better for Brady. Think about it, Brady has played in three more Super Bowls and four more AFC Championship games. Those are presumably the most difficult of all playoff games.

    Brady has played in 24 playoff games. Of those 24 games, 7 have been the AFC championship game and 5 have been the Super Bowl. So half of Brady's playoff games have been either the AFCCC or Super Bowl. Manning has played in 20 playoff games. Of those 20, 3 of them have been AFC championship games and 2 of them have been Super Bowls. So 25% of his playoff games have either been the AFCCG or Super Bowl.

    Manning's numerous one and dones mean that the AFCCG and Super Bowl account for a relatively low percentage of his playoff games. OTOH, half of Brady's playoff games are either the AFCCG or Super Bowl. In essence, a far greater percentage of Brady's playoff games have been played against the super elite competition. Thus, the fact that their overall stats are similar is really a feather in Brady's cap as far as this debate is concerned. Brady has played in far more difficult games than Manning, yet has similar stats.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 08-29-2013 at 01:39 PM.

  3. #128
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    17,505

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sure team success should be part of the conversation, I haven't said it shouldn't be. I'm still waiting for an explaination as to why team measurables are more important than individual measurables, when comparing individuals.

    Whenever this argument is had, individual playoff numbers get put on the back burner, and they usually stay there, while number of rings, number of one and dones, etc, are all argued first.
    And I've never once said that team measurables are more important than individuals. As I said earlier, Eli has one more ring than Peyton, but there is no way he belongs in Peyton's class. Peyton is the superior QB for reasons that are pretty obvious.

    But as far as Manning and Brady are concerned, their individual achievements are very similar. Both are statistically similar, both have won a ton of regular season games, etc etc. So if you're comparing two guys who are so similar, you look for something that's different so that you can give one of them the edge. When looking at these two quarterbacks, everything is pretty similar aside from the glaring difference in team playoff success. That's enough to move the needle in Brady's favor, IMHO. That's not saying that team playoff success is more important than individual metrics, because like I said, Eli is nowhere near Peyton. But team playoff success is certainly important enough to move the needle when you're comparing two guys who are basically identical everywhere else.

  4. #129
    Member Pacergeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    3,630

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Peyton lost to some lousy "playoff" teams. A Miami team with Jay Fiedler as their QB, an 8-8 Charger team. I'm not saying we should've won more SB's, but we had too many one and done playoff runs
    David "And One" West

  5. #130
    Member presto123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Noblesville, IN.
    Posts
    3,246

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The body language is the exact same in those comebacks and in those defeats. Saying you can look at body language and tell how someone reacts under pressure, just doesn't realy make all that much sense when body language is constant eventhough outcomes differ.
    Totally disagree. Like I said before, I used to yell at the TV(get your head up Manning) when Manning would hang his head and shake his head back and forth after a bad play or interception. Looked like he almost wanted to cry. I can't count how many times I've seen this. Used to drive me crazy that his confidence could be shaken that easily.
    Last edited by presto123; 08-29-2013 at 01:44 PM.

  6. #131
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,475

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And I've never once said that team measurables are more important than individuals.
    I didn't say you did. It's an observation I'm making based on the history of this debate.

    When two players have similiar performances, and different team successes, it's a logical conclusion that the reason for the difference in team success would be the difference in the actual teams. That logic is usually rejected, and team success is trotted back out and waved in order to do so.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  7. #132
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,475

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Totally disagree. Like I said before, I used to yell at the TV(get your head up Manning) when Manning would hang his head and shake his head back and forth after a bad play or interception. Looked like he almost wanted to cry. I can't count how many times I've seen this. Used to drive me crazy that his confidence could be shaken that easily.
    I know what you mean, but his behavior was that way in the wins as well. It's anecdotal evidence that is completely dependent on the person watching the behavior.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  8. #133
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    17,505

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I didn't say you did. It's an observation I'm making based on the history of this debate.

    When two players have similiar performances, and different team successes, it's a logical conclusion that the reason for the difference in team success would be the difference in the actual teams. That logic is usually rejected, and team success is trotted back out and waved in order to do so.
    Let me ask, what metric can be used to argue that Manning is better?

