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Thread: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

  1. #1
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Not exactly news, but I know some on the board still harbor hopes that the Pacers will go into the luxury tax.




    Seems pretty definite.

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    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    I don't expect them to, the fanbase can not support the kind of revenue needed to go into luxury tax. Nor is our TV deal anything to right home about, like the Lakers...
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    So who will complain first

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  6. #4

    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Call me crazy but I think next offseason we will go over the tax.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Not surprised. I just hope we can get close.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by sopgy View Post
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    Call me crazy but I think next offseason we will go over the tax.
    If it is the difference between winning a championship or not I agree they will go slightly over for a single season, but no more.

  10. #7

    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    We can win without being in the cap. We'll find a way to manage next off-season while avoiding the cap.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by sopgy View Post
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    Call me crazy but I think next offseason we will go over the tax.
    If Simon says "no," then Simon says, "no." With George's extension coming, I think the Pacers are going to have to make a decision between Lance and Granger at season's end.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by sopgy View Post
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    Call me crazy but I think next offseason we will go over the tax.

    If we don't, then we very likely will be bidding goodbye to either Lance or Granger in a year (if DG is healthy enough to play well and generate interest around the league). Picking between those two would be like "Sophie's Choice" for Bird.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    We've known Danny or Lance would be out the door next summer for a while IMO.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    We've known Danny or Lance would be out the door next summer for a while IMO.
    I agree, but I'm not so sure that everyone has accepted that.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    We've known Danny or Lance would be out the door next summer for a while IMO.
    I think it's highly likely, like 90% likely, but I don't think it's completely inevitable

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    So who will complain first
    I don't know that anyone will complain as such, but I'm sure it will be pointed out that this stingy attitude is why Bird jumped ship and will never return to the Pacers FO...
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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Seriously, though, I got the feeling he meant "for this year" - when there really is no reason to go over the LT. I suspect the door is still open IF we need to cross the LT after a year with good attendance and if we are right on the cusp of a championship. I still firmly believe that if Simon feels he can get the championship going over the LT by a little, he'll do it.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    If Simon says "no," then Simon says, "no." With George's extension coming, I think the Pacers are going to have to make a decision between Lance and Granger at season's end.
    Simon has probably told the front office to do their job while staying under the tax. It is up to the FO to make it work given the constraint. I understood Bird's comment were for this year.

    Maybe it is the fan in me, but you don't get to Hilary's Step and then not loosen the purse strings a bit. If they are successful and win a championship then Simon will be rewarded financially. Of course spending money to keep our team together or grabbing a free agent with the MLE does not guarantee anything.

    Maybe we will pull a Walsh type trade where we trade a veteran and get an unproven young player with potential to avoid paying the tax. Simon went over the cap a little bit last decade and I just have a feeling that he will do it again next offseason if Bird can convince him a bit.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I agree, but I'm not so sure that everyone has accepted that.
    I have accepted it is highly likely, but there is still a lot of unknown to say for sure. Granger could come back and not be good enough to command that type or money, or Lance could not improve much or at all and not be signed to a deal as big as people think. Maybe they get fancy and structure West's, Granger's, and Lance's deals in such a way that keeps the team just below the tax, or we find out that West and/or Granger are both willing to take pay cuts to stay on a championship caliber team. There is too much unknown to completely discount the possibility we keep both. The odds are just against it.

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  26. #17
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Seriously, though, I got the feeling he meant "for this year" - when there really is no reason to go over the LT. I suspect the door is still open IF we need to cross the LT after a year with good attendance and if we are right on the cusp of a championship. I still firmly believe that if Simon feels he can get the championship going over the LT by a little, he'll do it.
    I think this is grasping at straws.

    Could there be an exceptional, throw-out-the-rulebook situation that causes Simon to say, ok, let's pay tax after all? It could happen, sure. But it would really have to be an exception and not something the FO can count on happening. Something like Danny and Lance both averaging 20 ppg while leading us into the Finals maybe, and even then the FO might look to dump someone else to make room.

    Why does that matter now? Because the FO is already signing players that will eat into next year's space. Watson is rumored to get a 2 year deal. I expect our MLE guy to get a multi year deal too. Can the FO operate on the assumption that they can go into the tax next year? IMO no, so that means they're already prepared to lose one of Lance or Danny, probably Danny as Lance is younger and likely to be cheaper.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    I have been saying for months that this is Granger's last year with the Pacers, not because
    I don't like him, because we will not be able to afford him

  29. #19
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I don't know that anyone will complain as such, but I'm sure it will be pointed out that this stingy attitude is why Bird jumped ship and will never return to the Pacers FO...

    I'll say it... I don't think Bird returned without some assurance that money wouldn't be an issue in improving the team (within reason of course). Also, I don't see how announcing the likelihood of, or backroom plans and circumstances to go over the cap, would be beneficial upfront as a negotiating ploy. Why tell players and agents you will go over the cap/tax? You cross that bridge when you come to it.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird: We will not go into the tax for any reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I think it's highly likely, like 90% likely, but I don't think it's completely inevitable
    I agree, it's still very possible to keep both players and West. It really comes down to how stupid we are in spending money this summer and how much Danny's market value will be next year which is unknown, Lance won't cost that much.

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