Not a good night. I should have drank.
Not a good night. I should have drank.
Thank heavens I didn't waste my time watching. I did not give up on this season too early. On the other hand, maybe I didn't give up early enough. The wrath of Crean is just hitting its stride now.
I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
NIT bound baby!
maybe clappy can coach them to a win or 2 there!
eh, this is just going to be a very rough season (as if it weren't already)
crean teams just don't get better as the season progresses. still got plenty of good teams left to face and i don't feel remotely confident about any of them.
Sorry, but a 15-16 win season in YEAR SIX is NOT acceptable.
Crean's seat needs to be warm.
Two NCAA appearances in six years is just unacceptable. This program is in severe danger of losing it's relevancy. We'll always have the tradition and banners, but sooooooo many programs have leapfrogged us over the last 20 years.
It's not 2010 anymore. These results just aren't good.
Reality has set in for our women's program too. They have lost 6 of their last 7 and are now 15-6 and 2-6 in B1G play. Still an amazing year considering it's mostly freshmen playing key roles.
The thing that is amazing about Crean is that he has somehow managed to get worse as a coach every year. The Sweet 16 year where we lost to Kentucky he was actually semi competent. Our offense had movement and something resembling a game plan. Now we are back to Mike Davis ball. Stand around the perimeter and **** our pants for 30 seconds then hop we find ourselves a shot in a panicky final 5 seconds.
Crean is just so inflexible. He needs good shooters and he needs experienced players. He had both the last two seasons and we went 56-16. This year we have neither (which is his fault) and he isn't capable of adapting. It's incredibly frustrating.
i haven't kept up with the word on the new guys coming in but it's getting to the point where i'm not sure it will make much of a difference.
anyways, i came upon a blog written by a Marquette fan from several years ago. and i read the final post in it. the things he mentions in regards to the woes of creans style are pretty identical to those who are critical of ctc.
check out the final entry called 'reasoning'.
in it, you will see his complaints about things like the offense going incredibly long periods where it just cannot score-at all because the other team shut down the fast break.
how they cannot run anything but a 3 man weave far from the basket and end up with a terrible shot in half court.
no screens or picks at all etc.
here it is:
Last edited by clownskull; 01-31-2014 at 05:22 PM.
Holy crap. That is jarring.
While we're on the topic of offensive woes, I'm sure you all remember that we were shut out for the first 9:30 of our opening round loss to Michigan State in the NCAA tournament this year. We didn't score a single point. This is because our half court offensive philosophy right now is to run a three man weave 25 feet from the basket until we can either hoist up a bad 3, get one of our big guys to set a moving screen, or drive to the basket, get fouled, and then miss both free throws. We run this play every time down the court if we're not on a fast break. Any team that plays a zone against us is almost guaranteed a victory. We simply cannot score while running a half court offense. Maybe it's because we don't set any screens, maybe it's because we don't know what a pick and roll is because we've never successfully executed a pick, or maybe it's because no one makes the back door cut to the basket until James has 15 points because they know he's not going to pass it to them anyway. I don't know, and I guarantee you Tommy is too busy drinking Diet Pepsis and telling James to keep shooting to figure it out.
Crean's just not a very good coach. Wade's 2003 performance fooled people into thinking that Crean was a way better coach than he actually is. You take Wade out of the picture and this guy really hasn't accomplished too much. Outside of Wade, he was able to recruit Zeller/Oladipo to Indiana and helped revitalize the program for a couple of years, but that era will always be a bit scarred by the early tournament exit with two top four NBA draft picks.
Tom Crean Elite 8's without Dwyane Wade: ZERO. This guy is what he is - an extremely mediocre head coach with a pretty average resume that is propped up by having a player who went on to become one of the greatest in NBA history.
Last edited by Sollozzo; 01-31-2014 at 09:01 PM.
I don't really know how to explain the point I am trying to make, but I will give it a go...
Stevens has a hell of a defensive scheme and does a great job of putting his players in the best position to win , but no he never won games IMO. He defiantly improved his teams chances of winning due to how damn good he is at scouting and implementing a game plan, but I can't say he won any game his players made plays when they needed to, He has always had some good talent.
also on the Cuse game we have went over this everyone had an off night outside of Vic. It happens sometimes, if the team came out and everyone went 70% from the field would we be crediting Crean for a great plan? Or would we credit the players for making difficult 3s? It is really hard for me to put that game on Crean. The players were awful that game was on everyone.