  9. #134

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Imagine that ............ a Manning vs Brady discussion.

    I thought we were at least a year removed from those.

  10. #135
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,348

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Luck is a Colt... therefore he is better until proven otherwise...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  11. #136

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Peyton lost to some lousy "playoff" teams. A Miami team with Jay Fiedler as their QB, an 8-8 Charger team. I'm not saying we should've won more SB's, but we had too many one and done playoff runs
    In the NFL playoffs you only get one chance the best team doesn't always win but I don't get how anyone can blame Manning for that Miami game had Vanderjagt made that FG we would've won it. So would that been a good playoff win?

    Had Adam V missed all those SB FGs Brady would be ringless... I mean with this logic.

  12. #137
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,475

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Let me ask, what metric can be used to argue that Manning is better?
    For just postseason? Comp%, total yards, ypg. Peyton throws less INTs per game. And I know at one point, PM had a better QBrating.

    I know all the arguments against using them.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  13. #138

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The fact that their playoff statistics are similar looks better for Brady. Think about it, Brady has played in three more Super Bowls and four more AFC Championship games. Those are presumably the most difficult of all playoff games.

    Brady has played in 24 playoff games. Of those 24 games, 7 have been the AFC championship game and 5 have been the Super Bowl. So half of Brady's playoff games have been either the AFCCC or Super Bowl. Manning has played in 20 playoff games. Of those 20, 3 of them have been AFC championship games and 2 of them have been Super Bowls. So 25% of his playoff games have either been the AFCCG or Super Bowl.

    Manning's numerous one and dones mean that the AFCCG and Super Bowl account for a relatively low percentage of his playoff games. OTOH, half of Brady's playoff games are either the AFCCG or Super Bowl. In essence, a far greater percentage of Brady's playoff games have been played against the super elite competition. Thus, the fact that their overall stats are similar is really a feather in Brady's cap as far as this debate is concerned. Brady has played in far more difficult games than Manning, yet has similar stats.
    That's an interesting point. I'm curious to see if the defensive rankings of the teams facing them support that. I'm using football outsiders weighted defensive rankings on this for two reasons: One, they go back to 1999 to let us get the full sample. Second is that it gradually puts more importance on how a defense is playing as a season goes along, so it will do a little better of a job accurately showing what a team's defense is like at playoff time than a general defensive ranking would.

    Manning Rank Brady Rank
    99 Titans 19 01 Raiders 17
    00 Dolphins 5 01 Steelers 12
    02 Jets 22 01 Rams 4
    03 Broncos 14 03 Titans 7
    03 Chiefs 31 03 Colts 15
    03 Patriots 2 03 Panthers 11
    04 Broncos 5 04 Colts 17
    04 Patriots 7 04 Steelers 2
    05 Steelers 5 04 Eagles 13
    06 Chiefs 25 05 Jaguars 16
    06 Ravens 1 05 Broncos 7
    06 Patriots 4 06 Jets 28
    06 Bears 2 06 Chargers 17
    07 Chargers 1 06 Colts 24
    08 Chargers 20 07 Jaguars 13
    09 Ravens 5 07 Chargers 1
    09 Jets 1 07 Giants 11
    09 Saints 23 09 Ravens 5
    10 Jets 4 10 Jets 4
    12 Ravens 22 11 Broncos 16
    11 Ravens 6
    11 Giants 22
    12 Texans 5
    12 Ravens 22
    Average 10.9 12.3
    Average Wild/Division 12.4 12.7
    Average AFC Title/Super 6.4 11.9

    So you appear to be correct on the general point that if you take two QB's and one of them has had a higher percentage of title games/Super Bowls on their resume, they would likely be facing harder defenses. But in this case, Manning has still had statistically the harder defenses to face. And the reason for that is actually quite simple: 3 times they faced each other, and Manning has had substantially the harder task in those games than Brady has. Throw those three games out and Brady has faced harder defenses overall (something like 11.3 to 12.1). But Manning would also likely have the clear edge statistically if you throw those particular three out.

