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Thread: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

  1. #1076
    Member Miller_time04's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    I think it's absolutely baffling that we have no semblance of an offense what so ever. Such a horrible year.

  2. #1077

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Explain to me what Crean expects to happen with that weave he constantly runs at the top of the key?
    yeah, that weave just doesn't work or fool anyone. it's pretty pointless but tom feels like it must work somehow and he won't abandon it.

  3. #1078
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller_time04 View Post
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    I think it's absolutely baffling that we have no semblance of an offense what so ever. Such a horrible year.
    Dude, don't be dense. Clearly, the offense is as such: Run the three man weave on the three point line until there are EXACTLY 8 seconds left on the shot clock. At this point, let your bestest player (HAY BOO BOO) throw some garbage shot up and pray for the best. If he misses..OH WELL. He's your best player so you have to give him the opportunity to shoot the ball.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    This year's offense is clearly let Yogi play hero ball - damn the turnovers - and let everyone else follow.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Dude, don't be dense. Clearly, the offense is as such: Run the three man weave on the three point line until there are EXACTLY 8 seconds left on the shot clock. At this point, let your bestest player (HAY BOO BOO) throw some garbage shot up and pray for the best. If he misses..OH WELL. He's your best player so you have to give him the opportunity to shoot the ball.
    Unless it's a really crucial point in the game and then you call timeout after burning all that clock with just 7 secs left on the shot clock.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  7. #1081

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    This team just doesn't have the players right now. Don't know what to tell you. This is what happens when you primarily play freshmen. Victor Oladipo didn't exactly come in playing lights out either. Cody Zeller was the exception to the rule.

    I get it...this team is HARD to watch. I can't watch most of these games. The drop-off from the execution of last year, to this year, is just way too steep. It's painful.

    But this is what happens when you play mostly freshmen who aren't UK-payroll caliber.

    I have two major criticisms of Crean, so I'm not a blind apologist. One...that 2012 recruiting class was pretty awful overall. Yogi is terrific, obviously, but to say HMP, Jurkin & Hollowell have disappointed would be massive understatements. And it's not like Ron Patterson is doing a whole lot at 'Cuse either (still, better than Jurkin...) You just can't have an elite program and whiff as badly on a class as Crean did in 2012. I'm not sure the Jurkin commitment ever made sense, and nothing appears to be changing that now.

    The other is just that he's a stubborn ***. Great recruiter, I think he's actually an underrated Xs & Os coach because everyone likes to "blah blah blah zone" but doesn't appear to watch any other college coaches who routinely do dumbass things, but he's stubborn to a fault. He's brash toward media at best, puts on a face for fans that doesn't really reflect his consideration of them, and sticks to some flawed philosophies. The blitzkrieg offense is terrific if you have transition shooters and great ballhandlers. But he should have known he didn't have a plethora of either heading into the season, and modified the offense thusly (he did try to install SOME post concepts for Vonleh, but at the end of the day Vonleh is raw and Crean isn't exactly known for dynamic post concepts either).

    So, yes, this season has been a little worse than even I expected, and I was wholly pessimistic heading into it. But look, they're beating some good teams, and they're losing close ones to bad teams. You have to learn how to win. I think they will. They're not really losing anyone of value next year, Yogi is going to continue to blossom into a star player, and you see it's just a matter of time before guys like Stan Robinson and Troy Williams get the whole of it, and someone like James Blackmon Jr can come in and answer for the lack of outside shooting -- which is killing this team more than anything right now.

    Firing Crean or abandoning all hope because of one slightly disappointing season seems ridiculous to me. Unless you're landing Brad Stevens, just take your lumps and see what's in front of you.

  8. #1082
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    I'm sorry but the offense was horrible last year. Dribble drive and kick. Dribble Drive and Kick. Post entry. Doubled. No cuts. Dribble Drive and Kick. Dribble Drive and Kick.

    No curls, Minimal off ball screens, no screening a screener, no flex, generic motion offense, back cuts are weak, and no Hi-lo against a fronting zone defense.

    I hat IU's offense. Hate it.

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  10. #1083

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I'm sorry but the offense was horrible last year. Dribble drive and kick. Dribble Drive and Kick. Post entry. Doubled. No cuts. Dribble Drive and Kick. Dribble Drive and Kick.

    No curls, Minimal off ball screens, no screening a screener, no flex, generic motion offense, back cuts are weak, and no Hi-lo against a fronting zone defense.

    I hat IU's offense. Hate it.
    The offense was absolutely fine last year until Crean ran it into the ground with A) incredibly intense practices that never eased up toward the B1G season conclusion and tourney time and B) zero depth.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or a know-it-all, but I feel 100% confident in saying if you ask anyone close to the IU program, they will tell you Crean just ran that team into the ground last year. They were exhausted. They had tired legs. When they weren't tired, and had fresh legs, they were DAMN good, nation's best really.

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  12. #1084
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    The offense was absolutely fine last year until Crean ran it into the ground with A) incredibly intense practices that never eased up toward the B1G season conclusion and tourney time and B) zero depth.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or a know-it-all, but I feel 100% confident in saying if you ask anyone close to the IU program, they will tell you Crean just ran that team into the ground last year. They were exhausted. They had tired legs. When they weren't tired, and had fresh legs, they were DAMN good, nation's best really.
    I always thought that the team just looked drained towards the end of the season. They were running on fumes; you could just tell.

