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Thread: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

  1. #101

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by BearBugs View Post
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    This is a very good article to read if you are skeptical.
    Very good? Really? That opinion piece is so chock-full of blatant factual errors that I don't even know where to start. Notice how the author tries to tie several of his arguments to science without ever referencing any scientific study or fact. There's a reason for that. I suppose that I should give one example:

    No scientist was there to see the dinosaurs live through this supposed dinosaur age. In fact, there is no proof whatsoever that the world and its fossil layers are millions of years old. No scientist observed dinosaurs die. Scientists only find the bones in the here and now, and because many of them are evolutionists, they try to fit the story of the dinosaurs into their view.
    So... if I didn't see something happen, then it did not exist. Plus vast areas of scientific inquiry, such as paleontology, archaeology, geochemistry, geophysics, etc. all either do not exist, or better yet, there is some vast conspiracy among all scientists to collaborate and get to get their data to fit together nicely to fit with their strong anti-new-Earth agenda. Really? It's hard to get 3 ultra-competitive leading scientists working in the same field to agree on a place to go for dinner and to cordially last the night.

    There are many modern methods of dating animal, plant, and geological artifacts that have been refined over the decades or discovered anew in recent years. Sure, one method might suggest a fossil is 65.2 million years old and other may say it's 66.8 million years old. That difference of 1.6 million years seems enormous and invalidating to someone who insists (no matter what) that NOTHING is over 0.006 million years old, but the best methods seem to be converging over time.

    We can date things thousands of years old, tens of thousands of years old, hundreds of thousands of years old, millions of years old, tens of millions of years old, hundreds of millions of years old, and billions of years old. Dates for the moon rocks, for example, led scientists to the unexpected conclusion that the moon was likely shed off the pre-formed Earth by an impact, early in its history, since some surface rocks on both the Earth and the moon are amazingly similar in age and composition.

    Every sentence in that linked article that mentions, even indirectly, any principle of science is riddled with egregious logical and factual errors.

    Of course the author is entitled to believe every word of it, as are you. But the author is claiming scientific support when his arguments do not have any. They fail kindergarten science, actually.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 04-30-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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  3. #102
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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    My understanding was that the theory of the Earth being merely 5,000 years old was being taught by one particular sect of one certain denomination of Christianity. That is was just a minor group of people that held this belief.
    No, no, no, Geez. Billions of Christians throughout the world, who can't agree on much other than believing in Christ, ALL think dinosaurs are a made up fantasy. Billions upon billions of people, all of them, there isn't one single person in that billions of people, all believe the EXACT same thing.

    You're just being irrational here.

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  5. #103

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    The world uses about 90,000,000 barrels of oil per day (http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx).

    Oil is a hydrocarbon that is produced only from organic matter, the decayed remains of plants and animals that, under optimal conditions of temperature and pressure, is converted over tens of millions of years into crude oil. These conditions and the timescale required are very exacting. Not surprisingly, oil deposits are rare, since optimal conditions of temperature and pressure mush be maintained over those millions of years and be undisturbed by geological phenomena such as plate tectonics, volcanic activity, etc. The vastness of the world’s oil reserves (90 million barrels, every day!) suggests that life has thrived on Earth for a very, very long time.


    If you think that the Earth is thousands of years old, the only possible explanation for the existence of the gas that you put in your tank every week is that God created those deposits of oil, as they are, for our use. Now that’s a fine thought, but since we understand how it can form naturally, why deny the scientific evidence and rely on a supernatural explanation? We don’t fall immediately to the supernatural explanation in our day-to-day lives, so why in this case? If some guy cut you off in traffic this morning, was he driving like a jerk because he is a jerk, or did God just plant him there to teach you something?
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  7. #104
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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I'm not an atheist though. His quote(s) could be held against him no matter what he says really. Darwin was one of the greatest thinkers we have ever had.
    Interesting. May I ask what you do believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Hicks, I certainly can't speak for Team Science and generalizing anyone "scientific" into some sort of cynical dismissive group seems silly.
    I don't mean anyone. But there are plenty. You see them anywhere someone is trying to study things that are dismissed by the mainstream. It's silly to me because they tear into or tear down studies that result in anything but confirm their a priori beliefs on the matter. Could be psi, could be NDE studies, or generally anything that might go against the idea that we are just biological robots.

