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Thread: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Is Team Chemistry at High Point?


    Thursday, Jan. 6, 2005
    If you'd like to pose a Question of the Day to Conrad Brunner, submit it along with your full name and hometown to Bruno's_mailbag@pacers.com. Brunner’s opinions are his own and do not necessarily reflect those of Pacers players, coaches or management.
    QUESTION
    OF THE DAY

    Conrad Brunner


    Q. With such a season filled with turmoil, suspensions and injuries to key Pacer players, the team chemistry appears to be at the highest level ever as the players demonstrate a strong bond for each other and enjoy playing together as a team. How do you measure the Pacers' team chemistry compared to other NBA teams and how much impact will this carry in the team's goal of winning an NBA championship? (From Brad in Fort Wayne, IN)



    A. You raise an excellent point. There's no question the aftermath of the Nov. 19 incident and the incredible hardship placed upon the franchise, has had a galvanizing effect in the locker room. Jermaine O'Neal has made several references to the respect he gained watching guys like Austin Croshere, Fred and James Jones and Jamaal Tinsley carry the team in his absence. And now that he's back, O'Neal is playing with a passion that has carried him to the highest level of performance of his already distinguished career. Everyone seems to have taken this season on as a personal mission to prove that the incident, and accompanying punishment, won't prove a fatal blow to the team's hopes.

    It's hard to say how the Pacers' chemistry compares to that of other teams around the league, but it appears to be at a level I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team. While the team will continue to miss Ron Artest's defense and intensity, his absence has left O'Neal as the clear and undisputed leader of the team and it is a role he relishes. The importance of that distinction can't be overstated. O'Neal is playing with something to prove, and so are his teammates. That has made for a very unified locker room and cohesive team on the court. Assuming the chemistry can be maintained the rest of the season, or possibly even strengthened, it could be a major factor in the playoffs.

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    Member Ultimate Frisbee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quality.

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    Member Mushmouth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Is that Brad Miller who asked the question?

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    canyoufeelit
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Team chemistry at a high point with Artest out of the picture? Interesting...

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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    I think it has more to do with everyone on the team knowing that everyone else has their back.........

    But yes, Artest's actions did that.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Since86, your avatar.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    I think that's a politically correct way of saying that the rest of the players and coaching staff don't miss you-know-who... you know, the guy who last summer declared himself to be the team's MVP and then asked for time off after the season started. Those types of things are always good for team chemistry, don'tcha think?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    I figured that someone would raise the issue of the chemistry being better because Artest is gone. Well maybe so, who knows.

    But on the other hand, Bruno's response seems to indicate that because of the 11/19 incident the team is so close, and afterall didn't Artest cause the 11/19 incident. So maybe we should all thank Artest for creting the incident that caused the better chemistry.

    Artest has lost close to 5.5 million and regardless of what you think of artest, we all know he loves to play basketball, so let's not pile on. Of course I'll be here to defend him when I believe someone is piling on

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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    See what Ron was willing to sacrifice for the sake of team chemistry? Sorry - couldn't resist.

    Chemistry is overrated. The Bulls of the 90's had lousy team chemistry. Pippen thought he should have been the superstar, Rodman was a loon (when he was with them) and Scottie even sat down if he wasn't happy with the way a play was called at the end of games. How many titles did they win?

    Anyone think the Lakers 3 championship teams had good team chemistry with Shaq and Kobe sharing the stage?

    Every time I hear or read something about team chemistry I just roll my eyes. I'm sure it's more pleasant for everyone involved if the players all know their roles and get along well, but I don't think it automatically translates into wins.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    I'm not sure the chemistry is better because of Artest being out of the picture. I couldn't find exact quotes, but I remember several of them, including Jamaal and JO, have some positive regards about him. If they really don't like him, they don't have to say anything about it. I truely feel that the improved chemistry is due to riding through the storm together rather than you-know-who is gone, just my two cents.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Rim, maybe we have a little different definition of "team chemistry" You seem to be implying that team chemistry is how well the guys get along. Correct me if I am wrong.

