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Thread: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Depending on what you read or who you listen to you would have to consider that we should just forfeit now and save the rest of society the trouble of having to wait for the Heat to do the inevitable and make the finals.

    I mean according to some what we witnessed tonight was nothing short of the Heat just being the Heat and there is nothing anyone can do to stop them when they are like that.

    Look Iíll give them full credit, they hit their shots. They did the one thing that jump shooting teams have to do to win games and when they are successful it looks impressive and impossible to stop. They spread the floor and that ultimately opens up the paint area and soon you are trying to guard both but end up guarding neither.

    Itís obviously not as simple as that but at the end of the day it really somewhat is. Haslem shoots closer to 50% in the first half than this game changes. Bosh doesnít drop 2/3 from beyond the arc and again youíre looking at a different game.

    But simply put neither of those things happened so you end up with a game where we donít look like we are even good enough to win another quarter let alone game.

    Iím here to say that I donít believe that this result will happen again.

    Now here is why this is so odd for me to be saying that. You can ask Diamond Dave but prior to the game I said I felt like we would get pummeled and I even specifically said Haslem would be the problem. I remember game 4 from last year all to well, I know what he is capable of when he gets going.

    Again Iím not taking anything away from them but in his case I felt that we should have made some adjustments earlier on if for no other reason than to make him shoot from a different spot on the floor. I believe 7 of his 8 makes were from the exact same spot and the one shot he missed was from the same spot but on the opposite side of the basket.

    We should have done something, I donít know exactly what mind you, but something to move him off of that spot. Even make him shoot from the elbow, just not the open baseline jumpers that he was in a groove hitting on. I know that is easier said that done but I think I would much rather have been beaten by LeBron having to score 40 than to be beat because he scored 17.

    I want to say again I give the Heat full credit, they made adjustments, they hit their shots and they made a concerted effort to hit the boards.

    But I donít think that we approached the game with the energy or purpose that you need to win a game 3 at home. I mean we got almost nothing from our wings who shot a combined 5-20 from the floor and we all know that if you are getting nothing from your starting wings you are certainly not going to get anything at all from your bench wings.

    While George Hill had a very good shooting game he really did a very poor job on the defensive side of the ball and did not facilitate much offense at all and his backup just did nothing.

    West had a decent game on offense but was part of the problem as to why we couldnít defend as he just can not rotate laterally or help defend the rim. His backup was actually a detriment when he was on the floor.

    Roy was great and his backup actually managed to not defecate on the floor so that in and of itself made him the best bench player on our team.

    In other words what Iím saying is that while the Heat were great I donít feel like we were at our best in this game and thus we have room to improve and wonít come out the same way next game. Obviously if Iím wrong were dead and the series is over, but I just donít think it will happen again.

    Also Iím going to go ahead and complain now about this. Iím tired of us being called a physical team and an irritating team yet we donít have one single person on our team who will put a solid hard foul on anyone. If you saw Battier again during this game he was hitting Roy on the head on purpose while attempting to get rebounds. He was called for a foul but believe me it was more than that.

    I just want once for one of our guys to actually provide him with one of those physical fouls that we are all so often accused of but we all know that wonít happen.

    Also while we are asking, any hopes that Wade gets a fine for flopping when the Ref just looked at him as he fell out of bounds when he didnít get the call on Mahinmi?

    Letís just do grade.

    Paul George: C+

    Passive, unaggressive and whatever other adjective you want to use there. Iím not sure 10 shots is enough for him and while I appreciate him wanting to get everyone involved we donít need him to be John Stockton. We need him to be aggressive and make either Wade or James spend energy defending him. He played decent defense but when they went to James on the block Paul was very pedestrian, which is no insult btw as there is really nobody going to guard him there.

    David West: B

    Typical West game in some ways. Strong offensive production for a half, goes away for awhile and then come back with more offense later. But his defense tonight was really exposed because he is just not very quick laterally. But he did at least hit the boards.

    Roy Hibbert: A
    Again Iím not sure what more Roy could have done other that shoot better from the field. I mean that one hook shot really looked like an alley oop to Sam Young but other than that the guy almost had a 20/20 game including hitting 12-15 from the line. Again if Haslem doesnít hit those shots this game is different and Royís game would be heralded as a giant game. But alas it didnít happen that way.

