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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

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  • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

    Originally posted by SMosley21 View Post
    A trade I'd like to see the Pacers explore is something along these lines
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pr55tqr
    3 team deal involving Pacers, Rockets, Kings

    Pacers send Gerald Green + cash (received from Boston for pick 53) to Sacramento
    Sacramento sends 2nd round pick in 2014 to Pacers
    Houston sends Thomas Robinson to Pacers for our 2nd round pick in 2014 + Sacramento's 2nd in 2014.

    Pacers get rid of Green's contract, and get back the backup PF we need. Houston clears Thomas Robinson's salary which they are trying to do in order to offer Dwight a max contract, and get two 2nd round picks in what is going to be a solid draft class. Sacramento gets Green and doesn't have to pay his full salary because we're paying a portion of the 1st year. He becomes value to them next summer as an expiring contract.
    They'd have to really like Green as a player. Green is owed 7 mil. The Pacers can only send them 3 mil. So they basically give up a 2nd rounder (likely a very high 2nd rounder) for the privilege to waste $4 mil on Green.

    Comment


    • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

      Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
      They'd have to really like Green as a player. Green is owed 7 mil. The Pacers can only send them 3 mil. So they basically give up a 2nd rounder (likely a very high 2nd rounder) for the privilege to waste $4 mil on Green.
      Doesn't seem like too much of a risk for them though. They know they aren't competing any time in the next 2 seasons, so if anything he helps them tank, and like I said they would essentially don't even pay his salary next season and all they have to give up is a 2nd round pick, then use him as an expiring contract next summer.

      Comment


      • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

        Bulls fired Ron Adams, he was Thibodeau's lead assistant and was Scott Brook's lead assistant before that. Thibs didn't fire him, Gar Forman did. Wonder if Vogel'd have interest?

        Comment


        • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

          Originally posted by SMosley21 View Post
          Doesn't seem like too much of a risk for them though. They know they aren't competing any time in the next 2 seasons, so if anything he helps them tank, and like I said they would essentially don't even pay his salary next season and all they have to give up is a 2nd round pick, then use him as an expiring contract next summer.
          Well, there's no risk, but there's no reward either..

          If they were the team that got a pick out of this deal, I could see it. Now they are giving up a 2nd, which will likely be an early 2nd. So it's very valuable, some consider those early 2nds more valuable than very late 1sts because salary can be non-guaranteed. They could probably sell that pick for another 3 mil, teams like Houston try to buy them every year. Or they could try to get a prospect who falls out of round 1 there.

          They can tank without Green too, they can use that cap space on other bad players. Or not use it at all.

          They basically lose 4 mil in cash, lose cap space, and lose a pick. They'd have an expiring, sure... but cap space is better than a bad player on an expiring.

          Comment


          • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

            Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
            Bulls fired Ron Adams, he was Thibodeau's lead assistant and was Scott Brook's lead assistant before that. Thibs didn't fire him, Gar Forman did. Wonder if Vogel'd have interest?
            wow. i wonder what's the story there.

            Comment


            • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

              Originally posted by SMosley21 View Post
              Doesn't seem like too much of a risk for them though. They know they aren't competing any time in the next 2 seasons, so if anything he helps them tank, and like I said they would essentially don't even pay his salary next season and all they have to give up is a 2nd round pick, then use him as an expiring contract next summer.
              I'm going to assume that a 2014-2015 2nd round pick is going to be expensive given the depth in that year's draft. Maybe a 2015 or 2016 2nd round pick at most

              But I don't think it matters.....getting rid of Green is going to be too expensive cuz his contract is toxic. A Team like the Kings are already under the Salary Cap in 2013-2014....so they have no need for an Expiring when they can simply send back a TPE to another Team.

              IMHO, Teams ONLY would want an Expiring if they want to dump long-term salary...which is something that we don't want to in return. Teams that can send back NOTHING are Teams that are already under the 2014-2015 Salary Cap ( thus having no need for an Expiring ).

              At this point....the only hope to get rid of Green is to try to dump him AGAIN before the 2014-2015 draft by dangling the 2014-2015 pick...which I don't think is a good idea given the apparent strength and depth of that draft. The other option is if the Pacers are able to attach Green to Granger in a trade ( which would likely be a "pennys on the dollar" type of trade ).
              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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              • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                I've continually re-run the Salary Cap #s on this ( hoping that I can come up with a different result ) and am coming up with the same conclusion when it comes to what the FO should do this offseason.

                The Pacers basically have roughly $5.15 mil to spend ( pretty much the full MLE ) in yearly salary to fill the Backup PG, Backup PF and 3rd Backup PG position WITHOUT going over the LT in 2014-2015.

                Looking at the "Long Game" ( as in beyond this season and to the 2014-2015 season, when Salary cap Management really matters ), based on the following Worst Case Scenario Salary assumptions:

                • West signs for $13 mil a year in 2014-2015
                • PG has a Near MAX Contract with a starting salary of $15.5 mil in 2014-2015
                • Lance has a starting Salary of $6.5 mil in 2014-2015

                The way I look at it is that we have 2 options:

                Option 1 ) Go after a single Player that can cost $4.25 to 4.5 mil and then sign a cheap Backup PF or PG ( depending on who you go after with the full MLE ) and a 3rd Backup PG ( at the League minimum ) for $500 to 750k.

