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Thread: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

  1. #26
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Didn't the Colts cut Dan-O and then have to go re-sign him later in the season?

    I don't think the Colts were tanking at all at first.... They were just a badly put together team with no backup plan for losing their star QB. Now at some point in the season I hope they did tank....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  2. #27
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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    The defense played with a lead when you don't have a lead well...
    That concept was such BS. A lot of things got exposed as BS that season and the idea that the defense was designed to play with a lead was one of them. Importantly, the team actually did have some leads and that too small, too soft, poorly schemed defense couldn't keep the other team from running over them (or through them) to maintain it. The problem was, unlike year's past, they didn't have Manning to orchestrate a score more times than not when the team needed one.



    They never did they also never had a Plan B apparently for this day.
    Bingo.

    And while Caldwell may be a good offensive coordinator/QB coach he's not much of a head coach. It was a perfect storm I think if Dungy were coach we wouldn't have gotten the #1 pick with Peyton out because he could've made adjustments Caldwell wouldn't.
    I don't know that Dungy was all that spectacular of a coach from a strategic POV. Inspirational, yes... but with that flawed team and his own reliance on a flawed defense I don't think he could've rallied the troops or found a workable plan B for the season either.

    I also don't think the rest of the team who have incentives and are playing for their careers basically would tank for some rookie that isn't a guarantee.

    Would I put it past Polian to do such a thing if he could get away with it? No
    Polian would've probably been happy to have a couple more runs with Peyton and then call it a career himself. ...although that is just a guess. I've never really read or heard Polian say.

    I will always say that for the team to have been THAT bad in the year that the SB was in Indianapolis was an inexcusable offense considering the team had an all-time great at QB on the roster and was always considered a contender. There should've already been a QB capable of holding down the fort in case of a short term emergency and we should've been watching the team that was assembled that season and bemoaning how it would've been one of Manning's best chances for the SB. A SB that was going to be played in Indy. A perfect storm if ever there was one.

    Instead, every flaw that most had pointed out for years came home to roost in spades.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  4. #28
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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    As I have said before, I wasn't watching the sport in the past but have watched some old games from the 00's. I keep reading about the flawed defense of the past years. Was it more personnel wise (certain inadequate players, short etc) or strategically? Or both?

    Whatever it is, must be refreshing to see the Colts changing direction this year with their moves on defense.

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Didn't the Colts cut Dan-O and then have to go re-sign him later in the season?

    I don't think the Colts were tanking at all at first.... They were just a badly put together team with no backup plan for losing their star QB. Now at some point in the season I hope they did tank....

    Yes, we re-signed Orlovsky on September 27 after Collins went down against the Steelers on September 25. Orlovsky didn't start a game until December 4 at New England. Had we been trying to win, then we would have started Orvlovsky several games prior because it was painfully obvious that Painter was absolutely dreadful.

    Like I said, I don't think the Colts were trying to tank at first. I think they honestly thought that Collins could come here and at least make the team respectable. After all, he was the QB on a 13-3 Titans team just three years prior. But he was obviously washed up by the time he got to the Colts, so they were left with Curtis Painter and Dan O. It soon became obvious that the team was crap and wasn't going to win, so they kept throwing Painter out there knowing full well that playing him would guarantee a loss, which would basically ensure that they would get Luck. Had they earnestly been wanting to win games, they would have started Dan O. about three weeks earlier.

    Continuously starting Painter was brilliant though because it set the team up perfectly for the next 13 or so years with Luck. So I guess we owe Polian some debt of gratitude for running such a pathetic show that season.

  6. #30

    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I don't know that Dungy was all that spectacular of a coach from a strategic POV. Inspirational, yes... but with that flawed team and his own reliance on a flawed defense I don't think he could've rallied the troops or found a workable plan B for the season either.
    Spectacular? No but compared to Caldwell probably for me I think Dungy would've adjusted because unlike Caldwell Dungy has coached in the NFL without Manning as a QB. It seemed like Caldwell was a placeholder at best to me.

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Spectacular? No but compared to Caldwell probably for me I think Dungy would've adjusted because unlike Caldwell Dungy has coached in the NFL without Manning as a QB. It seemed like Caldwell was a placeholder at best to me.
    That is a really good point.

    We should have never essentially let Tony Dungy appoint Caldwell to HC without the team conducting a legit coaching search by interviewing outside candidates. Thankfully Irsay seems to have learned his lesson. With Pagano, we did it the right way by interviewing outside candidates and hiring a guy who had been the coordinator for an elite defense in Baltimore. That's how you conduct a coaching search.

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  10. #32

    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Caldwell was really nice to tank for Luck. Even though it got him fired and he never got to coach him. Way to take one for the team! Same for Jeff Saturday and all those guys who got cut!

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Speaking of Caldwell, can you tell me why he always had that look of puzzlement on his face?

  12. #34

    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    Speaking of Caldwell, can you tell me why he always had that look of puzzlement on his face?
    Puzzlement would mean an expression was involved he had dead eyes.

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    As I have said before, I wasn't watching the sport in the past but have watched some old games from the 00's. I keep reading about the flawed defense of the past years. Was it more personnel wise (certain inadequate players, short etc) or strategically? Or both?

    Whatever it is, must be refreshing to see the Colts changing direction this year with their moves on defense.
    To me it was 100% strategic. I can't be bothered to go back and look at the numbers again (I've done this before) but during about a six year run the Colts were either 1st or 2nd every year in points per drive, but rank damn near dead last in drives per game. Our defense was near the bottom in run D almost every year, we forced very few turnovers, and the average drive time against us was always one of the worst.

