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Thread: When the supensions first occured

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    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default When the supensions first occured

    Did the coaching staff have to change the way we played or did we keep the same game plan? I hope this makes sense. I was just wondering if RC had to change the game plan to fit these other guys individual talents or if he continued to run the same plays?

    If he did change the way we played offense or defense, would he now go back to the way we played before the supensions? Now that everyone is coming back?

  2. #2
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    The popular concern - right after the suspensions - was, "where would our points come from"? A little misguided - most of those guys were big-time scorers in college and many of us generally agree that if guys like Croshere, or JJ, or Gill, or Harrison., could defend/ rebound consistently they'd be regular members of the rotation, playing heavy minutes. But Rick turned that team loose, especially during the homestand over Thanksgiving. But then a couple of those guys were "solved", and banged up, and some of our alleged 'defensive stoppers' like AJ, Foster and Reggie returned to the active roster, so we went back to Rick's more traditional control-the-tempo approach.

    Not sure that answer made sense. I think, when SJax is back, this team will look a lot like last season's team, just with SJax in Ron's role.

    Not sure how well that will work with the impact of the rules changes that we're finally seeing, or offensive and defensive spacing. So Rick will make a few more small tweaks again, once everybody is back that will be coming back and he sees how that team adusts to life in the NBA during the 2004-05 season.
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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Did I just see the phrase "Defensive Stoppers" and "Reggie" in the same sentence???
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    Did I just see the phrase "Defensive Stoppers" and "Reggie" in the same sentence???
    Yes, but I think it was applied with sarcasm so I'll let it slide....


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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Not any more sarcasm for him than AJ and Foster... They were in the same sentence.

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Hold it I'm confused. Are you saying that Foster is or is not a defensive stopper?

    My sarcasm detector is off today so I don't know if you are saying he is or isn't?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Peck, Jay thinks Foster is a worse defender than you think he is. In fact I don't believe Jay thinks Foster is an asset as a defensive player. Jay's dead wrong, but that's OK

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    OMG, I killed Jay. And all because he does not like Foster's defense. I need some help

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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    OMG, I killed Jay. And all because he does not like Foster's defense. I need some help
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    /From the grave/

    I still prefer my post defenders play behind thier opponent, not ones that can only front the post. It was worth it.

    There's a long line here, but I'm hoping to ask the Big Guy on the throne if he'd rather see David Harrison play instead of Foster, too.

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  11. #11
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    David Harrison needs to play much more minutes.

    He and Fred Jones both need to be a much bigger part of the offense. Fred is great driving to the hoop, and has a reliable shot. David scores almost every time he gets the ball in good position, and has a nice touch around the basket.
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    /From the grave/

    I still prefer my post defenders play behind thier opponent, not ones that can only front the post. It was worth it.

    There's a long line here, but I'm hoping to ask the Big Guy on the throne if he'd rather see David Harrison play instead of Foster, too.

    Since you're already there & I really don't want to cut in line, would you kindly ask what the hell happen to Carlos Rogers?

    Anybody else have a question for Jay@theotherside?

  13. #13

    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    carlos was an impact pickup...championship type move

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Peck, Jay thinks Foster is a worse defender than you think he is. In fact I don't believe Jay thinks Foster is an asset as a defensive player. Jay's dead wrong, but that's OK
    Wow, I didn't think anybody thought Jeff was a worse defender than I did.

    Just kidding, I think he's ok, I just don't think he's the defensive stopper you make him out to be. But I agree with Jay in that I prefer my post defense to also be a shot blocking threat. Jeff just isn't that. I don't base my defense on blocked shots, but it is part of the arsenal.

  15. #15

    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Quote Originally Posted by abington
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    carlos was an impact pickup...championship type move
    I think he meant more along the lines of "Why did Carlos Rogers disappear halfway through the season, never to be seen or heard from again, with only the cryptic explanation of 'personal/family reasons' to explain his absence", correct?

  16. #16
    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    I've always thought that Jeff was a decent post defender, I mean not one to really intimidate, but pretty good at keeping his feet moving. Maybe even change a shot or two.

    As far as Harrison, I think that he may still be trying to swat those little birdies swirling around his noggin.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    David Harrison needs to play much more minutes.

    He and Fred Jones both need to be a much bigger part of the offense. Fred is great driving to the hoop, and has a reliable shot. David scores almost every time he gets the ball in good position, and has a nice touch around the basket.
    Sure, if he CAN stay enough minutes on the court without fouling out, I am all for that , also depending on which team we play, offcourse.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    I think Jeff and J.O make an excellent defensive tandem. Jeff guards the better offensive player and that frees J.O up to help out, block shots. When DH and J.O are on the floor, then J.O has to guard the better player and that takes him out of help position.

