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Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

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  • #1

    Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
    He blocks J.R. Smiths pitiful attempts to the ground

    Helpless New Yorker sit and complain
    Scream, as bug-eyes gazes down on them

    He picks up the rock and he slams it back down
    As he wades through the wreckage of Knickerbockers on the ground

    Oh, no, they say he’s got to go
    Go, go Royzilla
    Oh, no, there goes Shumpert’s dome
    Go, go Royzilla

    History shows again and again how playing with strength makes you the man
    Royzilla

    Sorry I had to update my Royzilla song from the Houston game. If Roy Hibbert doesn’t deserve to be immortalized in song then I don’t know who should. I mean he didn’t do anything special really; all he did was take over, dominate and save the game. Other than that he didn’t do all that much.

    Look I can already tell you I have very little patience tonight with the national NBA media and their narrative about J.R. Smith battling through the avian flu to valiantly attempt to provide the spark the team needed yet he was too ill to perform. Or how Roy is good but Tyson Chandler has a debilitating cervical spine injury that through the power of prayer and outstanding team physicians have managed to keep him on the floor and not laid up in a Hospital. To quote Al Swearengen from Deadwood “none of that means nothing to me”.

    No, I’m not buying it and even if I did I don’t care. Not when I have to sit there and view Danny Granger in a beige suite. It’s the playoffs, nobody is feeling good and at the end of the day you get to play who you have. Now if Mello went down I’d listen but he’s still playing.

    Nope, we just beat them from stem to stern and they didn’t like it. Look it wasn’t pretty and frankly I didn’t really exhale and consider the game in hand until about the 1 min. mark left in the game. But that is because I am overly pessimistic and a worry wart, the fact of the matter is the game was in hand really mid way through the 4th and for as troubling as it was for me we actually led for the vast majority of the game. I don’t remember what team it was earlier in the year but someone said that a 10 point deficit to the Pacers felt far more like a 20 point deficit due to our stingy defense.

    Well stingy was in full effect in the fieldhouse tonight, God knows it wasn’t our proficiency on the offensive end what was just absolutely terrifying to me all night long.

    But the defense, man what can you say about the defense our club plays? It’s really odd because in some ways this game was almost opposite game for us. We had Roy getting no blocked shots yet he was our leading scorer shooting 50% from the field. While Paul was a ball stealing fool, yet shot the ball as though he were channeling the spirit of Chris Dudley.

    Hey, whatever works I’m all for it. If it means that Lance leads us in rebounds and David West leads us in assist and we get the win, I don’t really care. What makes our team so special is this simple fact as well, to a man they don’t really care either. In other words there are no stat whores here (Roy gets upset when he doesn’t get a block but I think we can forgive him this one sin), they simply want to win. That’s rare on a veteran team, but for a team that is still somewhat young and still growing that has got to be almost unheard of.

    I want to say this again because….well just honestly I like saying it out loud and I love to read it whenever it written. We are the leagues best defensive and rebounding team.

    God I love that, I mean think back just 3 or 4 short years ago and remember how we neither rebounded nor defended and to think just in that short time we have not only started doing it, WE ARE THE BEST AT IT.

    But before we get too happy with ourselves there are still things to be very cautious about.

    1. I love the fact that we are built to defend and that is how we play. But at the end of the day you have to score more than your opponent and I just don’t trust the Knicks to not be able to score. I never want us to lose our defensive intensity but we have got to start doing something more productive on the offensive end. We had a lot of bad plays wiped away thanks to Roy grabbing 8 offensive rebounds and as a team grabbing 18. We just can’t count on that to be our offensive plan.
    2. We are falling into the three point trap they have built for us. 33 three point shots is, well it’s putrid is what it is. I hate when we shoot more than 12 as a team let alone have both Hill & George shoot 12 each. Of course you are open for a three point shot, that is the shot the Knicks are giving you and wanting you to take. We really truly have to figure out some way to drive the ball to the rim and if nothing else get some kind of mid range shot.
    3. David West finally started to play well after the half but in the first half he missed a lot of easy bunny shots right at the rim again. While I appreciate what he has done for us the fact of the matter is out of 9 playoff games I think David has had maybe 3 or 4 good games. He started to control the glass tonight in the second half so I’ll give him somewhat of a break but the honest truth is that Iman Shumpert actually missed several wide open 12-14’ shots that had he even hit half of them we would really have had to worry.