    After looking at the numbers, I don't think the premise that Brady's offenses have faced harder defenses than Manning's in the playoffs has very much weight to it.

  14. #139
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    17,505

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    For just postseason? Comp%, total yards, ypg. Peyton throws less INTs per game. And I know at one point, PM had a better QBrating.

    I know all the arguments against using them.
    But isn't it important to note that 50% of Brady's 24 playoff games have either been in the AFCCG (7) or Super Bowl (5), whereas only 25% of Peyton's 20 playoff games have been in those two games (3 AFCCG and 2 SB)? Brady has unquestionably faced tougher competition in his playoff career because his teams have routinely advanced further.

    Manning has a slightly better postseason completion percentage: PM 63.2, TB 62.3

    Brady has more total yards: PM 5679, TB 5949 (Brady has played more games).

    Manning has better YPG: PM: 283.95, TB 247.88

    Brady has slightly more touchdowns per game: PM 1.6, TB 1.75

    Manning has thrown more picks per game: PM 1.05, TB .92

    I don't know what the exact passer ratings are, but Fox has Manning at an 88 and Brady an 87.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/...peyton-manning

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/...on&q=tom-brady

    There aren't many glaring differences in the overall stats. Brady is slightly better at some things while Manning is slightly better at others. But like I said, it's super important to note that a much higher percentage of Brady's playoff games have been played in either the AFCCG or Super Bowl. So while his overall stats are similar to Mannings, they are also "better" because of that fact, IMHO.

  15. #140
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,475

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Team defense doesn't necessarily get better as the playoffs progress. Theoretically, I understand the arugment, but it just doesn't happen that way in reality.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  16. #141
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    17,505

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's an interesting point. I'm curious to see if the defensive rankings of the teams facing them support that. I'm using football outsiders weighted defensive rankings on this for two reasons: One, they go back to 1999 to let us get the full sample. Second is that it gradually puts more importance on how a defense is playing as a season goes along, so it will do a little better of a job accurately showing what a team's defense is like at playoff time than a general defensive ranking would.

    Manning Rank Brady Rank
    99 Titans 19 01 Raiders 17
    00 Dolphins 5 01 Steelers 12
    02 Jets 22 01 Rams 4
    03 Broncos 14 03 Titans 7
    03 Chiefs 31 03 Colts 15
    03 Patriots 2 03 Panthers 11
    04 Broncos 5 04 Colts 17
    04 Patriots 7 04 Steelers 2
    05 Steelers 5 04 Eagles 13
    06 Chiefs 25 05 Jaguars 16
    06 Ravens 1 05 Broncos 7
    06 Patriots 4 06 Jets 28
    06 Bears 2 06 Chargers 17
    07 Chargers 1 06 Colts 24
    08 Chargers 20 07 Jaguars 13
    09 Ravens 5 07 Chargers 1
    09 Jets 1 07 Giants 11
    09 Saints 23 09 Ravens 5
    10 Jets 4 10 Jets 4
    12 Ravens 22 11 Broncos 16
    11 Ravens 6
    11 Giants 22
    12 Texans 5
    12 Ravens 22
    Average 10.9 12.3
    Average Wild/Division 12.4 12.7
    Average AFC Title/Super 6.4 11.9

    So you appear to be correct on the general point that if you take two QB's and one of them has had a higher percentage of title games/Super Bowls on their resume, they would likely be facing harder defenses. But in this case, Manning has still had statistically the harder defenses to face. And the reason for that is actually quite simple: 3 times they faced each other, and Manning has had substantially the harder task in those games than Brady has. Throw those three games out and Brady has faced harder defenses overall (something like 11.3 to 12.1). But Manning would also likely have the clear edge statistically if you throw those particular three out.

    After looking at the numbers, I don't think the premise that Brady's offenses have faced harder defenses than Manning's in the playoffs has very much weight to it.
    Thanks for running the numbers. That's an interesting chart.

    The rankings of the defenses certainly are valuable. But I don't think you can put a numerical value on the intensity of a conference championship game or Super Bowl. Obviously every playoff game is win or go home, but as a Colts fan I can certainly say that the three conference championship games and two Super Bowls that we played in felt far more intense than say a wildcard game against the Chargers, even though everything is at stake no matter what. I'm sure the players feel that way too.