    I try to be objective and open minded, but I have a pretty good bullsht detector. It was beeping hard in this thread. Didn't you feel that too?
    More so in regards to a BS attitude than necessarily what he was trying to say with said attitude. But it's hard to be sure because I have yet to see much in the way of his facts or ideas. Thus far he's spent most of the time poopooing someone else's ideas.

  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks;
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    More so in regards to a BS attitude than necessarily what he was trying to say with said attitude. But it's hard to be sure because I have yet to see much in the way of his facts or ideas. Thus far he's spent most of the time poopooing someone else's ideas.
    .....which is about as BS as you can get.

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  9. #106

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Interesting. May I ask what you do believe?
    Sure man. I am constantly changing my perspective. I feel like my beliefs are completely different than they were 15 years ago and quite different than a year ago. Right now, I feel like this world and universe are so complex and beyond my comprehension that the only honest answer is, I don't know. I seriously doubt there is some skygod from the bronze age tossing folks in a pit of fire for not accepting a human sacrifice, but I do think there is more to reality than just the material world.

    There is just so much BS to wade through, a skeptical mind is crucial. There are so many people that will prey on people who are interested the metaphysical side of reality, if one isn't careful they may end up spending $200 a week trying to clear the karma from a past life. Or start believing they have a telepathic connection with extraterrestrials, or believe the earth is 6000 years old and possibly flat.

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  11. #107
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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Openness to the possibly of there being more to reality than the material world seems to be the line in the sand with a lot of people.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    There is just so much BS to wade through, a skeptical mind is crucial. There are so many people that will prey on people who are interested the metaphysical side of reality, if one isn't careful they may end up spending $200 a week trying to clear the karma from a past life. Or start believing they have a telepathic connection with extraterrestrials, or believe the earth is 6000 years old and possibly flat.
    As a Christian, that's pretty freaking insulting. Going from believing in Creationism, to telephathic connections with extraterrestrials. I think you can give your opinion, without ******** all over the people who disagree with you.

    I get your point, but come on. This Earth is flat stuff you're just throwing out there to try and lump them all together, when it's not even close to reality of the situation. I don't think you need to manufacture something to that degree, just to say you don't believe in a religious God.

  13. #109

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    What's more likely, the Earth is flat or that it's 6000 years old?

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    I can believe in god and also believe the entire history of earth itself can be explained scientifically and that Darwin wasn't a quack.


    The line in the sand to me is the arrogant belief that humans are created in god's image (and thus the closest thing in the universe to "god" themselves), and that the earth is somehow the center of the universe by virtue of being our home. It's when our need to feel superior surpasses our need to make sense.

    Not only is the earth not the center of the universe, it's not even the center of the solar system. It's a mathematical miracle, which sure you could take to mean it went according to a divine plan. But there's no reason to think that this planet is the only one housing intelligent life. We can barely see our own backyard for crying out loud. There could be ten thousand "earths" out there.

    RE: the extinction of dinosaurs. Why is this even an issue anymore? The K-Pg boundary was discovered 30 years ago. The only reason the Alvarez theory is still a theory is because nobody was around 66,000,000 years ago to record it happening. You'd have to have your head buried so far in denial that you'd be seeing shanghai right now.
    Last edited by Kstat; 04-30-2013 at 12:57 PM.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    What's more likely, the Earth is flat or that it's 6000 years old?
    That's not addressing what I even said. There has been ONE poster that has said something along those lines, yet your attributing those types of views to billions of people worldwide.

    How about you address people individually, with their beliefs, instead of trying to attach them to billions of others? I don't think that's too much to ask.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    You haven't said anything, other than you believe in god and you think god created the universe. Other than that, you've been looking to get offended rather than participating in the discussion.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Sorry, I figured we could be mature enough to share our beliefs without resorting to purposefully insulting the other side of the discussion. My mistake thinking that.

    KStat wins again.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    you've shared nothing. You've tip-toed around the topic as lightly as humanly possible.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    you've shared nothing. You've tip-toed around the topic as lightly as humanly possible.
    Yep. Why would I share my beliefs about Creationism, when Creationism gets lumped into things like the Earth being flat, and telephathic connections with extraterrestrials. If you'd like to have a mature discussion, I'm more than game.