                Option 2 ) Split up the $4.25 to 4.5 mil that the Pacers can spend on a Backup PG and Backup PF and then find some League/Vet Minimum Backup PG for $500 to 750k


                NOTE - With some creative SalaryCap Management, I am sure that they can shave off $1mil and therefore make a push for a Player at the Full MLE...or even have enough to make a run at 2 "Middle Tier" Players that costs more. Of course, if the Pacers can Front-Load West's contract or have him take $11.5 to 12+ mil a year ( which is a possibility ), PG takes slightly less and Lance could be had for $6 mil ( which is above the Full MLE ) then it would allow the Team to go after "slightly" better Backup Free Agents. But let's assume a "worst case scenario" here.

                Looking at this over the Long-Term to avoid the 2014-2015 LT....I just wanted to point out that we can probably make a run at a Player wanting the full MLE ( what many want here )....but that just means that we will have to sacrificing quality at the other backup position.

                We're looking at essentially spending $$$ on over this and next season:

                One "Slightly Above Average Higher Tier" Backup Player and Two "Lower Tier" Backup Players

                or

                Two "Middle-Tier" Backup Players ( as in a "decent to solid" Backup PG AND PF ) and One "Lower Tier" Backup Player
                Last edited by CableKC; 06-29-2013, 08:40 PM.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                  Cable - I assume you are factoring no QO for Tyler, correct?
                  Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                    Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                    we're looking at essentially spending $$$ on over this and next season:

                    One "Slightly Above Average Higher Tier" Backup Player and Two "Lower Tier" Backup Players

                    or

                    Two "Middle-Tier" Backup Players ( as in a "decent to solid" Backup PG AND PF ) and One "Lower Tier" Backup Player
                    I appreciate your posts, Cable. While I hold out hope that West will sign for less, my take-away from your analysis is that this is a year where we may need to consider mortgaging some of our future--i.e., next year's "coveted" draft pick--to improve the present. It's a timing-related issue and a fun risk to consider, IMO. I have no doubt that many PDers will argue that trading our 2014 #1 is the worst thing we can do, but a particularly good draft class by no means guarantees that our (late-first-round) selection will pan out; almost certainly not right away. In fact, if the current value of a first next year is inflated because of the growing reputation of the class, then given our win-now orientation, I say trade it away to land a high-quality back-up PF or PG. Then use the MLE to maximize value at the other position and hope that Danny (and internal improvement) fills our shooting needs.


                    "He’s no shrinking violet when it comes to that kind of stuff."

                    - Rick Carlisle on how Kevin Pritchard responds to needed roster changes.

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                    • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013


                      Comment


                      • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                        Originally posted by CableKC View Post

                        • West signs for $13 mil a year in 2014-2015
                        • PG has a Near MAX Contract with a starting salary of $15.5 mil in 2014-2015
                        • Lance has a starting Salary of $6.5 mil in 2014-2015
                        You called those "worst case scenarios", and I certainly hope they are exactly that. I think you might be overpricing a couple of the guys. I could see West taking a contract starting at (maybe) $11.5 or so. I also think the price is high for Lance. Depending on his progress, they should pitch him a contract starting at around $4.5. Shorten the length of Lance's contract to give him a chance to further prove himself and increase his earnings more quickly. Remember, he got his playing time NOT by outplaying a previous starter, but due to injury. His willingness to return to the bench tends to bolster my hopes that he realizes his position on the team, and will not be asking for the moon (relatively).

                        Comment


                        • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                          Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post


                          Broussard is reporting the Mavs are meeting with him on Tuesday... though I really wish we were the ones knocking on his door at midnight EST like Houston is.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                            wasnt there a quote by west late in the season that basically said he wants to take a fair amount of money so we can go after some FA?? I strongly remember that

                            Comment


                            • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                              Originally posted by spreedom View Post
                              Broussard is reporting the Mavs are meeting with him on Tuesday... though I really wish we were the ones knocking on his door at midnight EST like Houston is.
                              Your quote box was showing blank for me, but I'm guessing you were talking about Howard? If so, no thanks. The Pacers don't need a darn drama queen who thinks it is all about him.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Off Season News, Rumors, and Trades, etc. 2013

                                Originally posted by DrFife View Post
                                I appreciate your posts, Cable. While I hold out hope that West will sign for less, my take-away from your analysis is that this is a year where we may need to consider mortgaging some of our future--i.e., next year's "coveted" draft pick--to improve the present. It's a timing-related issue and a fun risk to consider, IMO. I have no doubt that many PDers will argue that trading our 2014 #1 is the worst thing we can do, but a particularly good draft class by no means guarantees that our (late-first-round) selection will pan out; almost certainly not right away. In fact, if the current value of a first next year is inflated because of the growing reputation of the class, then given our win-now orientation, I say trade it away to land a high-quality back-up PF or PG. Then use the MLE to maximize value at the other position and hope that Danny (and internal improvement) fills our shooting needs.
                                It's obviously going to take something creative for us to get at least one player of the caliber necessary to truly push further toward championship contention, or hopefully get us over the hump. This seems like a legit potential strategy.
                                I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                                -Emiliano Zapata

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