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Thread: Lance as a free agent

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    If he wants to go somewhere else for the same money so he can put up more shots then don't let the door hit you.
    Would you really feel that way about him putting up more shots if he continued to have a better percentage than all our other guards and small forwards?
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Would you really feel that way about him putting up more shots if he continued to have a better percentage than all our other guards and small forwards?
    That's not what I said, it's a completely different discussion. Give him PG's usage rate and yeah, let's see his percentages.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    That's not what I said, it's a completely different discussion. Give him PG's usage rate and yeah, let's see his percentages.
    Oh, then we agree completely.

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    It only takes one GM to love a guy to get him paid. I mean Drew Gooden for example everyone but the Bucks though he wasn't worth MLE money not even close but he got it. However the new CBA will kill a lot of those types of deals IMO. Paying a role player MLE rarely turns out to be a good deal under the old CBA. I honestly have no idea a team will offer Lance. Due to age and upside probably more than we think. With that said I bet some teams still have him red flagged I know when he came out he was red flagged by nearly every team.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    It only takes one GM to love a guy to get him paid. I mean Drew Gooden for example everyone but the Bucks though he wasn't worth MLE money not even close but he got it. However the new CBA will kill a lot of those types of deals IMO. Paying a role player MLE rarely turns out to be a good deal under the old CBA. I honestly have no idea a team will offer Lance. Due to age and upside probably more than we think. With that said I bet some teams still have him red flagged I know when he came out he was red flagged by nearly every team.
    I agree. I think that there will be a team out there who thinks that his potential has been held back because he is on a stacked team with Paul George, David West, Roy Hibbert, George Hill, and (hopefully) Granger this year. I have a feeling that someone out there will see him as a budding young talent who has the potential to explode if on a team where he could get more opportunity.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    lance isnt getting 8 million a year.

    he has a poor jump shot and is vastly overrated on this forum almost to the point where it's starting to become annoying.
    You're dead on with this and I knew this is where this thread would go just like the last few on this subject.
    Lance grew a lot last year from a guy I never thought would stay in the nba to a guy that has a long term future. He's still an undersized 2 guard that averaged 8 ppg in big minutes and he isn't getting 8 mil per year from any team. Lance is still very inconsistent but I think he'll cut back on the mistakes this year. I see Lance as a solid contributor that is never going to be a great scorer or assist guy just solid which is o.k., every player doesn't have to be an all star, but these are the guys that won't net big paydays in the current cba. If we look around teams aren't even using their full MLE's on a single player very much anymore and teams that have worked to get under the cap are going after much bigger fish with their cap space. Gone are the days that teams over the L.T. would bring in a player using their full MLE every year, these teams don't even have a real MLE and wouldn't use it if they could due to the penalties. Lance isn't getting 8 mil any more then David West was getting 18 mil which many thought he would. I'd say somewhere between Copeland money and 5 mil per year will land him and we should be able to afford that. I'm not worried about losing Lance.

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  10. #32
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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Lance grew a lot last year from a guy I never thought would stay in the nba to a guy that has a long term future.
    Well, I guess your prognosticating record with Lance is a little weak at this point, eh?
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  12. #33

    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Just saw this in Mark Montieth's new mailbag so I thought I'd toss it on the pile.

    Q. The way I read cbafaq.com Lance is not eligible for an extension until next summer because he isn't on a rookie contract.We may have no choice but to let him become a free agent and test the market. You might check that out.

    Also, there is a difference of opinion on the internet as to whether Scola's contract is partially guaranteed or became fully guaranteed when he went through the amnesty waiver process. If you can get the official word and slip it into a story, it would be appreciated.

    - Frank


    A. Lance is eligible for an extension now, but with a second-round contract he can only get a raise of 7.5%. It wouldn't make sense for him to sign that contract. If he continues to make the kind of improvement he showed last year, he'll be able to command much more than that. So much, in fact, that it might be difficult for the Pacers to re-sign him.

    The final year of Scola's contract is partially guaranteed. It's a great deal for the Pacers, because he's also getting $5.7 million this season from Houston, who amnestied him a year ago. In fact, Scola will be Houston's third-highest paid player next season, although he'll be playing for the Pacers.
    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/marks...filling-roster

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Lance was one of 5 players worth half a **** on a team that came within a game of going to the NBA finals, he is pretty good and certainly better than hot garbage like JR Smith. He's a good playmaker, great finisher inside, great break starter, elite rebounder, and strong defender. His jumper is pretty awful and he is prone to disappear and/or play out of control, but these aren't uncommon for 22 year olds at this level. I think he should be at least a more dynamic version of Tony Allen if nothing else (already is really and Allen just got MLE money at age 32 - 36) and probably has a true ceiling in the area near Dwayne Wade if he can figure out how to excel in half court offense.