    If you'd like to see who can mock the other better, then well, I'll continue sharing nothing.

    I cannot believe you're arguing against not taking one position and lumping it together with positions no one has stated. Other than it being a logical fallacy, strawman, it's just a dickish thing to do.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yep. Why would I share my beliefs about Creationism, when Creationism gets lumped into things like the Earth being flat, and telephathic connections with extraterrestrials. If you'd like to have a mature discussion, I'm more than game.

    If you'd like to see who can mock the other better, then well, I'll continue sharing nothing.

    I cannot believe you're arguing against not taking one position and lumping it together with positions no one has stated. Other than it being a logical fallacy, strawman, it's just a dickish thing to do.
    because it makes no sense for you to be here and refuse to partake in the discussion.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    I'm trying to take part here, but you'd rather argue about whether or not you can purposefully make up absurd allegations without support, than be an adult and actually continue the topic.

    If you're unable to discuss it without resorting to made up claims about the Earth being flat, and the like, just say so and I'll downgrade my participation even more to just ignoring the thread.

    I fully understand why these topics have been historically offlimits. Can't even request people to stop making strawmen, without getting **** for it.

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Anybody created anything yet?
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    All I think he was saying is that you have to be guarded against claims of the supernatural because some people get sucked into ridiculous things like believing the earth is flat or needing some kind of crystal to clear your karma or whatnot. I don't think he was meaning to imply that believing in Christianity was akin to believing in the earth being flat.

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  26. #120

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    Anybody created anything yet?
    There are things happening today that 100 years ago no one could've believed were possible. Just because we can't create "something from nothing" today, doesn't mean it's not possible. And that's assuming there was "nothing" to begin with. You don't know if there was nothing to begin with. Neither do I. Just because we don't KNOW doesn't mean we have to make the leap that there must be a creator.

    What is wrong with admitting we don't know? I don't know of any scientist claiming the big bang theory as fact (if they do, they're doing it wrong).
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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    You don't know if there was nothing to begin with. Neither do I. Just because we don't KNOW doesn't mean we have to make the leap that there must be a creator.
    Doesn't there have to be a starting point along the lines somewhere?

  28. #122

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Doesn't there have to be a starting point along the lines somewhere?
    Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the idea of a starting point/beginning point is a completely human invention, like time (days, months, years, etc). When trying to make sense of the universe, we attempt to apply human concepts to it. Which is understandable, that's all we have. But maybe that's the wrong way to approach it. Who knows? Maybe it has just always been there.

    You are free to believe what you like. I don't wish to impose my beliefs on you or belittle yours. I just take issue with the idea that because science can't explain the origin of the universe, there must be a creator. Well, who created the creator then? And who created them? You can't have something from nothing, right? It goes on and on.

    Like I said earlier in the thread, until some sort of time machine is invented and humans can go all the way back to the origin point to witness everything with their own eyes, everything on this subject will be speculation and conjecture. It's not as clear cut as anyone on either side of the argument claims it is.
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    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Maybe the universe has no beginning, but perhaps the material part of it does? And perhaps God is a part of the nonmaterial who created the material? Why can't science discover God?

  30. #124

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Maybe the universe has no beginning, but perhaps the material part of it does? And perhaps God is a part of the nonmaterial who created the material? Why can't science discover God?
    Sure, why not? All speculation, as always.

    As for why can't science discover God...how do you test for God? How do you discover God in the physical sense? It's all interpretation and everyone has their own. Some people see God in a blob that looks kinda like Jesus burned into a piece of toast. On the other end of the spectrum, you have skeptics like me who need undeniable proof.
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  31. #125

    Default Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    I'm Christian, so I view God as the creator of everything, when I studied the theory of evolution, maybe it was because I was born and raised a Christian so I was thinking it was all wrong from the get go, but it all sounded like theory to me, for example the theory of life being born because of chemicals/solutions/whatever they call them/ that were in the air COULD have allowed for life to be born, it all just sounded like hey this could have happened and its the only scientifically logical explanation so it must have happened, but I view God as the creator of Earth and life
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 04-30-2013 at 04:01 PM.

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