    I tend to think Team Chemistry is individual players willingness to sacrifice their individual agendas for the betterment of the team.

    Shaq might have hated Kobe and vice versa, but but they were willing to work together to win

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    UB, I think Bruno's answer is very interesting...

    He gave both sides of the debate something to 'chew on', but he didn't give either side the answer they wanted.

    Of course, as the Pacers' PR man, he just can't come out and say, "These guys are so glad he's not around to disrupt things". But he didn't exactly say the guys miss Ron.

    What's most telling is this sentence,

    "While the team will continue to miss Ron Artest's defense and intensity..."

    Pretty much sums up what you and I both think about the situation. You think they can't win big without him because of the defense and intensity he brings; I think the only thing they miss is his on-court performance because they've grown tired of his antics over the years.

    Your thoughts?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Rim, maybe we have a little different definition of "team chemistry" You seem to be implying that team chemistry is how well the guys get along. Correct me if I am wrong.

    I tend to think Team Chemistry is individual players willingness to sacrifice their individual agendas for the betterment of the team.

    Shaq might have hated Kobe and vice versa, but but they were willing to work together to win
    Well, they were for three seasons. Last season, not so much...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  14. #14
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    See what Ron was willing to sacrifice for the sake of team chemistry? Sorry - couldn't resist.

    Chemistry is overrated. The Bulls of the 90's had lousy team chemistry. Pippen thought he should have been the superstar, Rodman was a loon (when he was with them) and Scottie even sat down if he wasn't happy with the way a play was called at the end of games. How many titles did they win?

    Anyone think the Lakers 3 championship teams had good team chemistry with Shaq and Kobe sharing the stage?

    Every time I hear or read something about team chemistry I just roll my eyes. I'm sure it's more pleasant for everyone involved if the players all know their roles and get along well, but I don't think it automatically translates into wins.
    Anyone who saw the '99 Pacers team, as opposed to the '00 team, can tell you that chemistry is not overrated.

    Speaking of which, maybe the chemistry is better not because Ron is gone, but because Al is.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Let me sum up my opinion on chemistry, because I think many of you have a similar opinion:

    Excellent chemistry can't really help a good team improve; talent and coaching are more important than chemistry. But bad chemistry can keep a good team from becoming a great team (or a great team from becoming a champion).

    Sometimes, on a bad team (think, the 2000-01 Chicago Bulls), you can't tell if its bad talent, bad chemistry, bad coaching, or all of the above.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Thanks Man....I try.

    But when you know that your teammates are willing to do those things for you, the dirty things, you feel better about passing up a good shot for a better one. When you view your teammates as family, chemistry is bound to be better.

    (Although it's another debate, I look at RA as very close to being MVP of the pacers, if not the one.)
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by canyoufeelit
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    Team chemistry at a high point with Artest out of the picture? Interesting...
    I thought about that too. Between not having to look over their shoudler to see if he does something... odd, and what I was hearing post 'retirement', it could be a load off their shoulders while simultaneously a bunker mentality of the post-brawl.

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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    I actually had something to say, but 86's avatar is distracting me. Holy crap.

    Chemistry is not overrated, I once made rocket fuel out of household cleaning supplies, fun stuff. Blew a hole in my backyard though, man was I dumb.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Pacers P.R. in action.

    Did anybody think that he was going to come back & say "no, I haven't noticed a thing" or "no, the truth is that morale has been dampened by the brawl".

    You can always pick up nuggets from them but never ever ever forget that this is the Pacers web sight. It is owned by the Pacers & Conrad Brunner is no longer a journalist, he is a paid employee of the Indiana Pacers.

    I wouldn't read anything into the Artest part one way or another.

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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    I don't buy it to be a "Pacers P.R. in action." move. They didn't need to do this; and certainly didn't need to hype it. I think Conrad was being honest.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    UB, I think Bruno's answer is very interesting...

    He gave both sides of the debate something to 'chew on', but he didn't give either side the answer they wanted.