    But we’re not going to spend the night belaboring all of the things that could have gone wrong because, well they didn’t and I truly believe that each game is its own game. In other words what worked or didn’t work this game may or may not work the next game.

    Also let me address the crowd issue a little here. Again it was a legitimate sell out and I’ll go so far as to say that this was a 95% or maybe even higher pure Pacers crowd. Were there Knicks fans there? Yes but they were few and far between.

    Side note, I hope Spike had to pay a pretty penny to watch his beloved team lose. Thank you Spike for supporting our states economy by contributing to our tax base.

    Anyway I’ve read a couple of places people complaining about the crowd. My answer is kind of two fold one of which is going to make be probably unpopular with some of our fans.

    A. If you weren’t there you don’t know. The crowd was plenty into the game and at times it was so loud I could not hear Grady on the P.A. and frankly we couldn’t hear Area 55, the G2 zone or even the drum line most of the night. This is simply because the crowd was loud at times, and really loud at other times.
    B. This wasn’t the type of game where there was lots to cheer about other than solid game long play. The crowd got up when we got a steal, hit a shot or fought for a loose ball (it was deafening when Tyler got that out of bounds call that should have gone against him in all fairness, it was clearly off of his knee).

    Honestly I’m sick of feeling the need to defend our fan base. They are here, they have been loud and other than throwing crap on the floor I don’t know what else some people want. No, we don’t all stand all game long and jump in unison but this place is sold out and they are cheering and booing at the appropriate times.

    Speaking of booing I have now found my new front runner to replace Bennett Salvatore & Joey Crawford as my most hated official whenever they retire. Tony Brothers had an epically bad basketball game. At first he seemed hell bent on keeping the score close by calling horrible call after horrible call against the Pacers but he then decided to take on Joey Crawfords “look at me, look at me of please God look at me” persona by giving us his best WWE official dance when he called that ball out of bounds on Chandler. Go back and watch video of his over acting and over gyrating, simply uncalled for and frankly unprofessional. He is NOT there to emphatically do anything, he is just there to call a game not be part of the show.

    Oh well we won’t let him get us down either although he initially tried everything in his power to do so.

    Let’s hit the grades.

    Paul George: B+

    Look the killer D he is playing really is always going to merit a high grade but I just can’t live with him take 12 of his 17 shots from behind the arc. I know that this is often times the result of reversing the ball but for the love of God not every time is this the case. Drive, post up, do something, anything other than just settle for the three in particular when you can’t hit it. If nothing else guys his play should give us some confidence moving forward. He hasn’t had a really good offensive game yet in this series and didn’t have many after the first few Atlanta games so if he ever can break out and start hitting it should be special. As always was all over the place getting boards, passing the ball and causing general disruption to the passing lanes and overall making life hell on Carmello Anthony. Still led everyone in turnovers (again) but he at least cut it down a little.

    David West: B-

    At least I won’t complain tonight about effort. I have no idea why all of a sudden after the regular season he can’t hit easy short shots but it is enough to make me want to pull out my hair. But he started to hit the boards and tonight he actually seemed like he could move a little better on the defensive end. Again, just like with Paul, he hasn’t really had many good games in the playoffs yet either. So if he can get it going, along with Paul would be really nice, it could be special.

    Roy Hibbert: A+++

    A real legitimate Center, nuff said. Excelsior!

