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Thread: The Sad thing is....

  1. #1
    Banned JOneal7's Avatar
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    Default The Sad thing is....

    We are pretty much banking our season on SJax coming back. That it will turn around somehow. Do you guys think if he couldn't get it done with Terry And Rahim..He can get it done with JO+Tins? Sure JOs better then rahim but tins isn't that much better then terry. I think you guys are overrating stephen jackson...And if we continue to lose when he gets back..then what? Trade? or do we then realize we need ron?
    Because with ron we were one of the best teams in the L!
    I think you guys HIGHLY underrate ron...

    FREE ARTEST

  2. #2
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    Very good post. I am amongst the "we can't win the title w/o Ron" folks, and though I think we'll be amongst the East's elite again when Jack comes back (not to mention Bender and Polly), I have a hard time envisioning us beating Phoenix, SA, etc. in a 7-game series w/o Ron's defense. As the Ron naysayers are starting to see, our defense isn't even close to what it was with Ron. I'm willing to take a wait and see approach until our full team (minus Ron) is back, but I don't have a good feeling...

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    You raise a good point.

    But first, I don't think that anyone here underrates Ron. People just know that there is a snowball's chance in hell of Ron coming back, so most of us have looked to life without Ron. Everyone knows how good he is, but no player is beneficial when he is suspended the entire season.

    You raise a good question about Stephen Jackson. Jackson is a player that fits into a good team system, but a player that can't really lead on his own. Jackson will help, but the problems with this team go well beyond anything he can immediately fix.

  4. #4
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    Let's be honest, our D wasn't that hot those first 9 games either.

  5. #5
    PacerFanInBayAreaCali
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    I don't think we're overrating Jackson. We're just praying that we've underrated him!

  6. #6
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    But you guys... JJ is starting now.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  7. #7
    PacerFanInBayAreaCali
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    And we won. But Curry still played more minutes.

  8. #8
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    I think you guys are underestimating SJax abilities. He sure seemed to help San Antonio in 2003 when they won it all and when he returns, he'll be the team's number one perimeter defender.

    I don't think you can hold Atlanta's losing record against him. Although he played with Terry and Abdur-Rahim, who else did they have? Atlanta's bench was paper thin last year. I'm also starting to believe that Abdur-Rahim is one of those players that, despite good numbers, just doesn't help your team win. Wherever he's played he hasn't made anyone else around him better.

    I think the Pacers are a playoff team without SJax but with him they'll be much better.

  9. #9
    Trace
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    I wouldn't compare Atlanta to Indiana in trying to predict what Jax can do for the team. There are a lot of differences. The Pacers have better coaching, quality roleplayers, plus JO is a MUCH better player than Shareef. Especially his leadership qualities.

    However, I'll admit that I may be pinning unrealistically high hopes on SJax returning and taking the team to a championship level.

  10. #10
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    Atlanta did not have good coaching either. Jermaine is a heck of a lot better than Rahim and Tinsley is better than Terry. Add Jeff's rebounding and D to a far better bench than Atlanta had and we are in better shape.

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    There's really no comparing the ATL staff/players with ours. Plus, there is something to be said for a winning/losing tradition. It carries it's own momentum both ways, which is why everyone was so happy for the Bengals last year for being less crappy than in previous seasons.

    I doubt we can win a championship this year, if for no other reason than the fact that we won't have home court adv. in the finals. I guess it would also depend on matchups. We would match up horribly versus the Suns, but I like our chances against the Spurs. And I really don't see anyone in the East that we can't beat in a 7 game series, if we've got our players back, healthy, and have good chemistry.

    There's a LOT of if's in there, though.

  12. #12
    Youman
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    The reason the Pacers Org. has to get rid of Ron is simple. Indiana is a very conservate state. The Pacers brass dose not want the bagage that Ron brings. They want to be looked as a role model in professionalsm, such as the Indianapolis Colts do.

    I was one of Ron's biggest supporters. I did not want him traded this summer, but now get him the HELL out! And to think Shawn Marion was being shoped around this summer.

    You can't tell me that J.O. wants him around or Bird, Walsh, & Carsile. They have had enough. And us fans have too. We need to ship him out.