    Also, these rankings should be taken with a grain of salt like everything else. For instance, the Ravens had the 22nd best defensive ranking last year, thanks in large part to the Lewis injury and other factors. But they were obviously way better than the 22nd best by the time the playoffs rolled around. That's not that big a deal as far as this debate is concerned because both Manning and Brady ran into them, but it shows that things can change once the playoffs roll around.

    Also, that Giants defensive that Brady lost to in the 2011 Super Bowl was also ranked 22nd best. But they were clearly playing way better than that in the playoffs. They held Atlanta to 2 points, 15-1 GB to 20, SF 17, and NE 17. Things change in the playoffs once teams get healthy and have a fire lit under their a**.

  17. #142

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Thanks for running the numbers. That's an interesting chart.

    The rankings of the defenses certainly are valuable. But I don't think you can put a numerical value on the intensity of a conference championship game or Super Bowl. Obviously every playoff game is win or go home, but as a Colts fan I can certainly say that the three conference championship games and two Super Bowls that we played in felt far more intense than say a wildcard game against the Chargers, even though everything is at stake no matter what. I'm sure the players feel that way too.

    Also, these rankings should be taken with a grain of salt like everything else. For instance, the Ravens had the 22nd best defensive ranking last year, thanks in large part to the Lewis injury and other factors. But they were obviously way better than the 22nd best by the time the playoffs rolled around. That's not that big a deal as far as this debate is concerned because both Manning and Brady ran into them, but it shows that things can change once the playoffs roll around.

    Also, that Giants defensive that Brady lost to in the 2011 Super Bowl was also ranked 22nd best. But they were clearly playing way better than that in the playoffs. They held Atlanta to 2 points, 15-1 GB to 20, SF 17, and NE 17. Things change in the playoffs once teams get healthy and have a fire lit under their a**.
    I don't think you can put a numerical value on the intensity either, but I'm not sure there should be any bonus given because of that. One because it affects both teams so there's no great way to measure where it makes putting up good numbers easier or harder for a particular player, and also because as you said you're comparing it to another high intensity situation of other playoff games. We know that because it's the playoffs there's no situation where teams aren't pulling out the stops to try to win the game, so without evidence I'm not sure that just going from round to round will suppress statistical numbers across the board. But I'd be fascinated if somebody ever did the research on that.

    As for each individual ranking, I would agree that they get an incomplete snapshot of how teams defenses actually were in the playoffs, and there are a few on each side that I could point to that I feel need to have asterisks by them. Overall though, they are probably the best picture we have without going back and doing much more research on every individual team, injuries, etc.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Cubs231721 For This Useful Post:


  19. #143

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Back when NE won their SBs, their defense was vicious. They played tough, grabby football (which really pissed Polian off ended up leading to the really beneficial rules we have now for receivers) and made it difficult to score. If Peyton had gotten a defense like that he would have won multiple SBs.

    But at least we didn't cheat for our win.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Suaveness For This Useful Post:


  21. #144
    Member presto123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Noblesville, IN.
    Posts
    3,246

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Like I said, when you are one of the NFL's poster boy QB's you will largely be judged on your post season record. Not saying it is right in such a team sport as football, but it is what it is. A lot of public perception is that Peyton is a one and done QB. He didn't do himself any favors by that untimely interception last season in the playoffs. Pressure is on Manning big time right now. Maybe as much as it ever has been.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to presto123 For This Useful Post:


  23. #145
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    28
    Posts
    5,343

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Like I said, when you are one of the NFL's poster boy QB's you will largely be judged on your post season record. Not saying it is right in such a team sport as football, but it is what it is. A lot of public perception is that Peyton is a one and done QB. He didn't do himself any favors by that untimely interception last season in the playoffs. Pressure is on Manning big time right now. Maybe as much as it ever has been.
    He also didn't do himself any favors by having his defense inexplicably let Jacoby Jones behind them with the Ravens needing to go 70 yards in less than a minute.