Look I want to be a coach(and love Xs and Os), but the actual on court coaching and in game coaching is very overrated. I am a big believer in player development and practice and being about a process of getting better and finding the right people, and normally good things will happen. Recruiting and so much luck involved in college basketball coaching. I will say it again I am not a fan of how Crean coaches Xs and Os wise, but he is a very good guy to have due to his motivation and recruiting. I say the same thing about Cal at UK I hate the way he coaches basketball(I hate the dribble drive I think it is a massive waste) But would I fire Cal because he isn't a good "coach"?? Hell No he is a great coach because of what he brings off the floor and how his players get better throughout the year and how he can recruit.
All I know is I would rather have a terrible coach and a few all Americans than a good coach and no all Americans. Ideally you get both, but a terrible coach with players normally considered a good coach.
I have a feeling you won't get my point. I really can't explain this very well.
Crean got a pass when he probably shouldn't have early on at IU. That first season would've been hard for anyone but he had some advantages coaching at Indiana, sanctions or not, that he wasn't able to capitalize on those first few years. We just never saw any of those games where we thought he had an undermanned IU team ultra-prepared and able to throw a scare into someone.
But in Indiana he should've been able to have recruited some hard-nosed, blue collar players fairly quickly that in other years might not have had the chance to play at IU so would've have jumped at the chance. Add a diamond in the rough or two. A juco player or two looking to play in the big time of the Big Ten. Ultimately, decently balanced and coachable team that could be made into something that wasn't going to win a championship but who could at least be a solid team that would give it their all and follow a solid gameplan that could trip up a team or two along the way. A team that would/could/should lay the foundation for what was to come.
That just wasn't there. And that should've been our first clue there wasn't going to be much substance in the Crean era. Now, he continued to sell the program and finally got some blue chippers in there... But can we really say he got all out of that class he should've on the court? And for having a shooter like Hulls he did a pizz poor job of running plays to get him open... or softening the middle with Hulls to get Zeller going. And Olidepo(sp?) was really the wildcard that allowed broken plays and making something from nothing to push IU over the top. But I can't say those players were ever really 'well-coached' as much as Crean just let them freelance while he worked on his mad substitution patterns.
IOW... Crean NEEDS blue chippers for ANY success.
His style is so erratic that I'm not convinced he'll ever bother recruiting a team with balance as a goal and instead just look for talent regardless if that leaves the team with a glut of guards and no front court depth. Which just makes things worse.
And as these flaws get more obvious... as the howls of disapproval grow louder... as the losses mount.... Blue chippers won't be heading to IU with the needed regularity to maintain relevancy. And with a school with the rich tradition of IU, relevancy just shouldn't be a problem IF the coach is competent...
Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."
well, to a degree, you are right.
the best coaches in the world aren't going to win much if they have substantially inferior personnel. phil jackson certainly wouldn't be considered to be the coaching god many out there seem to think he is if he had no mj and scottie or shaq and kobe.
he benefited greatly from having some of the greatest players of all time playing for him no doubt.
however, a good or great coach with good talent can beat a one-trick pony with great talent and do it pretty consistently too.
i have seen it play out many times. heck, take last year's squad for example:
butler beat iu because stevens knew crean is all about the fastbreak transition points. he made it clear to his team that the most important thing was to take away the transition points as often as possible because iu in half court is a very beatable team- even with 2 future 1st round picks playing because they just aren't well prepared for a grind it out game.
bo ryan was also aware of this. and last year's 2 games were exact clones of each other. wisconsin did a good job of denying those easy buckets and made iu play a bunch of half court ball and wisconsin was in control from the start in both games.
and yes, sometimes the entire team might have an off night shooting but, i saw syracuse's zone do a great job of preventing iu's transition game from ever developing. they were prepared to deal with us- we we NOT prepared for them. good coaches not only prepare their teams for their opponents, they are also prepared to make adjustments when needed.
maybe next year it will happen but i have yet to honestly feel that the team has gotten better as the season rolls on. this iu team will not get any better- i feel safe saying that.
At this point in the game, with no one in foul trouble, there is absolutely no reason to trot out a lineup of Stan Robinson-Jonny Marlin-Jeff Howard-Hanner Perea-Austin Etherington. None. Why do that Crean?
Yogi is carrying us with his end of the shot clock three pointers today.
IU is like the opposite of the Pacers: They keep it close in the first half, then the opposing coach makes the correct adjustments and they turn it on in the second half and run us off the court.