    Of course, as the Pacers' PR man, he just can't come out and say, "These guys are so glad he's not around to disrupt things". But he didn't exactly say the guys miss Ron.

    What's most telling is this sentence,

    "While the team will continue to miss Ron Artest's defense and intensity..."

    Pretty much sums up what you and I both think about the situation. You think they can't win big without him because of the defense and intensity he brings; I think the only thing they miss is his on-court performance because they've grown tired of his antics over the years.

    Your thoughts?

    Jay, I agre with what you are saying.

    Artest is a distraction, I would say the players in a way probably can relax with Artest not being around the team. maybe they are even relieved to a certain degree.

    However,

    I would argue that Artest is by far a net plus because of how gret a player he is. Where as you would argue artest is a net minus.


    Jay, if Artest weren't so good, then I would agree with you. But Artest is a star player. He is a top 10 player IMo, and certainly a top 15 player, so until a team offers the pacers a top 15 player for Artest, I don't think the Pacers should trade him.


    How often have the Pacers had a top 10 player. never until they got J.O and now they also have artest. How do 2 top 10 layers play on the same team. Not very often and when they do they usually win multiple championships.

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    How often have the Pacers had a top 10 player. never until they got J.O and now they also have artest. How do 2 top 10 layers play on the same team. Not very often and when they do they usually win multiple championships.
    Except when one is off his rocker.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I wouldn't read anything into the Artest part one way or another.
    Party pooper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I don't buy it to be a "Pacers P.R. in action." move. They didn't need to do this; and certainly didn't need to hype it. I think Conrad was being honest.
    It looks like a major P.R.-type comment to me. But then again, I think that when the players are talking about chemistry, they are just regurgitating the politically correct answer they have been taught to say in public/ to the media. Left to thier own devices, they might have something different to say. Heck, I had "lessons" in how to deal with the media and I was just a Div. III track star being interviewed by the County newspaper.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    Chemistry is not overrated, I once made rocket fuel out of household cleaning supplies, fun stuff. Blew a hole in my backyard though, man was I dumb.
    I totally agree. Last year in my high school chem class(although it was for IU credit) we actually made ice cream by hand. Twice actually. Made the class worth taking.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team chemistry 'I haven't seen since the 2000 NBA Finals team'

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Jay, I agre with what you are saying.

    Artest is a distraction, I would say the players in a way probably can relax with Artest not being around the team. maybe they are even relieved to a certain degree.

    However,

    I would argue that Artest is by far a net plus because of how gret a player he is. Where as you would argue artest is a net minus.


    Jay, if Artest weren't so good, then I would agree with you. But Artest is a star player. He is a top 10 player IMo, and certainly a top 15 player, so until a team offers the pacers a top 15 player for Artest, I don't think the Pacers should trade him.


    How often have the Pacers had a top 10 player. never until they got J.O and now they also have artest. How do 2 top 10 layers play on the same team. Not very often and when they do they usually win multiple championships.
    (1) Would you call a healthy Baron Davis a top-fifteen player? Three years ago I would've... even though he's not "my style" of PG.

    (2) I undersand what you're saying. Just to be clear, because I assume everybody knows I think this but then I get a reputation around here as a Pacers/ Ron hater: I agree that, on-the-court, Ron is a top-fifteen player. Heck, for seven games this year he may have even been a top-five player. But I still think, even at that level of on-court excellence, his selfish play (at crucial times) and distractions hurts the Pacers more than he helps.

    (3) I might even prefer to agree with you that he should only be traded for a top-fifteen talent, but that's just unreasonable. Based on his on-court play, he's very, very underpaid and there's no other top-fifteen player that he can be traded for under the CBA (well, one if you count Peja as a top-fifteen player. I like Peja, but top-fifteen... ) Based on his off-court distractions, and selfish play, he's very, very overpaid (or perhaps more accurately, his contract is entirely too long). He was offered to like a half-dozen teams last summer, and folks like Jerry West basically said he wouldn't add Artest to his guys at any cost.

    And since that's unreasonable, and I think he causes more harm than good, I'm just willing to accept less (even much, much less).
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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