    Lance Stephenson: B

    Not sure what happened here as Vogel closed out the game with Augustine. I have a feeling that he just was afraid that Lance would rise up and take some ill advised shots. He did that a couple of times tonight but he actually hit a couple as well. Not sure here other than Frank must have just seen something he didn’t like because while D.J. wasn’t the regular season D.J. which is horrid, he wasn’t the “where the hell has this guy been” D.J. we’ve seen so far in the Knicks series. BTW, was it my imagination or did Lance blow a kiss to Spike after his hit that three in the corner?

    George Hill: B+

    I actually hate giving him this high of a grade for this game because he actually caused me a lot of gastric distress due to his propensity to pull up and shoot the three with reckless abandon. But it can’t be denied he hit some big timely three point shots and did a really good job of taking Raymond Felton out of the game, which was very important because in my opinion Felton has been their most important player to date. Not the best player but he was the reason their offense was clicking early.

    Tyler Hansbrough: B-

    Sorry Reds fans but I’m stealing this for this grade, Charlie Hustle. Stats won’t show much but once again he came in and cause absolute mayhem and even a little destruction by giving Mello a nice second foul (you know the one that doesn’t count) after Roy had already fouled him on a drive. It would be great if he could score a little to help open up the offense but then why should he be any different than anyone else on our team?

    D.J. Augustine: B-

    I think he was in for ball control and honestly that has been one of the things he has brought during the playoffs is his ability to give us another ball handler out there. He did hit David West with a picture perfect pass for a dunk (his only assist) but it really put the lid on any form of come back the Knicks could have made. Post season D.J. vs. regular season D.J. isn’t even close. In fact it’s almost like another player altogether.

    Sam Young: C

    Didn’t kill the team which is almost akin to an A+. He actually made Mello take (and sadly hit) a couple of hard shots.

    Ian Mahinmi: C

    Like Sam he at least didn’t fall on his face.

    I’m not messing with the rest, suffice it to say it was garbage time and they did what they do.

    Look game 4 is going to be a war, we all know that now. Basically it boils down to the Knicks fighting for their playoff lives there because if they lose that one it will be very hard if not impossible to climb out of that deep of a hole.

    So that should make all of us nervous but we can take comfort in a few things.

    1. We have Frank Vogel, he will have them ready.
    2. We have Roy Hibbert (take that Jim O’Brien)
    3. Our defense has for the most part been constant.
    4. Some of our players haven’t really yet had a good overall game, they may be due.

    But let’s not let the uncertainty of the future diminish what was accomplished tonight.

    We are the lower seed so we are actually pulling a little bit of an upset by being up 2-1 in our best of 7 series.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

    here is to hoping we've took a lesson from last season and making sure we don't make the same mistake and give away game 4

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

      Stats won’t show much but once again he came in and cause absolute mayhem and even a little destruction by giving Mello a nice second foul (you know the one that doesn’t count) after Roy had already fouled him on a drive.
      Funny thing was, Tyler "fouled" Roy on that play too. He probably fouled Roy harder than he fouled Melo.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

        FWIW I heard Spike paid for 4 seats at $10,000 each.
        Pacers,baby!

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

          Yeah Lance blew a kiss in a certain direction, not sure if Spike Lee was sitting there!
          Trying to enjoy every Pacers game as if it is the last!

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

            <3 Big Roy

            <3 Deadwood

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

              Other than Lance's two in the first half and a couple Paul took after holding on to the ball too long I didn't hate the threes that much. It was the shot that was available and most of them came off ball rotation. If the open three balls continue to be there and the Pacers can hit 1/3 or more of them that will be pretty efficient offense in this series.

              On the flip side have you ever seen a team defend the three point line as well as the Pacers last night? It was oustanding and with Roy patrolling the paint the only thing left for the Knicks were awkward mid range shots and long twos.

              The bad ball security continues to be trouble and is the one thing keeping the Knicks in this series. The team is so much better offensively when the ball goes into the post/painted area early in the possesion but as long as too many of those passes going in or coming out result in turnovers scoring is going to be at a premium.