    George Hill: B-

    Yeah that might be a little more harsh than he deserves but to me he offered so little defensive resistance to Chalmers that it really hurt the team. When they have Roy away from the rim we have no one who can protect it and George has got to be more aware of that. He also didnít help much on the boards. He was great from the field though.

    Lance Stephenson: C

    Erratic as hell.

    Tyler Hansbrough: C-

    For Godís sake at least hit your free throws. I did have to actually wonder if maybe there wasnít a solar eclipse or something going on as he managed to hit a face up jump shot, which was maybe the 3rd heís hit all season long.

    D.J. Augustine: D+



    Ian Mahinmi: B

    The only bench player that actually contributed, which is not really praise. But he was perfect from the field and did hit his rebounds.

    Iím not wasting any time on the garbage time players.

    The good news is that we start the next game 0-0 so no matter how badly that looked, and it looked bad, it all is new the next game.

    Personally I think we can shake this off and can come back but I will go ahead and use the dreaded ďmust winĒ game. We canít go down 3-1 because we wonít come back from that.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    I think the more experienced players such as Hill and West knew what to expect. Hibbert had a decent game but missed a few shots in close and passed up a couple more. George and Lance both settled for shots the Pacers want the opposition to take. They went 1 on 1 with little ball movement and shot long 2s. George had 2 bad turnovers in the first quarter when the game was close but overall 10 turnovers isn't bad. I would have thought the Pacers would have a great chance with only 10 turnovers but the problem was the Heat only had half that number. Must be close to the record for lowest turnovers. Lastly, the free throw shooting has been erratic from game to game. A better percentage this game would have made a contest of it.

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    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    If you want to defend Haslem's baseline shot, Hibbert will have to come out of the paint consistently, unless they can think of a different adjustment. He was not able to get back out quickly enough. Miami's ball movement was extraordinary - another huge factor in their offensive success.

    Do I think we could have played better D first half? Perhaps. At least with more energy. But, this was about Miami playing like a juggernaut offensively for two quarters. That doesn't mean they can replicate it. Series is far from over, but Miami just threw down the gauntlet. If you want to beat us for the series, you'll have to take it to another level.
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Honestly I don't think they will make that many shots as they did last night. Their execution was unbelievable. We just need to come out Tuesday and be mentally ready to stop them and just play with the most emotion we ever have
    Smothered Chicken!

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    I thought the Pacers looked like they were expecting the home court to provide the necessary ingredient for them to win. That they didn't have to play as hard or smart or execute as well as they needed to. The remembered last year and thought the simple act of playing at home would give them the boost they needed to win game 3. There seemed an emotional disconnect for some reason. No anger or frustration, just a kind of 'gee that sucked' acceptance.

    The Heat made a very nice series of adjustments, and the Pacers just didn't seem able to cope with them. The 'LeBron in the post' thing is a good thing to see. It means the Heat are really worried about the outcome of the series. That move only seems to come out when the Heat think they can't win any other way. If Frank can figure out an effective counter, he will be named COY for the next decade by acclamation.

    This seemed another game where the team missed Danny. Both spiritually and physically.

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    Ain't Happening BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Miami made some good adjustments and they worked, but we also helped them by missing 14 free throws. A team like the Pacers is not going to win the NBA championship missing so many free throws. We just don't have much room for error against the Heat when they are in top form.

    Also, I think we need to double LeBron when he gets Paul in the post. I know that will open up shots for Miami though. Pick your poison. Otherwise, have Sam play more minutes. Maybe try going really big with Lance at PG and pound it deeper into the paint. Have Lance post up Chalmers and do the same thing Miami is doing to us.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    . . . Also, I think we need to double LeBron when he gets Paul in the post. I know that will open up shots for Miami though. Pick your poison. Otherwise, have Sam play more minutes. Maybe try going really big with Lance at PG and pound it deeper into the paint. Have Lance post up Chalmers and do the same thing Miami is doing to us.
    I think you're right about doubling. When LeBron has the ball in the post, the rest of the team is on the other side of the court. That doesn't seem to be very good spacing and that someone should be able to double from the weak side.