    Jay, Peck and anyone else, there is no way you can argue with what I have posted here. All you have to do is watch the final play of the game from Tuesday night to see what I mean

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Well to be honest UB I think it works both ways depending on the opposition, just look at Dampier vs Jeff when we were playing the Mave last week. Jeff was just too "light" for Damp.

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  20. #20
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    Dallas was a good example, but I thought Jeff was horrid vs. the Suns as well. To be fair to him everybody was horrid, but I thought he would have a better chance vs. them.

    Until the second half I thought he was less than stellar vs. the Grizz.

    Again, I think you misunderstand me about Jeff. I think he's an ok defender where as I think you put him on the same level as Ben Wallace & just short of Artest.

    He's ok, nothing special. My biggest problem was that since I didn't consider him to be the lockdown defender you do I always see/saw his flaws at everything else more.

    But this season he has done a much better job finishing around the basket than he has.

    But where we will disagree over & will until hell freezes over is that I don't consider him one bit better than Brad Miller on defense & thus Brad was better at everything else so whenever you would give the old J.O. & Jeff are the perfect combo I would just laugh because I think it's a joke to say that.

    But that' just my opinion & I could be wrong.

    I have no real qualms with Foster I just think you way way way over rate him on defense.

  21. #21
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    I don't really have that big of a problem with Jeff - I think he's an okay defender but his specialty is offensive rebounding, not defense. However, to me he's the easy illustration of why this team is still just too small, especially after getting smaller over the summer by trading Al for SJax and then losing both SJax and Ron for a gazillion games.

    JO and David are the best defensive combo, and the best offensive combo.

    I know David's a rook, commits too many fouls, etc. That's not my point.

    In fact, I feel so strongly about David's importance, he's already our best legit post defender, that I'd even argue that a combination of David and Jeff might be better defensive combo than JO and Jeff.

    I suppose a neutral observer could just say that I over-value David as much as UB over-values Jeff.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  22. #22
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    For me it's to soon to just turn the keys totally over to the Hulk. However I do want to see him get lots of min. & yes that means at the expense of Croshere.

    How do you feel the combo of J.O. & D.H. work on offense? Are you worried about them both playing in the same spot on the floor? I'm not but I may be wrong not to be worried.

  23. #23
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    I think it'll be fine, I have the same opinion of JO and David for offensive spacing as I had for JO and Dampier. A long as the two of them rotate properly through the interior triangle (right block, left block, high post) they should be okay.

    JO's versatility is what makes this workable. He's equally comfortable with either hand in the low post, and I've noticed him looking much more comfortable in the high post this season. JO's versatility allows David to pick his 'sweet spots' without worrying about the problem of having David's effectiveness neutralize JO's effectiveness.

    Just my ; agree? disagree? other thoughts?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  24. #24
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    DH and J.O. on offense is an excellent combo. No problems there at all. DH can hit a 12 foot face up jumper. J.O can no go inside or out. That will cause all kinds of matchup problems.

    You need to keep in mind, I have already gone on record as saying that DH will replace Jeff in the starting lineup at some point next season. (not due to injury) This is assuming DH gets in better condition and improves at a normal rate.

    Having said that, I worry about the defense. J.O will be forced to play the smaller quicker guys and that will bring him away from the basket

  25. #25
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    Default Re: When the supensions first occured

    I thought you believed that Jeff was "drawing" the other team's best post player, defensively. If so, then Jermaine isn't impacted by this change, right? (Note the use of the word "impacted" ).

    Or are you now agreeing with me that JO usually defends the other team's primary post option, not Jeff?

    I think the biggest difference between me, you and Peck on this topic - we agree that in long run, the combo of David and JO seems optimal - is just how quickly each of us would make the change. I'd make it now, because my confidence that this is *the season* is decreasing - not down to the levels of everybody moaning that, 'without Ron we don't have a chance', but after what we've seen of the Western Conference this season, I don't like the East's chance to repeat, regardless of who represents the East. So I'd rather throw David 'into the fire' so that he fully knows what he needs to work on in the offseason. Secondarily, I also believe its going to take significant contributions from David in this season's playoffs if the Pacers are going to win the ECF/ have a chance to compete against those fast yet big WC teams.

    I keep thinking about Tinsley - it took him several seasons to figure out just what being in "NBA condition" means. I think David is willing to do the work to get there, and he's obviously not there now, but he also needs to understand just how much his conditioning needs to improve. Tinsley worked hard every summer and declared himself to be in the best shape of his life several years in a row, and still broke down. I would make me very sad if David repeated that cycle.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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