              Still waiting for the offensive force that was David West in the first half of season to show up consistently. Especially with Carmelo checking him.
              Last edited by Downtown Bang!; 05-12-2013, 07:09 AM.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

                Some thoughts on the threes:

                -Most were acceptable shots, but I still wouldn't mind cutting that down by about 10 attempts, particularly if they aren't going down readily like last night

                -Agree with the JVG suggestion to try to drive by on close outs - this can result in a shot at the rim, an open mid-range shot, or an open look for another player with an additional pass; we had a lot of good ball movement where their D was scrambling where this could have happened

                - I really wish we weren't so enamored with the 3 ball every time when we could probably turn it into an 18 footer with a dribble or two, again particularly if we aren't shooting the long ball well
                I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                -Emiliano Zapata

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

                  Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
                  Some thoughts on the threes:

                  -Most were acceptable shots, but I still wouldn't mind cutting that down by about 10 attempts, particularly if they aren't going down readily like last night

                  -Agree with the JVG suggestion to try to drive by on close outs - this can result in a shot at the rim, an open mid-range shot, or an open look for another player with an additional pass; we had a lot of good ball movement where their D was scrambling where this could have happened

                  - I really wish we weren't so enamored with the 3 ball every time when we could probably turn it into an 18 footer with a dribble or two, again particularly if we aren't shooting the long ball well
                  That is great point on the dribble drive with the close out. It should result in some easy finishes at the rim or if they rotate well at least an open corner three.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HeliumFear View Post
                    FWIW I heard Spike paid for 4 seats at $10,000 each.
                    Spike offered that for 4 seats behind the Pacers bench and was turned down.

                    He was Courtside across from the Knicks bench on the end with him and someone else. I didn't hear how much those seats were or see if he had two other people with him somewhere else

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

                      I debated posting this because last night's game was so obvious but I'm going to anyway.

                      First, I can't think of a significant aspect of last night's game where we weren't outplayed. To add to it, we were outcoached. I could stop right there but I guess I won't.

                      As of this morning there's no reason whatsoever to think we're going to do anything to change the direction this series is headed. There are things we could do better which could change it, but based on a combination of our unwillingness to execute consistently, the Pacers unwillingness to allow it and how the games have been called, I see no reason for any Knick fan to have any optimism. Playoff series start developing their own character at some point. To me last night was that point and by the time there were six minutes left last night you could have given us warmup shots and we wouldn't have hit. You've made the series yours and while things can turn around quickly there's no rational reason for me to think it will. It's left to prayer and I think God has better things to do than influence the outcome of NBA games.

                      On to trashing my team. The offense was a step slow last night. Three reasons for that, in order of importance: the Pacers, us, the way the games are called. Your defense is obvious. You're contesting everything and we haven't been able to create space. You've played everyone one-up and nobody has done anything to force you out of that. If Carmelo went off to where you had to double him or if, as happened earlier, Felton could get in the middle and create issues there might be some openings. None of those things have happened. As of now there's no reason to believe they will.

                      But we shouldn't go away from what we do so quickly. Granted, our guards were atrocious last night and without good guard play the offense can't run but maybe if we'd stuck with it rather than keeping the ball on one side of the floor or not spacing the floor right things would have opened up. No guarantee but we should at least try to dance with who brung ya.

                      Speaking of dancing, the officiating last night was horrible, all the way around. Tons of phantom calls and no-calls when there should have been some. Carmelo getting an offensive foul for wiping a hand check away? Chandler got called for an and-one foul on Hibbert that had me really confused. I'm sure Pacers fans could point to a bunch of them too though I don't remember them as well since they were on yours though the Melo phantom foul sticks out - on one replay I thought someone might have barely tapped him on the top of the head and those do get called but on others I didn't see it. The biggest key is that the officials let the Pacers get away with so much holding on cutters that I thought I was watching a cotillion. If one of our guys goes through the lane he's getting grabbed. At this point that's something that isn't getting called and we just have to work through it.