    One of the areas that the Pacers really really miss Danny is in the post. Neither Paul or Lance seem to be able to use their size advantage very well in the post. That is an area that I hope both of them work on this summer. There is very little point in being bigger/stronger/longer if you can't use that size to your advantage.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Good write up Peck I walked away from that feeling the exact same way that you did with feeling like I just saw a jump shooting team shoot out of their minds I mean they haven't even played that well at home but I agree also the only thing that bothers me Lebron posting up Paul and we need to figure that one out if at all possible that's about the only adjustment I would consider.

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    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Few thoughts.

    Nobody was interested in playing defense tonight.

    The flopping was at an all time high. If they're going to flop, I really wish someone would lay a good, HARD shot on Battier as he attempted a layup or something. If he wants to fall down every play, we may as well MAKE him fall down and hard.

    Paul def needs to be more aggressive. Drive to the basket and draw some fouls...which leads me to...

    If we are going to beat this team, we have to hit at least 85% of our FT's (if not higher) we also need to find a way to stop consistently missing bunny layups. Lance and West each missed a few at critical times during our comeback bid in the 3rd.

    All in all it sucks to give home court advantage back to Miami. If you think about it though, we're in the same position the Hear were in last year--coming off of a game 3 blowout. Just as MIA needed a Herculean effort from their star players last year, this team needs the same type of effort from at least 2 or 3 starters next game (looking at you PG)

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    Member joew8302's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    I said this on the other thread, but I am just still completely baffled as to how we came out with so little energy and enthusiasm in such a big game.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    I have repeatedly said this.

    Lebron can not beat us by himself. Pacers need to force him to try.

    So let him try and score in the post against PG. PG is playing good defense..he's just not strong enough to stop him. But I do think he's strong enough to tire him out. Lebron is not going to want to play in the post the entire game. I'm not opposed to helping every once in a while. But it just means that someone is getting an open shot.

    I'm also not sure about this performance from Wade. If he's playing well, the Heat are so much harder to beat. But can he do that again, on his knee?

    Why did we give up Dahntay too?

  20. #12

    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I said this on the other thread, but I am just still completely baffled as to how we came out with so little energy and enthusiasm in such a big game.
    Seems like they listened to the media. After the 2 games in Miami, the media made the Pacers out to be a little more than they actually are. They listened and read about it and might have got a little over-confident in themselves. Played 2 great games in Miami, haven't lost on their homecourt during the POs, PG is a superstar ............. POOF. Gone.

    Live, learn, get better.

  21. #13
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    if Bosh shoots that well this series is over. haslem wont hopefully repeat last nights performance. then again, i thought the same of birdman. birdman is destroying any momentum for us this series. sucks miamis role players are playing this well.

    despite wades solid play last night he still doesnt look right all the way. in fact, enough that miami made it almost a point it seemed to get bosh involved last night. quick to say haslem, birdman will not repeat. but i know bosh probably can. his 3's look like free throw opporutunities.

    overall the team seemed really flat last night.

    GOLD OUT GAME 4

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    I've been wishing someone on the Knicks would be possessed by the ghost of Charles Oakley (since Oak's still alive I'm not sure how that would work but I can still wish can't I?) Sounds like you need a bit of the same from DD. Heck, being as you're playing the Heat I'd even loan you Charles. There was a day when players flopping were considered wimps - remember Vlade? Today they're apparently valued as artists.

    But you need the physicality not to stop the flopping though it would be a nice fringe benefit. You need it to remind the Heat of the terms under which this series is to be played. You let them completely forget it last night.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Paul needs to force Lebron to the hook in the lane and not the drop step baseline. It was poor post defense against a strong above average post player in Lebron. There is a reason that Lebron had not gone to the block earlier. He is really good there. But much better face up dribbler. Paul is one of the best perimeter defenders. Melo got going with his back to the basket, and he is a much better post player than Lebron. Lebron just used his strength to get to the baseline.

    Force him into the lane. Have West drop down and force Bosh to hit from the top (better than the corner three and better than a Haslem baseline).

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Miami made some good adjustments and they worked, but we also helped them by missing 14 free throws. A team like the Pacers is not going to win the NBA championship missing so many free throws. We just don't have much room for error against the Heat when they are in top form.