    As for S-Jack being back...it's going to help. Jan. 26th and I can already hear Slick yellin' BOOM BABY!!!

  13. #13
    XXSASSXX31
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Youman
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    The reason the Pacers Org. has to get rid of Ron is simple. Indiana is a very conservate state. The Pacers brass dose not want the bagage that Ron brings. They want to be looked as a role model in professionalsm, such as the Indianapolis Colts do.

    I was one of Ron's biggest supporters. I did not want him traded this summer, but now get him the HELL out! And to think Shawn Marion was being shoped around this summer.

    You can't tell me that J.O. wants him around or Bird, Walsh, & Carsile. They have had enough. And us fans have too. We need to ship him out.

    As for S-Jack being back...it's going to help. Jan. 26th and I can already hear Slick yellin' BOOM BABY!!!
    That was a bunch of b.s. FU* this "convervative *****"...the Pacers are our basketball team and a lot of them grew from the inner city...we don't care...Ron will help us bring a championship and we are proud of him.

  14. #14
    Banned JOneal7's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    no...who cares about wins and finals rings and stuff? I mean...as long as we are good people! If jax has anymore problems I bet people on here will be wanting to ship him out for a nice guy alvin williams. LOL
    I mean, first round exits and being around the 500. mark are enough for this franchise...But having a guy with a little bit of edge is a big no no!

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    If we had the chance to trade Ron Artest + draft pick(s) + any player not in the top 8 of our rotation for The Matrix, let me be the first in line to choke Donnie Walsh.

    It's not that Marion is that much better offensively than Ron, and he's certainly not better defensively (he is a better shot-blocker). It's the fact that he's SUCH a great rebounder at SF that you could easily put him in there with JO and Harrison and still outboard the other team every game, and you'd have a large low post defender who can block shots. Or you could pair him with Foster and JO for horribly dominant rebounding against smaller lineups. But anyways, rebounding is far underrated. An offensive rebound is the same as a turnover, either way. If you are a +4 in turnovers, but a -8 in offensive rebounds, guess what? They still get 4 more posessions than you. And it takes far less of a gamble to get an O rebound than to pick off a pass. If you don't get the rebound, there should be at least 2 guys back on defense. If you miss on an attempted steal, it's 4 on 5 for a second, and your defense is broken.

  16. #16
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    I would trade Ron now for Marion aswell which automatically means we have to throw in extra stuff because of the salary difference, which is btw also the biggest problem I have with Marion, not his play, but his salary. But I would be willing to accept it by trading and if needed cutting others.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  17. #17

    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    I don't believe Shawn Marion for Ron Artest was a Pacers option this summer. For one thing Matrix makes a lot more than Ron. Almost five million more. To make a deal the Pacers would have been asked to add players they didn't want to lose. Like Freddie Jones or Jeff Foster; Phoenix was not about to take anything less.

    Regarding Ron Artest. I resent the implication that Ron is not a good person, a thug. Artest marches to the beat of his own drummer, true. And, he is a super competitor, but in no way is he a bad person. From what I can see, the hard-working, family oriented Artest has more so-called "Hoosier values" than most Hoosiers.

  18. #18
    Free Artest
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    Only way Indy has a serious chance at a championship with no Artest is if either Jackson or Bender blow up and become breakout stars.

  19. #19
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Regarding Ron Artest. I resent the implication that Ron is not a good person, a thug. Artest marches to the beat of his own drummer, true. And, he is a super competitor, but in no way is he a bad person. From what I can see, the hard-working, family oriented Artest has more so-called "Hoosier values" than most Hoosiers.
    I think the overwelming majority here aggrees with you on that, including me.

    Phoenix felt it needed a C desperately and Pollard has played uptempo basketball succesfully at Sacramento before, but true his first season here (last year)was awfull though, throw him and a pick in and they might have done it, had we approached them, which I think we probably didn't.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: The Sad thing is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    I think the overwelming majority here aggrees with you on that, including me.
    Me three. I also think that when he gets in an extremely intense comeptitive situation there's no predicting what he'll do.

    IOW, he should find another line of work.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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