                      In a lot of ways individual player performance is as much or more of an issue than anything. In decreasing order of pathetic-ness;

                      Tyson Chandler. Disgusting. Pitiful. Pathetic. He's always been the biggest whiner on the team and that was the only thing he did well last night. The worst moment was in the second half where, from the moment someone had the ball in the corner Hibbert set up on the weak side for the offensive board. For about 5 seconds you could see what was coming. Chandler stood directly in front of the basket and watched. That's it, just watched. Didn't find Hibbert to put a body on him, didn't move, didn't do anything but hang out and watch. I'm sure he whined after Hibbert put it back in. He whined in the postgame about us not doubling Hibbert so it's pretty obvious that he's 100% convinced that he can't guard him straight up. Everyone else who's been a spectator at the games is convinced of this so why shouldn't he be? At this point I'd be willing to put Novak on Hibbert. He'll foul out in about 8 minutes but at least he'll try. I've been saying since the series started that without him outplaying Hibbert we can't win. Well, he won't and we can't. He's had a neck problem and didn't look right the whole Boston series but I don't care how much that makes your wheels feel heavy, just standing around watching without making an effort gets no sympathy from me. He's been owned as completely as a player can be in a one-on-one matchup. Hibbert's the better player.

                      JR Smith. It's one thing to miss shots. It's quite another where, at the one point of the game where our offense looked like it was working, at least a little bit, to jack up contested 3's with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. I'm back to where I was at this time a year ago. Please don't re-sign him this year (being outbid for him doesn't look like it'll be an issue). I suppose his shots could start falling again but there's no reason to think it'll be this series. The only JR question I have left is, if he has another game like this on Tuesday, will Knick fans boo him whenever he touches the ball Thursday?

                      Our guards, particularly Felton. Now he's been very good through two games and Prigioni has been solid and even was last night so I'm willing to call this a single-game aberration and it's not completely his fault that when he gives the ball up he never gets it back. Still, he played very passive last night. Just never tried to put pressure on the defense. And I need to figure out why Kidd's playing more than necessary rest minutes as he's doing nothing on offense and getting beat on defense. The first-half TO's were a problem last night but we cleaned that up in the 2nd and it didn't matter.

                      Melo. Actually I can't get on him too much but since he's the team's feature player I suppose I should call him out too. My only real criticism though is I wish he'd get more into his offense facing the basket rather than backing in and I don't have any idea why we never tried to free him up using a high P&R. Maybe Chandler was too busy hanging out in the paint eating peanuts or something. During the first half he was hitting shots and gave me a brief ray of hope. During the second he wasn't but I didn't see him start ISOing everything to death (though I cringed the last 5-6 minutes when he started bringing the ball up). The shots that fell in the 1st half didn't in the second. Consistent defensive pressure, which tends to happen when the ball isn't moving, will wear on you eventually. Melo has not been the problem in this series, other than being who he is - a player who, when he isn't scoring, doesn't help your team in other ways, though his defense has generally been sound.

                      Are there any positive takeaways? Well, you fell in love with the three. Hibbert should have touched the ball every possession. I suppose if you keep going that way it means we're not letting you run your offense the way you want either though I question how much of that was us and how much was you. I like watching you jack 3's up. I don't like watching you gobble offensive rebounds after misses. I suppose Amare looked much better than he did when he first came back during the season but no more than he's going to play that won't matter. He's still a defensive sieve but so was Chandler last night.

                      The only other sign of hope - and this is completely pathetic on my part to even bring it up - is that after the two days off between now and game 4, all other games in the series, if we get there, are every other day. What a goofy way to schedule a series. I long for the days when the NBA scheduled things to protect the integrity of the game, not for TV ratings. Anyway, if you have an issue with depth, it could show up then. But if we don't make you move on defense consistently that won't matter either. I hate saying that a key to the series isn't us playing better but something unrelated to what happens on the floor but this is what I'm reduced to.

                      So really I see no signs of hope. At this moment the only one is a prayer that Melo and Smith start hitting their shots. But when players are consistently in your face on defense, you tend not to do that and we don't seem willing to create mismatches, force switches, swing the ball or do much of anything to create space. So there's no reason to think this will happen either.