    Or by having John Fox inexplicably decide to kneel on the ball to go to overtime immediately following said touchdown.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to BRushWithDeath For This Useful Post:


  25. #146
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    17,505

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He also didn't do himself any favors by having his defense inexplicably let Jacoby Jones behind them with the Ravens needing to go 70 yards in less than a minute.

    Or by having John Fox inexplicably decide to kneel on the ball to go to overtime immediately following said touchdown.
    But he also had two major favors with his Special Teams giving him 14 points off of returns.

    That's just an NFL playoff game for ya, a mixture of good and bad breaks.

    I agree that the Fox decision wasn't as much of a "bad break" as much as it was stupidity. He should have let Manning try to win the game there.

  26. #147

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Like I said, when you are one of the NFL's poster boy QB's you will largely be judged on your post season record. Not saying it is right in such a team sport as football, but it is what it is. A lot of public perception is that Peyton is a one and done QB. He didn't do himself any favors by that untimely interception last season in the playoffs. Pressure is on Manning big time right now. Maybe as much as it ever has been.
    Yeah sure and lets say he wins another SB this year then the same exact narrative will play out again the year after that... Not saying that there aren't expectations for him I mean if there weren't that would be surprising but the media needs their narrative and I wonder who they'll turn to after he retires...

  27. #148
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,348

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But he also had two major favors with his Special Teams giving him 14 points off of returns.

    That's just an NFL playoff game for ya, a mixture of good and bad breaks.

    I agree that the Fox decision wasn't as much of a "bad break" as much as it was stupidity. He should have let Manning try to win the game there.
    I'm not sure Manning could 'win' the game there at the end.... With no evidence what-so-ever to back it up I am always going to believe Manning didn't have the arm to come out chucking it or go long at the end. Or at least Fox didn't trust he did and I don't think he would do that without some credible evidence to lead him to believe that.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  28. #149
    Member presto123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Noblesville, IN.
    Posts
    3,246

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    Well if the Colts get eliminated or miss the playoffs and Manning is still alive I'm all in. Would love to see Peyton get another ring but not at the expense of the Colts.

  29. #150
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Richmond, IN
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,650

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Andrew Luck!!!!

    The Playoffs are just an entirely different animal. The year we lost to the Chargers in OT at San Diego was just like all of the worst luck coming at you at once. I don't think we had Bob "Mr. Glass" Sanders in that game. Then something that never happens, happened, a punter was basically MVP of a football game.

    Their punter had a career game for them. THEIR PUNTER. Scifers or something like that. Every punt he kicked was downed in our own 5-10 yard line. I remember one drive we had and things were going good then Marvin Harrison who was basically held out the last 8 games of the regular season and finally came back for this game, was catching a pass in the redzone or something and as soon as he got hit, he fumbled.

    So yeah, the Chargers were 8-8 and we were probably the better team on paper, but that's just not how it works all the time.

    To be honest I think Peyton has just had a lot of bad luck in the playoffs and teams that probably weren't even supposed to be there if it weren't for him. It'd be such a different story had Hank Baskett knew how to catch a football and we recovered the New Orleans Frauds onside kick. Might have kept momentum at our side just enough to squeeze out a win, even though by the end of halftime Freeney was useless because of his ankle. That Super Bowl loss was probably the toughest thing I have had to deal with as a fan. Didn't help the Frauds were immediately crowned America's team and we never heard the end of it.
    Super Bowl XLI Champions
    2000 Eastern Conference Champions





Similar Threads

  1. Andrew Luck on the cover of SI
    By Basketball Fan in forum Indianapolis Colts
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-28-2012, 11:15 AM
  2. Andrew Luck mad Ol'blue look like an idiot
    By AugustinGrangerHill in forum Indianapolis Colts
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-07-2012, 08:05 PM
  3. Andrew Luck's arm strength??
    By RWB in forum Indianapolis Colts
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-26-2012, 05:13 PM
  4. Poor Andrew Luck???
    By RWB in forum Indianapolis Colts
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 03-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  5. Andrew Luck Thread
    By Foul on Smits in forum Indianapolis Colts
    Replies: 119
    Last Post: 11-21-2011, 11:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •