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Thread: Jason Collins "comes out"

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Good for him. Lots of respect for his bravery.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Technically, he is out of the league. Now the nba looks anti-gay if he isn't signed by someone.

    I'm not saying this will be easy for him. Just saying he did what he had to do to stay in the show.
    I'm making an assumption on what you were posting earlier....but isn't it possible that instead of using this as an opportunity to force some Team/NBA to sign him ( otherwise some Team/NBA would look like they are anti-gay )......he decided to make this statement ( which I can only assume to be a meaningful one to him ) because he realizes that he's at the end of his NBA career and he therefore has nothing to lose?

    He's likely done in the NBA for other reasons OTHER THAN him "coming out", why not make this statement for a greater cause?

    If some Team does sign him, great......if no Team signs him....honestly, I would hope that it would be because that there are others that are better qualified than he is to sign to a contract....not because he came out.
    Last edited by CableKC; 04-29-2013 at 06:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm making an assumption on what you were posting earlier....but isn't it possible that instead of using this as an opportunity to force some Team/NBA to sign him ( otherwise some Team/NBA would look like they are anti-gay )......he decided to make this statement ( which I can only assume to be a meaningful one to him ) because he realizes that he's at the end of his NBA career and he therefore has nothing to lose?

    He's likely done in the NBA for other reasons OTHER THAN him "coming out", why not make this statement for a greater cause?

    If some Team does sign him, great......if no Team signs him....honestly, I would hope that it would be because that there are others that are better qualified than he is to sign to a contract.
    Collins isn't the first male pro athlete to come out...he's the first active pro athlete to come out. To do that, someone has to sign him.

    He made it clear in his statement that he sees himself as the "first," and a guy to bear the burden for the guys coming after him. For him to fill that role, he has to have a job next year.
    Last edited by Kstat; 04-29-2013 at 06:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    I struggle with criticism of Broussard because are we now criticizing someone for their religious beliefs? He does not seem to be trying to be malicious in the least. He's not saying he hates gays or that you can't be gay or that homosexuals don't deserve rights. He's merely saying what he believes based on his religion after he was asked specifically about it.
    This line if thinking doesn't hold up. Broussard is allowed to use his religious belief as a reason for criticizing someone else, but that same religious belief insulates him from someone else's criticism?

    It's a convenient cop out for those who want to use their religious beliefs to judge others, but it doesn't work that way.

    It's like those emails I've seen that end with "If you agree, pass this along. If not, ignore and do not reply"

    It's just a way to get one's point of view out there while attempting to avoid any debate. And, as we know on this forum, nothing goes unchallenged! (thank goodness)

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    This x 1,000,000.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    I thought the BS Report with Wesley Morris had some good insights into the issue.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Collins isn't the first male pro athlete to come out...he's the first active pro athlete to come out. To do that, someone has to sign him.

    He made it clear in his statement that he sees himself as the "first," and a guy to bear the burden for the guys coming after him. For him to fill that role, he has to have a job next year.
    A writer on 1070 today said 6 teams had already talked to Collins. The Wizards said Collins isn't a priority to sign right now, but would welcome him back,

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
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    This line if thinking doesn't hold up. Broussard is allowed to use his religious belief as a reason for criticizing someone else, but that same religious belief insulates him from someone else's criticism?

    It's a convenient cop out for those who want to use their religious beliefs to judge others, but it doesn't work that way.

    It's like those emails I've seen that end with "If you agree, pass this along. If not, ignore and do not reply"

    It's just a way to get one's point of view out there while attempting to avoid any debate. And, as we know on this forum, nothing goes unchallenged! (thank goodness)
    Good point.

    However:

    Broussard was still asked a question that essentially forced him to reveal his religious beliefs to some extent. He didn't say that Collin's couldn't consider himself a Christian and be gay, he said that's what his personal opinions were. I understand that criticism is merited for anyone in the US (and perhaps that was the wrong terminology). I believe that my reason to post was based more on the rumors (or the buzz) of espn penalizing him for his statements based on his religious beliefs.
    Last edited by rock747; 04-30-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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  12. #84
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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Collins isn't the first male pro athlete to come out...he's the first active pro athlete to come out. To do that, someone has to sign him.

    He made it clear in his statement that he sees himself as the "first," and a guy to bear the burden for the guys coming after him. For him to fill that role, he has to have a job next year.
    Kstat, I've been reading your posts for a long time now and I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and opinions about the game of basketball. With that in mind, your response to this story is almost as absurd as Chris Broussard's.

    So you're saying that a decision that no active male player has ever....... ever....... made before now is only doing it because he wants to get paid? Because the environment in men's professional sports isn't antagonistic or threatening to gays at all, right? So he's certainly never been afraid for the backlash that might come after coming out? Backlash like not being signed to a deal because of the potential locker room discord? The possibility for taunts and public attacks from opposing teams fans or (not a stretch) home team fans? Suddenly being COMPLETELY defined, not by your game or skill, but by your sexual orientation? You're saying that none of those things make more sense than "Damn, look at all this talk about gays. I'm gonna get PAID!"

    Someone called it a cynical response. I'd say that's an understatement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    Kstat, I've been reading your posts for a long time now and I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and opinions about the game of basketball. With that in mind, your response to this story is almost as absurd as Chris Broussard's.

    So you're saying that a decision that no active male player has ever....... ever....... made before now is only doing it because he wants to get paid? Because the environment in men's professional sports isn't antagonistic or threatening to gays at all, right? So he's certainly never been afraid for the backlash that might come after coming out? Backlash like not being signed to a deal because of the potential locker room discord? The possibility for taunts and public attacks from opposing teams fans or (not a stretch) home team fans? Suddenly being COMPLETELY defined, not by your game or skill, but by your sexual orientation? You're saying that none of those things make more sense than "Damn, look at all this talk about gays. I'm gonna get PAID!"

    Someone called it a cynical response. I'd say that's an understatement.
    That all depends on how badly he wants to keep his career going. He was a fringe nba player to been with. Nobody would have batted an eyelash if he were not on a roster next season.

    I never said this was easy for him. In fact, I already said it wasn't. I said he did what he had to do to keep his career going. That's all

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Not only what Clash said, but kstats line of thinking is so silly bc we are talking about a guy who has a degree from Stanford, one of the most renowned and respected universities in this country. He also has what a 13 or 14 yr nba career? He is a multi millionaire with a college degree from an ivy league school. He is also an end of the bench player, so he would come out to the public as gay so he can sit at the end of a bench for another year? What a silly conspiracy theory.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by ReginaldWayne View Post
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    Not only what Clash said, but kstats line of thinking is so silly bc we are talking about a guy who has a degree from Stanford, one of the most renowned and respected universities in this country. He also has what a 13 or 14 yr nba career? He is a multi millionaire with a college degree from an ivy league school. He is also an end of the bench player, so he would come out to the public as gay so he can sit at the end of a bench for another year? What a silly conspiracy theory.
    He's made $32.8 million in his career. Does he really need an extra $1.4 million? You're right, silly's a good word for it, IMO.

    I think it would have been easier for a player on a multi-year contract to come out than a player whose a fringe NBA player about to become a free agent. This could potentially end Collins career prematurely. There's some markets that may shy away from signing him just because of it.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    LOL wow this dude wants to keep his job that badly

    talk about selling out

    Wait. I should be more sensitive.

    He is more preoccupied with the burden of the economic collapse than most professional [unskilled] athletes, therefore he had to do with "coming out" in order to secure what would have been an uncertain financial future. Uh...

    The Standford education... Seems like a well-spoken man... Uh...

    Get out of here and give me a real story when a legitimate professional (or better yet, star) athlete comes out. I honestly didn't even know he was "still active." We're going to make a story out of a non-story because we can. And must.

    Otherwise, we're just sad bigots. Right?

    First "active?"

    I can't believe (and, yet, I sadly can) we are all lauding this.
    Last edited by kidthecat; 04-29-2013 at 10:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by kidthecat View Post
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    LOL wow this dude wants to keep his job that badly

    talk about selling out

    Wait. I should be more sensitive.

    He is more preoccupied with the burden of the economic collapse than most professional [unskilled] athletes, therefore he had to do with "coming out" in order to secure what would have been an uncertain financial future. Uh...

    The Standford education... Seems like a well-spoken man... Uh...

    Get out of here and give me a real story when a legitimate professional (or better yet, star) athlete comes out. I honestly didn't even know he was "still active." We're going to make a story out of a non-story because we can. And must.

    First "active?"

    I can't believe (and, yet, I sadly can) we are all lauding this.
    Is it some superstar coming out as opposed to some end of the bench player at the end of his career? Nope, but it's a start for a culture that is slowly yet surely accepting homosexuality as part of society and is something that is IMHO important. In a vacuum....he was the same basketball player that he was yesterday...a 3rd tier big man that can give you 6 fouls ( yes, there are a million other Players that can do this ).....that's all that I ( as a fan) and what teammates and Front Offices should care about. But clearly, society could care less about this and care more that there is a professional Athelete came out to the public ( see Broussard's comments ).

    Baby steps is what we are seeing here when it comes to professional Atheletes making it publicly known that he/she is gay/lesbian.

    BTW....IMHO....coming out like this only ( unfortunately ) makes it harder for him to find himself on a team as a free agent. My guess is that it wont be THE reason why he won't sign with a team ( the mere fact that there are other Players that does the same exact thing that he does )....but I can see it being one more reason to not sign him.
    Last edited by CableKC; 04-29-2013 at 11:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Is it some superstar coming out as opposed to some end of the bench player at the end of his career? Nope, but it's a start for a culture that is slowly yet surely accepting homosexuality as part of society and is something that is IMHO important. In a vacuum....he was the same basketball player that he was yesterday...a 3rd tier big man that can give you 6 fouls ( yes, there are a million other Players that can do this ).....that's all that I ( as a fan) and what teammates and Front Offices should care about. But clearly, society could care less about this and care more that there is a professional Athelete came out to the public ( see Broussard's comments ).

    Baby steps is what we are seeing here when it comes to professional Atheletes making it publicly known that he/she is gay/lesbian.

    BTW....IMHO....coming out like this only ( unfortunately ) makes it harder for him to find himself on a team as a free agent. My guess is that it wont be THE reason why he won't sign with a team ( the mere fact that there are other Players that does the same exact thing that he does )....but I can see it being one more reason to not sign him.
    Baby-steps with a purpose.

    He was at best a one-week contract in April before this...

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    I actually can't believe that some people didn't know that he was still in the NBA. I remember the Celtics almost cancelling their deal involving Leandro Barbosa and Jordan Crawford because the Wizards insisted in getting Collins and the Cs didn't want to let him go. He'll have a place in the NBA for another couple of years for the veteran minimum... I can tell you that Doc Rivers and the Celtics will take a look at him this summer for sure. To suggest that extending his career was at all the motivation for this is absurd and just very bizarre to me. Like I honestly don't even know how to respond to such an assertion.

    And Broussard was a big enough asshat for his behavior in stealing scoops and his outspokenness against homosexuals in general in the past... watching him spend five minutes talking about tolerance and thumping the Bible (or at least the parts of it that he felt like acknowledging) was embarrassing for me to watch as a human being. I didn't think I could hate him and his Simple Jack mindset even more, but now I do. What an ignorant, hateful response he gave OTL today. And yes, you can be hateful even if you're talking calmly, using politically-correct phrases and hiding behind antiquated religious scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReginaldWayne View Post
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    No I'm being serious. For example, arachnophobia is the fear of spiders. There is an intense fear of spiders. Where as "homophobia" is not liking someone bc they are gay, not because they are scared.
    But we are talking about people here. Most don't know if someone is gay or not and its really none of there business. Its the ignorant who insist on judging others that cause the problem. I just think of these people as bigots, regardless who they judge. Gays are not like spiders(especially poisonous ones).

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    While I don't agree with him doing it for A job. It is, however, easier to come out when you have enough money to not need a job. I respect him for doing it, but it will be a bigger step when a rookie doesn't need to worry about hiding it(baby steps).

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by kidthecat View Post
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    Baby-steps with a purpose.

    He was at best a one-week contract in April before this...
    You lost me, what purpose does coming out for a player that is at the end of his Career have other than bringing greater awareness to homosexuality in professional sports?

    IMHO...despite still wanting to play, he's still some 1 week contract type of guy. My guess is that he's done....even before he came out. I can only think that this would only hurt his already dwindling chances of him joining an NBA team, hence the purpose of him coming out....not for his ongoing NBA Career....but to bring greater awareness of homosexuals in professional sports.