    Yeah, I'd probably invest 8 mil in Lance if I had to. But if you think it's wiser to base the decision on his PPG as a 5th option then...okay.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    $8M seems like way too much. I think $4M-$6M range.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    I hope we can get him for about 4/22. but if another team pushed i'd go to 28-30 provided he is healthy and improves...which he would if a team pushes that hard, you have to assume.

  19. #37

    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    JR Smith fg%: 42 percent
    Lance fg%: 46 percent

    Lance is a better defender, rebounder, and passer and has not reached his ceiling.

    I know I would pay Lance a lot more.
    I wanted to reply to the poster that said since JR Smith got this much money, Lance will get less because he isn't as good with a similar rebuttal. I would take Lance over JR Smith 10 times out of 10. Lance is actually more valuable than Smith at this point, Indiana just has one of the biggest salary steals in the NBA last year and this coming year. If they don't pay him after he continues to progress this year then the FO is the only one's not living up to their part of the deal. Lance performed like an 8 million dollar man last year regardless of what stats say and was paid like a million bucks. If he plays better this year? We would be lucky to lock him up for 8 per with PG and Hibbert in their primes and West still performing...I don't know if is it possible, but if I'm in the front office I lock up Lance to a George Hill type of contract this year, and then throw the max at PG and offer Granger what is left next year.

    The way people feel about Lance reminds me of just three years ago when a good deal of posters around here proclaimed us one of if not the least "talented" team in the NBA. After just drafting Lance and PG, and having Hibbert and Granger on the team. I looked at it as a boatload of potential talent, maybe the most untapped talent in the NBA. Now people look at Lance and a majority say he is worth MLE money. LMFAO. Lance has definitely been undervalued here since day one so this notion he is overvalued is laughable.

    You take Lance off the team last year and Indiana doesn't take Miami to game 7 in the ECF, and I'm very doubtful they would have made it there at all...Lance was an upgrade over Granger, and this team will regress if they lessen Lance's role for Granger. That's why I recently proclaimed on here Danny's ceiling is now Jamal Crawford. Deadly shooting assassin 6th man of the year candidate. Putting up huge number in limited minutes, per 36 scoring numbers out of this world. That will win us a championship. I fear we will not go as far in the playoffs if DG is playing 40 minutes per night and Lance 8.

    Lance made a million dollars last year and without him we would not have even sniffed the ECF. Granger made like 13 million bucks and did absolutely nothing outside of being a lock room leader. If you can't see who we owe more to at this point then I give up trying to convince you. We've paid Granger enough to retire a really rich man if he was smart with his money. My loyalty says we owe more to Lance at this point...
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 08-20-2013 at 01:46 PM.

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  21. #38

    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    I think everyone knows that JR Smith is paid less than the average 6th man of the year since he can be a complete headache both on and off the court. Similar to say players like Artest and Stephen Jackson.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    JR Smith is inefficient and a bad defender and not particularly like either of those dudes as a player.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Jukeb0xHero View Post
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    Lance was one of 5 players worth half a **** on a team that came within a game of going to the NBA finals, he is pretty good and certainly better than hot garbage like JR Smith. He's a good playmaker, great finisher inside, great break starter, elite rebounder, and strong defender. His jumper is pretty awful and he is prone to disappear and/or play out of control, but these aren't uncommon for 22 year olds at this level. I think he should be at least a more dynamic version of Tony Allen if nothing else (already is really and Allen just got MLE money at age 32 - 36) and probably has a true ceiling in the area near Dwayne Wade if he can figure out how to excel in half court offense.


    Yeah, I'd probably invest 8 mil in Lance if I had to. But if you think it's wiser to base the decision on his PPG as a 5th option then...okay.
    I think you're reaching a bit when you say Lance's ceiling is D.Wade. D.Wade is a HOF, top 5-ish 2Guard of all time. He's been pretty damn special since day one. So when people say something regarding 8ppg--its when you compare him to a HOF guy like D.Wade.

    So lets compare him to what he's been - a glue guy/role player at the 2guard.

    It's not his PPG as a 5th option why people say that he isn't worth 8M/yr; it's recent NBA salary history. Guys like JJ Redick (great shooter) Lou Williams (great 6th man scorer) and Tony Allen (great defender) all got between 5 and 6mil a yr. A guy that's somewhat similar to Lance in Wes Matthews (thick bodied 2-guard, 2nd round pick, aggressive game) received under 7 Mil a yr as well. As it stands right now Lance is not as good as any of those players--so that in itself puts him out of the question for 8 million PLUS on a team that's strapped for cash like the Pacers. He COULD be better than these guys eventually, but we honestly don't know what he'll become.