    Essentially we had the most efficient offense in the NFL, but our defensive strategy was to take no risks and to allow time-eating drives in the hopes we wouldn't let the other team score a touchdown. IMO, if you have the most dynamic offense, then your defense should be risk taking, trying to increase the amount of possessions per game, not decrease them.
    Danger Zone

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    IMO, if you have the most dynamic offense, then your defense should be risk taking, trying to increase the amount of possessions per game, not decrease them.
    Thanks.

    Agree with what you say. We had the best offense and maybe we had the philosophy that "whatever you do, we will outscore you" but what we did against Chicago in the Super Bowl was the best tactic imo. Their defense was most of the time on the field and were really tired at some point. Granted that happened cause there was few fumbles and a couple of picks from their part but still their offense didn't see the field a lot.

  15. #37

    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    For the record, I think Polian handled himself poorly with the media and public; and throwing the perfect season was a terrible thing.

    But anyone who doesn't recognize him as one of the great team builders the league has ever seen must not be paying attention. 4 straight Super Bowls in Buffalo. An appearance in Carolina. A full decade plus of being one of the great teams in football and building one of the greatest offenses ever, two Super Bowls appearances in a highly competitive AFC. A few bounces, or if the Colts were in the NFC, and they would have had more.

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
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    For the record, I think Polian handled himself poorly with the media and public; and throwing the perfect season was a terrible thing.

    But anyone who doesn't recognize him as one of the great team builders the league has ever seen must not be paying attention. 4 straight Super Bowls in Buffalo. An appearance in Carolina. A full decade plus of being one of the great teams in football and building one of the greatest offenses ever, two Super Bowls appearances in a highly competitive AFC. A few bounces, or if the Colts were in the NFC, and they would have had more.

    The Panthers didn't make the Super Bowl with Polian. They made one NFC championship game with Polian in 1996, which was certainly impressive considering they were a second year franchise. But they didn't go to the Super Bowl until 2003, long after Polian left.

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    That's 99% of the population right there. Nothing new to flip flopping.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  19. #40

    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The Panthers didn't make the Super Bowl with Polian. They made one NFC championship game with Polian in 1996, which was certainly impressive considering they were a second year franchise. But they didn't go to the Super Bowl until 2003, long after Polian left.
    My bad. Other points still stand however.

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
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    For the record, I think Polian handled himself poorly with the media and public; and throwing the perfect season was a terrible thing.

    But anyone who doesn't recognize him as one of the great team builders the league has ever seen must not be paying attention. 4 straight Super Bowls in Buffalo. An appearance in Carolina. A full decade plus of being one of the great teams in football and building one of the greatest offenses ever, two Super Bowls appearances in a highly competitive AFC. A few bounces, or if the Colts were in the NFC, and they would have had more.
    Good points and true of course but I think people who criticize him for some poor choices of his with the Colts (especially the late years of his stay) do just that and don't neglect the fact he built a great team.

  21. #42

    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Polian's a scumbag. He said recently on an ESPN telecast that he was targeting and wanted to pick one of two QBs in the 1st round of his last draft (2011) that ended up being starters in the league. The idea was to get someone who would back up Peyton and presumably replace him down the line. But he said that since he was advised not to go with a QB (because we had Peyton), we went with another pick.

    Sure, Bill. Sure...

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    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Doddage View Post
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    Polian's a scumbag. He said recently on an ESPN telecast that he was targeting and wanted to pick one of two QBs in the 1st round of his last draft (2011) that ended up being starters in the league. The idea was to get someone who would back up Peyton and presumably replace him down the line. But he said that since he was advised not to go with a QB (because we had Peyton), we went with another pick.

    Sure, Bill. Sure...

    I heard him say that too on PTI. He said he'd "rather not say" who the quarterbacks were, but it's pretty easy to figure out who he's talking about when you go back and look at that draft. We had the 22nd pick and drafted Castonzo. Dalton was drafted at 35th and Kaepernick at 36. I assume those are the two he is referring to. Cincy and San Fran sure got good value with those guys.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_draft

    Now was Polian really serious about drafting those two guys, or is he bs'ing in hindsight to make himself look better? It's hard to say. We know that Polian has distorted the truth with stuff like this in the past to make himself look better. When Marvin Harrison was inducted into the Colts Ring of Honor two seasons ago, Polian said this:

    Polian, who was directing the Carolina Panthers when Harrison was available in the 1996 draft, loved what he saw in the Syracuse product. He knew then what he saw in a pre-draft workout.

    “I was praying that we would get a shot at him, but, of course, we did not,” said Polian. “He had the single best workout I had ever seen by a receiver – absolutely incredible, speed, flexibility, moves, explosion, dexterity, hands, just off the charts. We were blown away by it. I recall going back to the airport and Dom Anile, who was our personnel director here for many years, said to me, ‘Man, we are probably not going to see the likes of that for another five or 10 years.’ Well, he was wrong by five years. I haven’t seen the likes of him for 15 years. He’s a special, special guy.”


    http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/...edium=facebook

    A quick look at the 1996 draft tells us that Polian was full of crap with that statement. Polian's Carolina Panthers drafted 8th and selected the immortal Tim Biakabutuka. The Colts didn't get Harrison until the 19th pick. Polian could have drafted Harrison if he wanted to, but somehow he twisted it in his mind that he knew Harrison was going to be great from the beginning and wanted to draft him, even though that obviously wasn't the case.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NFL_draft
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 05-02-2013 at 08:24 PM.

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  24. #44

    Default Re: So Bill Polian can't believe a team would sit starters

    I agree that it is a little fishy, but when I saw that quote I was reminded about this report before the 2011 draft where the Colts had a private workout with Dalton. It generated some discussion at the time about if the Colts were really ready to draft Manning's successor when he likely was going to play another 3-5 years.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...k-andy-dalton/

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