                      Series' have inexplicably changed in the middle before so there's no reason to throw in the towel and at least the effort's there. But as any change in this one would be inexplicable, there's no reason to think the tone you set last night won't continue. You've made it your series in tone, style of play (except the 3's), it's being called the way you need it to be called - I'm unable to see one single reason why this won't continue. Nicely done and I haven't even mentioned Vogel who's developed a heck of a team.
                      The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

                        I worry when we shoot that many 3's, but at least they tended to be late in the clock after trying a number of ways to do an entry pass or a drive, and they were almost all in rhythm to a guy ready to take the shot rather than a desperation heave as the buzzer sounded.
                        BillS

                        A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                        Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

                          Originally posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
                          I debated posting this because last night's game was so obvious but I'm going to anyway.

                          First, I can't think of a significant aspect of last night's game where we weren't outplayed. To add to it, we were outcoached. I could stop right there but I guess I won't.

                          As of this morning there's no reason whatsoever to think we're going to do anything to change the direction this series is headed. There are things we could do better which could change it, but based on a combination of our unwillingness to execute consistently, the Pacers unwillingness to allow it and how the games have been called, I see no reason for any Knick fan to have any optimism. Playoff series start developing their own character at some point. To me last night was that point and by the time there were six minutes left last night you could have given us warmup shots and we wouldn't have hit. You've made the series yours and while things can turn around quickly there's no rational reason for me to think it will. It's left to prayer and I think God has better things to do than influence the outcome of NBA games.
                          I would caution against such overreaction. Every game is different and you should expect the Knicks to play much better in Game 4. The Pacers are an imperfect team that failed to step on the neck of the Heat last year when they had them on the ropes. Of course, that series turned when LeBron and Wade went nuts offensively. Carmelo has that ability.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

                            Originally posted by Peck View Post
                            B. This wasn’t the type of game where there was lots to cheer about other than solid game long play. The crowd got up when we got a steal, hit a shot or fought for a loose ball (it was deafening when Tyler got that out of bounds call that should have gone against him in all fairness, it was clearly off of his knee).
                            Initially, I also thought we stole that ball because it clearly hits Tyler's leg before it hits the floor. However, I think the call was that he threw it off Tyson Chandler's leg which was already planted out-of-bounds.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thought's: Round 2 Game 3 2013 NBA playoffs

                              Originally posted by hoosierguy View Post
                              I would caution against such overreaction. Every game is different and you should expect the Knicks to play much better in Game 4. The Pacers are an imperfect team that failed to step on the neck of the Heat last year when they had them on the ropes. Of course, that series turned when LeBron and Wade went nuts offensively. Carmelo has that ability.

                              I generally agree. The Knicks aren't the Heat, but they are certainly more than capable of winning game four, which would put them in very favorable position with two of the final three games at MSG. So while I'm excited about the win last night, I'm also very nervous about game 4. We're either going to put a 3-1 choke hold on the series or find ourselves in a tied series with two of the final three at MSG.

                              The key to winning this series is for Hibbert to continue to look like Olajuwon. He completely dominated them last night. Aside from getting abused by Hibbert, I actually thought the Knicks defense was pretty solid. As Peck mentioned, they baited us into taking 33 three-pointers. George Hill and Paul George combining for 24 three point attempts (12 a piece) is inexcusable. Hill actually hit 5 of his, but he still has no business jacking up 12 threes. Paul OTOH shot an abysmal 2-12. Paul is a 23 year old athletic freak. Take the ball to the rack and either score or draw fouls. They are giving you those wide open threes for a reason.

                              Our defense will continue to be tough, but I don't think New York will play that poorly on offense again. We are going to have to step it up a notch offensively if we want to win this series. We're only half way to victory and there is still a lot of work to be done. Repeated offensive efforts like last night (Hibbert aside) will not be enough to close out this series.

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