    Also, I think we need to double LeBron when he gets Paul in the post. I know that will open up shots for Miami though. Pick your poison. Otherwise, have Sam play more minutes. Maybe try going really big with Lance at PG and pound it deeper into the paint. Have Lance post up Chalmers and do the same thing Miami is doing to us.

    I said prior to the playoffs the Pacers poor FT shooting would bite them. It did in game they lost to NY and this one now. They got to the line 44 times, but you can't miss 14 FT(30-44) and expect to compete let alone win.

    PG never showed up for the game. The Pacers had only 10 TO's and Paul had 5 of them. He did nothing to offset his silly sloppy TO's.

    Where was the "D" in this game? The "D" just wasn't there like in the previous 2 games. They never ran anyone off the 3 point line. How many times do they have to allow Haslem to hit 3's b4 they figure out he can't be allowed to shoot them?

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    I think you're right about doubling. When LeBron has the ball in the post, the rest of the team is on the other side of the court. That doesn't seem to be very good spacing and that someone should be able to double from the weak side.

    One of the areas that the Pacers really really miss Danny is in the post. Neither Paul or Lance seem to be able to use their size advantage very well in the post. That is an area that I hope both of them work on this summer. There is very little point in being bigger/stronger/longer if you can't use that size to your advantage.

    The Pacers used their size the 1st 2 games. They just got away from using it or was taken away from using it this game.

    Please lets quit with the "if only Granger was playing" tripe. He isn't and that's it. You can't use Granger not playing as an excuse. More relevant is the Pacers newest Allstar didn't bring his game last night.

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    It's amazing that we've gotten as far as we have with such a pitiful bench. That's a testament to how great our starters have been all season. The problem is that we don't have much margin for error with our starters. If one of the big four is off like Paul was last night, then we are in a very precarious situation.

    Our bench had 16 points last night compared to 28 from Miami's. In Game 2, we won the game despite getting just 5 points from the bench, which is incredible. Sure games are by and large decided by the starters, but having a bench that can come in and give you some points is crucial when the starters are resting. Most lottery teams have a better bench than the Pacers. It's just pitiful what we're throwing out there. In order to win, our starters have to outscore Miami's starters by a sizable margin given that their bench is going to wax ours. It's a tough task.

    No one can beat Miami when they kick it into that extra gear. You knew it would be a long day when Haslem was draining jumper after jumper. I agree that PG needs to be much more aggressive.

    Sure Lance has been erratic, but what do you expect from a player who is playing the first real minutes of his career? He is a rookie in a practical sense given that he barely played in the previous two seasons. Now he's going up against the best team in the league, so it's no surprise that he's struggling. The problem is that we have a super thin team and really have no other option when he's struggling.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 05-27-2013 at 11:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    It's amazing that we've gotten as far as we have with such a pitiful bench. That's a testament to how great our starters have been all season. The problem is that we don't have much margin for error with our starters. If one of the big four is off like Paul was last night, then we are in a very precarious situation.

    Our bench had 16 points last night compared to 28 from Miami's. In Game 2, we won the game despite getting just 5 points from the bench, which is incredible. Sure games are by and large decided by the starters, but having a bench that can come in and give you some points is crucial when the starters are resting. Most lottery teams have a better bench than the Pacers. It's just pitiful what we're throwing out there. In order to win, our starters have to outscore Miami's starters by a sizable margin given that their bench is going to wax ours. It's a tough task.

    No one can beat Miami when they kick it into that extra gear. You knew it would be a long day when Haslem was draining jumper after jumper. I agree that PG needs to be much more aggressive.

    Sure Lance has been erratic, but what do you expect from a player who is playing the first real minutes of his career? He is a rookie in a practical sense given that he barely played in the previous two seasons. Now he's going up against the best team in the league, so it's no surprise that he's struggling. The problem is that we have a super thin team and really have no other option when he's struggling.

    Agreed. I have tried to ignore the bench and just focus on the starters, but it is just alarming how bad we become going to the second unit.