    Should it matter that he came out? IMHO....it shouldn't.

    Does it matter when it comes to any public figure ( even if he's end of the bench guy that no one outside of die hard NBA Fans have heard of ) comes out like this in Professional Sports? To your earlier point....it shouldn't matter that some NBA Player that is mostly forgotten came out. But I think its important...no matter how insignificant a Player that You and I think he is...that he does make a statement like this since homosexuality is still viewed the way it is in society.

    As i said.....Baby Steps is what this is.
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  28. #95

    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Today on OTL, as part of a larger, wide-ranging discussion on today's news, I offered my personal opinion as it relates to Christianity, a point of view that I have expressed publicly before. I realize that some people disagree with my opinion and I accept and respect that. As has been the case in the past, my beliefs have not and will not impact my ability to report on the NBA. I believe Jason Collins displayed bravery with his announcement today and I have no objection to him or anyone else playing in the NBA.
    -Chris Broussard per twitter
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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    He didn't say that Collin's couldn't consider himself a Christian and be gay, he said that's what his personal opinions were
    Again, based on his belief about what God would want. No matter how you slice it, Broussard is drawing religious lines in the sand for other people based on the lines he has drawn for himself.

    Broussard doesn't have that right. Or, rather, he doesn't have the right to be immune from his opinions, regardless of how he came to those opinions.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    No objection towards Collins playing in the NBA? How generous.

  31. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
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    Again, based on his belief about what God would want. No matter how you slice it, Broussard is drawing religious lines in the sand for other people based on the lines he has drawn for himself.

    Broussard doesn't have that right. Or, rather, he doesn't have the right to be immune from his opinions, regardless of how he came to those opinions.
    I agree that he shouldn't be immune from his opinions and certainly no one has to agree with him.

    How is he drawing lines for other people? He is not stopping anyone from being homosexual. The only reason it was brought up in this venue is because the question was posed directly at him. Should he had lied about his convictions and beliefs? Would that of been more admirable?

    I guess I just don't understand why both sides just can't respect each other's opinions. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you hate them.

    Interesting discussion, nonetheless.
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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    I agree, very interesting.

    And I don't recall hate being involved in this discussion.

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    Default Re: Jason Collins "comes out"

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    You lost me, what purpose does coming out for a player that is at the end of his Career have other than bringing greater awareness to homosexuality in professional sports?

    IMHO...despite still wanting to play, he's still some 1 week contract type of guy. My guess is that he's done....even before he came out. I can only think that this would only hurt his already dwindling chances of him joining an NBA team, hence the purpose of him coming out....not for his ongoing NBA Career....but to bring greater awareness of homosexuals in professional sports.

    Should it matter that he came out? IMHO....it shouldn't.

    Does it matter when it comes to any public figure ( even if he's end of the bench guy that no one outside of die hard NBA Fans have heard of ) comes out like this in Professional Sports? To your earlier point....it shouldn't matter that some NBA Player that is mostly forgotten came out. But I think its important...no matter how insignificant a Player that You and I think he is...that he does make a statement like this since homosexuality is still viewed the way it is in society.

    As i said.....Baby Steps is what this is.
    First of all, your premise seems to be that he is "coming out" for the greater good of the plight of homosexuals everywhere. Don't give me "what purpose does coming out for a player..." I shouldn't even bother to list why someone would want to keep his/her professional career alive at any cost. That is how I see it, and nothing at this point in the story will change that.

    It is completely suspect why he chose this time, when supposed NFL sources said an NFL player would come out any day/week/month now. This idea has been hypothesized especially as of late. Jason Collins is an NBA afterthought. And has been. As was his assumedly heterosexual brother. I don't really know what else to say.

    The NBA has already dealt with racism. It will conquer homosexuality, too. It is the most liberal of all the professional sports, and I'm not saying that in an accusatory or demeaning manner.

    All I am doing is calling into question the motives of one Jason Collins. It's opportunism if I ever smelled it. Ties to Bill Clinton? Really? Why was Jarron so "caught off-guard?" Twins, lol.
    Last edited by kidthecat; 04-30-2013 at 02:00 AM.

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