let us collectively LOL at Psycho T's shot chart:
let us collectively LOL at Psycho T's shot chart:
Every time he shot a jump shot this year I was just like damn there's no way that goes in.
I'm not perfect and neither are you.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the esteem of Elohim,
Ephisians 4: 32 And be kind towards one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as Elohim also forgave you in Messiah.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh......quiet......you're going to upset the Tyler apologists.
I can't imagine anyone convincing me that Tyler worked harder than Roy....EVER, not just this year or something. Back when you (the generic you) were complaining about how Roy was awkward or a bust or never going to be a starting center during his rookie year he was working just as hard as Tyler ever has, both on and off the court. And he wasn't getting big cheers or leading the team in jersey sales or anything like that.
In fact I'd say that if HARD WORK = IMPROVEMENT then Hibbert and Paul have a lot more evidence of their hard work than Tyler does of his. Shouldn't Roy be admired FAR MORE than Tyler given his lower draft pick and how much farther he's taken his career? He was a 4 year college guy too, he even plateaued from his Jr to Sr year and could have been headed to "meh" status himself. Yet he become a leading NBA defender and an all-star.
Tyler was a pretty high draft pick with an NCAA title and a prestigious college career full of awards - not exactly "plucky underdog". His teammate Green is more of a plucky underdog story at this point.
And it's these issues and many others that annoy fans like me. That somehow Tyler was anything more than exactly what we saw on the court and in any way superior to other guys on the court. I watched Sam Young intensely because I happened to like his game coming out of Pittsburgh, and what I saw with the Pacers was a guy that chased down plays everywhere, read things early and even when he screwed up it was while busting his butt to make a play that was perhaps beyond his ability to complete.
So when Tyler doesn't foul a guy because he didn't read the defensive rotation and Sam does but gets there late and fouls, we have a bunch of fans that chalk that up as Tyler did good (no foul) and Sam did bad (he fouled), even though it was Sam who read the play and put in the effort.
And as I've said many times over, Tyler got the MOST CHEERS for several seasons here despite not earning them. He is 100% Tebow. Not terrible, not unworthy of his shot to prove himself, and certainly not lazy. But also not nearly as good as some of his irrational fanbase made him out to be before he even played one game, let alone after 3-4 seasons of mediocrity. And as a person that's been to many road games the last 3 years I also saw Tyler get more love from fans ON THE ROAD than other Pacers. He had a cult following that other players of his same production level don't come close to sharing. Why are people in Texas cheering for Tyler but not Roy or Paul, it's not ACC country even.
Imagine how you would have felt if McRoberts or Pendergraph got LOUDER cheers than Danny, Paul, West, or Roy during intros every night, or when entering the game. Imagine Dwayne Ferrell getting louder cheers than Reggie Miller. Imagine Pooh Richardson getting louder cheers than Rik Smits.
My problem has never been with Tyler, it's been with an irrational love of his game vs similar or better players. Period. I realize some people say they don't think that happened, but I simply can't agree or comprehend how they didn't notice it. If you noticed and just didn't care, that's different. It's simply the kind of thing that bugs me and if it doesn't bug you that's fine, you are probably better off. But to me it always seemed a bit disrespectful to other players working just as hard and producing more for the team.
It's always bothered me to be part of arguments that imply antagonism toward Tyler when I don't feel that way at all. I don't think much of his game, but I do recognize and enjoy the positives he does bring just like any other bench player. I cheer for Tyler EQUAL to what I cheer for Young, Green, Pendy, Lou, etc. They do some good things, they get their moments and it's fun, but I don't think one high scoring game for Lou means it's time to give him 25 mpg and I don't think it proves that Lou just needed touches to get going and if he was used correctly he'd be great.
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-15-2013 at 02:57 PM.
Did I or did I not clarify that I was referring to on the floor (though I would point out Tyler allegedly got his Psycho nickname for his workout habits, not his game, but I digress) and did I or did I not say that it stuck out because you could visually see that he had to "compensate for his lack of physical gifts relative to many of his peers"?
I just don't see why my words elicited a big response from you. Especially since it looks like disagreement. I think we do agree that he sticks out because he looks physically inferior.
I'm not entirely sure why, but this agitates me a bit. Maybe I just feel like my point was missed or rather misinterpreted.
It's amazing how Tyler has duped so many PD posters. No other b/u player has been able to dupe so many for so long as Tyler. I can't understand his sway over all these naive fans. Color this green.
I've mentioned this same issue where people now think I'm a "sunshiner" and used to think I was a "darksider". What changed? The quality of the team. When they were a 30-36 win team I was negative on their chances and on a series of issues, primarily the coach. The coach was removed, the team IMMEDIATELY became drastically better (43-46 win pace) and suddenly I was more optimistic about their chances to win and supportive of the team in general (the franchise...always support the good guy players).