  13. #1085

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I always thought that the team just looked drained towards the end of the season. They were running on fumes; you could just tell.
    I guarantee this is the case. Not just the smell test, though you could just tell they didn't even have fun playing toward the end. But I do know a few people inside the program who have always maintained that. Team just had nothing left at the end. Crean's practice strategy was (is?) insane.

    When that offense had legs, it was regularly in the 80-100 point range.

  14. #1086

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Cody Zeller mentioned in an interview they had a 4-hour practice one day in late February. Crean was notorious for overworking his Marquette teams; I guess I'm not surprised he does the same here.

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  16. #1087
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Crean's offense has NEVER looked good so it's not going to look good next year, the year after, or the next decade. It doesn't matter who he gets or loses in the recruitment battle. The offense won't improve until coaching improves.

    Lots of rah rah, very little substance.

    It's time to start making a list of candidates because Crean's on the clock.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  17. #1088

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Crean's offense has NEVER looked good
    Really? Again, they looked terrific last year until Crean ran them into the ground.

    Scored 80+, which I consider a fair standard for "good" college hoops offense, in 20 games last year. TWENTY.

    The system works. You need the players. Right now, he doesn't have the players.

  18. #1089

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckSwagger View Post
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    Cody Zeller mentioned in an interview they had a 4-hour practice one day in late February. Crean was notorious for overworking his Marquette teams; I guess I'm not surprised he does the same here.
    didn't know about the practices. sometimes some unpleasant, hard practices can be beneficial in motivating the players but- there is a limit. looks like tom doesn't get because he isn't actually running up and down the court with them and doesn't get it that they are real people and not robots.

  19. #1090
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Really? Again, they looked terrific last year until Crean ran them into the ground.

    Scored 80+, which I consider a fair standard for "good" college hoops offense, in 20 games last year. TWENTY.

    The system works. You need the players. Right now, he doesn't have the players.
    In the same way that O'Brien needed the right players....

    Sorry... In a 'not gonna happen' world, Crean's never going to have the right players. The coach doesn't need the right players, the players need the right coach.

    I'm done with Crean. When it's clear a coach has hit his ceiling and is not up to the standards needed there's no use making excuses for him. They just need to move on at IU sooner rather than later.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  20. #1091
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Crean has shown that he can have tournament success when he has a player on his roster who goes on to become one of the greatest players in NBA history. Otherwise......

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  22. #1092
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Crean has shown that he can have tournament success when he has a player on his roster who goes on to become one of the greatest players in NBA history. Otherwise......
    I'm glad you brought up Travis Diener...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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  24. #1093

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    In the same way that O'Brien needed the right players....

    Sorry... In a 'not gonna happen' world, Crean's never going to have the right players. The coach doesn't need the right players, the players need the right coach.

    I'm done with Crean. When it's clear a coach has hit his ceiling and is not up to the standards needed there's no use making excuses for him. They just need to move on at IU sooner rather than later.
    He had the right players LAST YEAR...

  25. #1094
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    So, yes, this season has been a little worse than even I expected, and I was wholly pessimistic heading into it. But look, they're beating some good teams, and they're losing close ones to bad teams. You have to learn how to win. I think they will. They're not really losing anyone of value next year, Yogi is going to continue to blossom into a star player, and you see it's just a matter of time before guys like Stan Robinson and Troy Williams get the whole of it, and someone like James Blackmon Jr can come in and answer for the lack of outside shooting -- which is killing this team more than anything right now.

    Firing Crean or abandoning all hope because of one slightly disappointing season seems ridiculous to me. Unless you're landing Brad Stevens, just take your lumps and see what's in front of you.
    Crean seems to think differently, but I think Noah Vonleh is pretty valuable. Or at least should be.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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  27. #1095

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Crean seems to think differently, but I think Noah Vonleh is pretty valuable. Or at least should be.
    Whoops, forgot about Vonleh, was just thinking of seniority not draft.

    Funny that this team everyone *****es about has a surefire lottery pick. Vonleh is raw as hell, but his skillset and ability to hit the glass screams lottery pick even in a great draft.

  28. #1096
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Whoops, forgot about Vonleh, was just thinking of seniority not draft.

    Funny that this team everyone *****es about has a surefire lottery pick.
    Yes, that's part of the reason we are *****ing.

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  30. #1097
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    He had the right players LAST YEAR...
    He has to have world beaters at nearly every position or they will ALWAYS be stopped in the tournament trail by coaches that can actually coach and have well prepared players just waiting to stop them.

    And it's going to be worse when players realize that and he has a shrinking talent pool to pick from.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  31. #1098
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    If Vonleh goes it's only going to be the same to slightly better. Other players could improve, but not gonna matter if it's a total doughnut team.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  32. #1099
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    He had the right players LAST YEAR...
    And he still couldn't even get to round of eight. I call that a dissappointing underachievement.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

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  34. #1100

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2013-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    And he still couldn't even get to round of eight. I call that a dissappointing underachievement.
    Right, because he ran them into the ground (and concurrent with that, Hulls become entirely sub/average). It wasn't the player or the scheme that failed the team. It was the damn practice strategy and related lack of depth. As I said...that needs to change. Badly.

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