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  34. #20
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    It seemed to me like the comeback was thwarted, and all momentum lost, when PG got into the paint, hit the shot, and was called for a questionable foul thus hanging another foul on him and wiping out the basket. And, I suppose there was probably an initial sense the foul was going against Miami and we'd have an and 1 opportunity. But that wasn't how it played out and it just seemed like we quickly were buried in a hole again.
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    It seemed to me like the comeback was thwarted, and all momentum lost, when PG got into the paint, hit the shot, and was called for a questionable foul thus hanging another foul on him and wiping out the basket. And, I suppose there was probably an initial sense the foul was going against Miami and we'd have an and 1 opportunity. But that wasn't how it played out and it just seemed like we quickly were buried in a hole again.
    no the comeback was ruined when PG had that amazing pass to Lance in the paint and Lance blew the layup

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  38. #22
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    That play hurt too but I thought we were still within spitting distance after that for a little bit before things slipped away...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    The type of game last night is the one I didn't want to see. Offensively, the Pacers did pretty well (considering what they are fully capable of doing) - we mainly just failed on the defensive end. As Peck said, when all the weapons are working you simply can't guard against enough of them at once.

    This is another step for a maturing team, though - they can't blame it on poor shooting or a poor bench or even missed free throws, they have to realize that they played fairly well and got clocked by an elite team. That should lead to the lightbulb moment that to be an elite team you have to play like one and not just be satisfied with an "ok" game.

    I'm surprisingly calm about this one. We'll see how things go Tuesday - let's keep the split at home and make sure we get a Game 6.
    BillS

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    Member IndyHoya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I said prior to the playoffs the Pacers poor FT shooting would bite them. It did in game they lost to NY and this one now. They got to the line 44 times, but you can't miss 14 FT(30-44) and expect to compete let alone win.

    PG never showed up for the game. The Pacers had only 10 TO's and Paul had 5 of them. He did nothing to offset his silly sloppy TO's.

    Where was the "D" in this game? The "D" just wasn't there like in the previous 2 games. They never ran anyone off the 3 point line. How many times do they have to allow Haslem to hit 3's b4 they figure out he can't be allowed to shoot them?
    Spot on, IMO. Missing 14 FTs is particularly key. We have to concentrate and really value EVERY opportunity we have to score with Miami.

    The flopping last night was ridiculous. The NBA $5,000 fine is ridiculous too. It's no deterrent whatsoever. $5,000 is chump change for a guy like Wade and I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron/Wade pay Battier and Chalmers fines (assuming they get one).

    The refereeing was typically NBA bad. I liked it, actually, in Game 1 and 2 in that, aside from permitting Wade's ridiculously apparent hit on Lance, the officials didn't let the Heat get away with murder. But the Mauer crew, from the tip, were pretty awful. The laughable foul call on the Heat opening fast break layup, to me, set the tone for a game where the calls or lack of calls was erratic and comical. Touch fouls were called outside while murder was permitted in the paint. It affected our rebounding, I think. The Box Score said we outrebounded the Heat by 9, but that mostly came in garbage time. When it mattered, the Heat outrebounded us.

  42. #25

    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Game 3 Round 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The type of game last night is the one I didn't want to see. Offensively, the Pacers did pretty well (considering what they are fully capable of doing) - we mainly just failed on the defensive end. As Peck said, when all the weapons are working you simply can't guard against enough of them at once.

    This is another step for a maturing team, though - they can't blame it on poor shooting or a poor bench or even missed free throws, they have to realize that they played fairly well and got clocked by an elite team. That should lead to the lightbulb moment that to be an elite team you have to play like one and not just be satisfied with an "ok" game.

    I'm surprisingly calm about this one. We'll see how things go Tuesday - let's keep the split at home and make sure we get a Game 6.
    We failed on the defensive end, but it was partly due to the fact that good offense was also beating good defense. Lost some points due to fundamental lapses (lack of boxing out, etc.), but to stand toe to toe when a team shoots 65% in that first quarter was at least one positive I took from the game. The other positive: take away that second quarter where the Heat just kept hitting (but we didn't keep pace) and it's a completely different game. The end of the first quarter (outscored 6-2) and whole second quarter really sealed our fate--after that we really couldn't recover. Except for about 13 minutes, the game was fairly evenly matched. In fact, if we just hit those free throws at other points in the game sandwiched around when we attempted the comeback, you are talking about the possibility of another nail-biter at the end.

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