The perception of my opinion has as much to do with the opponent as it does the point, or probably much more so. If I stand in the middle then I'm far right of someone far left, and far left of someone far right. This means that if we had 80% of the board just mad as hell about the Tyler pick and hating his guts from day one, then I'd have been posting a lot more things like "he'd drawing fouls and killing teams on the 50/50 plays, he's quick enough to switch to some SFs pretty well".
I was just never put in the position of having to defend Tyler because he arrived in Indy (and the NBA) per-ordained.
And as I said in my previous post, I took those stands with such passion because my biggest hot button is "reasonableness". There are those issues that bug me and when they do then oh boy. I realize this, though I hope the wordy replies are at least coherent and on point.
Think of all of the low caliber bench players who have played for the Pacers over the last decade: Travis Diener, Shawne Williams, Earl Watson, Solomon Jones, David Harrison, Luther Head, Dhantay Jones, Ike Diogu, Maceo Baston, etc etc etc. Tyler was better than any of those guys. Then think of the guys who embarrassed the franchise, i.e. Tinsley, Artest, and Jackson. Tyler never did anything to stain the franchise.
At the end of the day, he was an adequate backup who had flaws, but he wasn't completely terrible, nor did he ever do anything to embarrass the team. We could have picked better players instead of him, but it's not as if he was a total bust. I was ready move on, but the guy wasn't completely terrible or anything.
Last edited by Sollozzo; 07-15-2013 at 03:24 PM.
He was completely terrible shooting the ball.
Except that what you are saying does still bug me in that it suggests that other players like Roy are just naturally gifted and not as admirable for their effort because it comes naturally. That's complete BS. Could you really say "Roy, you are naturally gifted and Tyler isn't, so we cheer for him more because he has to WORK for it".
Frankly I think a case could be made that coming out of college Tyler was SMOOTHER than Roy. Diamond Dave has called Roy a baby giraffe and I think a lot of us agreed with that view. He was tall but still isn't about to be confused with Kevin Durant.
What about George Hill? He came from IUPUI, not UNC. He was drafted 13 spots lower than Tyler. He had a lot less pedigree coming to the NBA. Certainly no one would have blinked if he'd gone out of the league in 2 years.
These guys 100% do NOT have it easier. Tyler has the benefit of being taller and stronger than Hill, so right there Hill has to work on skills to compensate for that disadvantage. Plenty of guys make the NBA based entirely on their size. Tyler didn't lift weights to get taller. Look at how his size advantage helped increase his draft and NBA stock over his own brother Ben.
Copeland? Dude wasn't even IN the NBA for years. I don't think it was because he was loaded with talent but just didn't work hard to put it to use, especially given the path he's taking to get back to the NBA. He doesn't have the bulk that Tyler does but would still get into the low post and bang with bigger guys as hard as he could.
Tyler's style is awkward looking which emphasizes herky-jerky movement and physical contact. This makes people feel like he's doing more when in fact he is not.
And don't tell me that you can't learn to shoot better with practice or that David West was just naturally blessed with an innate knowledge of low post footwork and balance. Guys hit the gym and the skills that look smooth often look that way from the work they put in.
Tyler is physically gifted. He is nowhere close to the "Rudy" story. And I realize that the weight room gives him strength, but it's not like Ben could have hit the weight room and been an NBA PF under any circumstances. If anything Ben, being from Notre Dame even, is far more the Rudy story on this team, the guy cheered for because he's not as athletically privileged like his peers.
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-15-2013 at 03:50 PM.
Tyler working harder than other players, isn't about how much time he puts into the practice court or weightroom, but rather his non-stop motor when he's on the floor. Tyler always seems to get his hands on a loose ball, or "be in the right place, at the right time." He's like Foster, in that they simply outhustle people when they're on the court.
People like those traits. My GF just became a Pacers fan since we've been dating, and she's upset that Tyler has left over this very point. She knows nothing about NCAA and/or him from his UNC days.
EDIT: And Psycho T was born out of more things than just basketball, it has to do with Tyler's personality in general. Him playing ping-pong and losers having the ball hit at them as hard as possible leaving welts is part of it, another with the vide of him doing a flip into a pool at UNC off of a balcony.
EDIT2: okay, no flip.
Last edited by Since86; 07-15-2013 at 03:49 PM.
I think the nickname Psycho T came from his intensity in the weight room if I remember correctly.
I dunno why exactly, I'm sure he's sincere, it was just such a goofy little clip.
While I wasn't the biggest fan of Hansbrough's performance on the court (especially as of late), I'm having a hard time stomaching the "pile on" behavior of someone who played his heart out for us.
He did this during what I believe we'll look back on, as the prime years of his career (as I don't believe his greatest asset - his hustle - will persist at same levels as he ages).
It's even more distasteful to read this stuff than it is all of the apologists that tried to explain away his obvious deficiencies. He deserves more respect from the Indiana fan base then that.
charismatic as ever
I want to see him make a fake presidential campaign commercial with the same enthusiasm and delivery as the above video.