    As much as his biggest fans like to say "it's more than about scoring" (which is true) the truth is that current NBA salaries show that a 2-guard that's making anything over 7 mil a year, better be a damn good player and a serious threat offensively. Glue guys or role players aren't making 8 mil.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    He is soooo overrated, yet he was the primary reason we got past NY. Game 6, when the chips were on the table, and this was a must win game, Lance showed up and carried us to a victory. He was also THE ONLY guy that was ready for game 7 vs Miami. If anything, he is underrated
    You cant look at ONE or two games where he did very well and say he's great; you need to look at his overall work of art. He was efficient within his limited role, and brought great energy and enthusiasm. He also had a pretty inconsistent jumpshot, and wasn't able to consistently score offensively outside of fast breaks, wide open 3's, and occasional ISO's.

    All in all he's a very good glue guy/role player, but we don't know what he is with more of an offensive burden, and with defenses more focused on him. People on this board are comparing him to D.Wade (a future HOF'er). He's overrated by some on this board, underrated by some, but I feel he's properly rated by the majority.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    I love Lance, but I would not give him more than 6 mil per year. Hopefully less at around 4 or 5 mil. Some of you need to look around the league and see what role players are getting paid now days...I feel like Lance is starting to become overrated on this board...there's no way in hell I'd give him 8 mil per.

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  30. #43
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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    JR Smith fg%: 42 percent
    Lance fg%: 46 percent

    Lance is a better defender, rebounder, and passer and has not reached his ceiling.

    I know I would pay Lance a lot more.
    1. Lance shooting %s went down to about 40% once he started shooting more. 2. He benefited from getting so many open looks early in the season. I'm sure if Lance shot as much as JR, their shooting %s would be nearly the same. 3. PG also shot 42%.

    I wouldn't pay Lance more than JR. I'd just pay Lance what he deserves...and I feel that is really $4m-$6m/yr.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    He's still an undersized 2 guard
    Okay
    Last edited by Noodle; 08-20-2013 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Many of you are ignoring the LT and the liklihood that the Simon's won't go over it.

    Assuming that PG24 gets the MAX at something starting at $17.5 mil a year......Lance ( or Granger ) could get $6 mil a year. This should put the Pacers RIGHT at the LT of $75.7 mil with 12 Players.

    Between the 2 of them....I think that Lance will get a contract slightly over the LT. Probably something over the full MLE at a flat $6 mil a year for 4 years or ( more than likely ) $5 mil oveer 5 years. Hopefully PG24 would take $750k less so that it allows the Pacers to sign a 13th Player at the vet minimum to fill out the roster.

    BTW, on a related question....IMHO...the unfortunate and harsh reality that will decide whether the Pacers will keep Granger OR Lance isn't which is the better option.....it will be which one will take a $6 mil a year / 4 year Contract offer ( the amount that the Pacers can afford to pay either of them before hitting the LT Ceiling ).
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-20-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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  34. #46

    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Many of you are ignoring the LT and the liklihood that the Simon's won't go over it.

    Assuming that PG24 gets the MAX at something starting at $17.5 mil a year......Lance ( or Granger ) could get $6 mil a year. This should put the Pacers RIGHT at the LT of $75.7 mil with 12 Players.

    Between the 2 of them....I think that Lance will get a contract slightly over the LT. Probably something over the full MLE at a flat $6 mil a year for 4 years or ( more than likely ) $5 mil oveer 5 years. Hopefully PG24 would take $750k less so that it allows the Pacers to sign a 13th Player at the vet minimum to fill out the roster.

    BTW, on a related question....IMHO...the unfortunate and harsh reality that will decide whether the Pacers will keep Granger OR Lance isn't which is the better option.....it will be which one will take a $6 mil a year / 4 year Contract offer ( the amount that the Pacers can afford to pay either of them before hitting the LT Ceiling ).
    Or we may get rid of Scola, OJ, and Sloan because and that would leave us with around 13 million to spend. Even if we keep Scola we could still offer Lance 8 and be right at the luxury tax by parting ways with Sloan and OJ. But this is all hypothetical. Larry might trade Ian and Copeland for a cheap backup center and save 6 million. And then we keep Granger and Lance, or Lance and OJ. Or maybe we win the championship next year and Simon puts all of his chips in the basket for one more title run and crosses the luxury tax for a year because the money he will make off back to back rings will far outweigh the cost. You just never know. Who knows how much Simon would make off back to back rings and how much he would risk if the opportunity presents itself. Sure maybe Larry said we won't go into luxury tax at all, but I'd have to believe that option may change if it looks like the Pacers have a really good chance at defending their first title.

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Many of you are ignoring the LT and the liklihood that the Simon's won't go over it.
    Assuming that PG24 gets the MAX at something starting at $17.5 mil a year......Lance ( or Granger ) could get $6 mil a year. This should put the Pacers RIGHT at the LT of $75.7 mil with 12 Players.
    Between the 2 of them....I think that Lance will get a contract slightly over the LT. Probably something over the full MLE at a flat $6 mil a year for 4 years or ( more than likely ) $5 mil oveer 5 years. Hopefully PG24 would take $750k less so that it allows the Pacers to sign a 13th Player at the vet minimum to fill out the roster.
    BTW, on a related question....IMHO...the unfortunate and harsh reality that will decide whether the Pacers will keep Granger OR Lance isn't which is the better option.....it will be which one will take a $6 mil a year / 4 year Contract offer ( the amount that the Pacers can afford to pay either of them before hitting the LT Ceiling ).
    I hope you're right about the offers that Granger gets but I think it all depends on how healthy he is this year. No matter how well Granger plays I think he has no choice but to take a big paycut next year as his market value will dictate that. Of the 2 players I fear that Granger will be the one we can't afford. I could still see Granger getting an 8 mil offer from several teams and if he returns to form more like 10+ while I don't see Lance getting more then MLE. The only way Danny is more affordable then Lance would be if he's still unhealthy. What I really want is to be able to move Ian and Copeland and keep both Lance and Danny, or to see Simon go over the L.T. by just a little for 1 year. With the fact that 50% of the tax revenues still go to the team if we exceed the L.T., it's actually less expensive for the Pacers to go over the L.T. by 3-5 mil under the new cba then it was under the old one.

  36. #48

    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    With roughly $11 million worth of 2 year contracts on the roster and the trio of Hibbert, West, and G3 expiring the following year, I can see Simon dipping into Luxury Tax territory next season. Assuming we continue our recent success, Simon may be able to justify spending a little extra considering all of the benefits a winning team can bring to an owner in terms of ticket sales, merchandise, etc. And it could only be for one year.

    I'm on the bandwagon of signing that man to whatever he wants. Doesn't matter to me if it's $6 million, $8 million, or $10 million. His career stats also don't mean a damn thing to me... watching him on the court is truly amazing. His size, strength, athleticism, ball handling, energy, hustle, rebounding, aggressiveness... everything is just too incredible to not spend money on. I could be bias because I traveled 2,000 miles to watch Game 6 vs. NYK from the front row, but I don't really give a ****.

    I personally believe he will be unstoppable in 2-5 years given the right situation. I think it's pretty well documented that his current situation is by far his best situation. I'm not concerned about his past statistics, I'm more worried about his future statistics. Let him continue to grow with G3, Paul, West, Hibbert, and Solomon... the possibilities are endless.

    The thought of him in Bonkers Life 3 postseasons from now, bulldozing his way through defenses, and electrifying the crowd beyond the physical, literal, and theoretical levels of electricity is bringing a bone chilling tingle down my spine and change of underwear in my immediate future.

    TY Hilton is the next Marvin.
    Last edited by dgranger17; 08-20-2013 at 11:17 PM. Reason: The Colts are too good.

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  38. #49
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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    All you have to do is check out Lance's Vine page and see why he won't get an 8 mil deal.
    Protect the Promise!!!!

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    Default Re: Lance as a free agent

    Based off of last season alone, Lance gets something between Watson and Copeland. The facts are at this point Lance hasn't shown that much. He has had a few good games, and a single great game in the playoffs. Otherwise he has not been anything that would get an $8 million offer. There may be a GM out there that sees potential and is willing to pay him $4 or $5 million based on last year, but that is it. Lance was inconsistent at best. Offensively, where most players make their money, he didn't show half of what some people on here think he showed. He occasionally made a really nice move and beat his man, but most of the time he didn't. He only really had three weapons the open 3-pointer, backdoor cut to the basket, and the fast break. Otherwise he was mostly ineffective offensively. He showed a lot more defensively, but unless you are a center you aren't going to make a lot of money off of your defense. He played the role of a role player, he played it well, but that isn't going to get you $8 million from anyone especially under the new CBA.

    How much Lance makes though isn't going to be based on what he did this past season, but what he does next season. How Lance does next season is, well, as unpredictable as his play this past season was.

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