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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

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Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

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Strange article about Lance....

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  • #16
    Re: Strange article about Lance....

    Imagine what O'B would have said if Lance was not Larry's boy. And the odds are that, at that point in time, Lance would have deserved it.

    Lance should thank his lucky stars that Clark Kellogg was named as his mentor, despite that not being mentioned in this article. I suspect that Clark has played a significant role in speeding up the maturation process for Lance.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Strange article about Lance....

      Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what the link between Ricky and Lance was.

      On a side note, Ricky was actually looking like a quality guy just looking for another shot until that last paragraph. I doubt he gets another chance. He was a high flyer, who probably doesn't simply fly as high anymore.

      I didn't really learn anything on Lance I didn't already know. Bird vouched for the kid, whereas most GM's likely would've given up on him. I also think had he gone to New York, he's probably out of basketball right now. Indiana has given him a tamer and lower key environment where he can mature as a both a player and a person. The support structure has been solid as noted.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Strange article about Lance....

        Jim O'Brien coached Stephenson when he broke into the league. "I'll pass," he simply replied when asked to be interviewed about Stephenson.
        And this would go down in history as the nicest thing JOB ever said about any player not named Murphy, Dunleavy or Posey.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Strange article about Lance....

          Originally posted by Derek2k3 View Post
          Agreed.

          Although in JOB's defense (ugh) Lance was a problem for him based on what we know. So, if he never experienced the "good" Lance, he wouldn't have anything nice to say. And it is better to simply pass than give an interview in which you'll be disparaging Lance the whole time.

          That's the best I can come up with.
          Of course he was a problem for JOB. He required hands-on, empathetic coaching. JOB's interpersonal methods run closer to "you suck if you are young, no matter what you do it won't be good enough, and go fetch the vet some ice for his aching 3pt elbow". Did he handle Roy or Josh or Tyler or Paul any better?



          I totally agree Sandman, if he wasn't with the Pacers and if the Pacers weren't in the position they were post-brawl era, then he might not have made it. They needed the mature guys, Bird knew he had to be hands-on, and they knew that they needed a talent gamble to get them over the top (maybe not "needed" but that it would be a huge help). They had every reason to watch him close and Bird specifically had already learned a lesson with Shawne Williams. It's been a perfect storm for Lance, including switching to player-supportive Vogel and then adding vet savvy Shaw to the mix.


          This is why I always argue with people just chasing talent or high draft picks or whatever, and then point to the Spurs. People act like it was as simple as "getting lucky" with Duncan. But Parker and Manu were very low picks and plenty of teams have stars on par with Duncan. CULTURE IS KEY. Teams, like companies, that dictate the right culture with the right game plan from the top down will always find success. They will cultivate talent that doesn't fit initially and hold players to standards. They will not sell their souls for pure talent and will have the courage to turn away from extreme talent that just doesn't fit.

          It's like saying Hawaii is just lucky to have so many great surfers born or living there. No, Hawaii has an environment conducive to great surfing. It has the waves, which brings the best, which creates a growth path for others to follow and then it just feeds on itself.


          By the way, this is why I've always said that I DO NOT WANT PLAYERS WHO CHOOSE TEAMS BY BEACH PROPERTY OR STAR OPPORTUNITIES. Fans crying that we can't compete with Miami for FAs aren't thinking about the type of FAs they are failing to get. Lebron finally won a title (after missing in year 1) but he's got a few more to go just to catch Duncan. Duncan once had the chance to do exactly what Lebron did and join Grant Hill in Orlando, or to go be the man in the much larger Chicago market. He chose to stay put in SAS and went on to win more titles.

          Give me a David West type FA. A guy that knows the kind of environment he wants from his "company" and isn't sweating the quality or volume of his in-season partying. You want guys who's #1, by far, focus is playing quality basketball. Not being "the man", not ring chasing in the sense of riding along with someone else. No, you want a guy that says "I want to be part of building that and I want to be around other guys who feel the same way, guys who share the load and the fame and play the sport at a high quality level".


          For most of us the best job we ever have probably won't be the one that paid the most, but it will be the one we took the most pride in doing. And to me that's what Pacers Basketball should mean.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Strange article about Lance....

            Lance Stephenson?" James asked incredulously. "You want a quote about Lance Stephenson? I'm not even going to give him the time."
            Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
            When Lebron is assigned to guard you, you know you have to be an important piece of the team's success. Hopefully, Vogel has some plans for that situation in out next matchup. No Lance = no fastbreaks and pressure on the defense in transition.
            Funny that Lebron acts like he's never heard of Lance and then less than a year later he's being assigned to shut him down. That alone speaks volumes to how rapidly Lance has improved.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Strange article about Lance....

              He's started every game since. "I don't ever want to come off the bench," Stephenson says. "I want to be known as a starting player. So, I've got to keep working. If I keep doing that, the sky's the limit."
              I thought this quote was interesting. Would we have had a problem with Lance if Danny would have come back and forced him to the bench?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Strange article about Lance....

                i guess i should stop being surprised. the Pacers haven't picked higher than 10th since the 1980s and yet they keep getting gems.

                still, Lance has been one of the most unexpected Pacers success stories to me. i never saw him becoming a starting caliber player.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Strange article about Lance....

                  Lance Stephenson has the potential to bring the Pacers championships someday. I didn't nickname him Baby J for no reason. I do like the nickname L-Train though. Fits the NYC character to a mold, and he plays like a freight train on the court literally.

                  Live up to the potential Lance...Live up to that potential...If he's ever as good as I think he can be someday very soon then he will be the draft steal of all time. I remember years back arguing with people on here about the value of second rounders...Then we drafted Lance Stephenson...Lance Stephenson is the most talented Pacer to ever put on an NBA uniform...Just live up to that potential Lance, I am pulling for you...

                  That steal the other night to win us the game and the way he moved with the ball afterwards reminded me of one player, and one player only...And that is Jordan...Lance will never be Jordan and no one will ever be but he has the potential to bring us championships if he lives up to his full potential, I promise you that.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Strange article about Lance....

                    Originally posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
                    I thought this quote was interesting. Would we have had a problem with Lance if Danny would have come back and forced him to the bench?
                    Because he said he doesn't want to come off the bench?? Really?

                    Would it make you feel better if he said he loves playing off the bench, and he feels he could have a quality career coming off the bench?

                    Stop taking the words of athletes the way the media wants to take them, and take them for what they are. Lance like every other player EVER doesn't want to come off the bench. Of course he doesn't.

                    This no **** moment is brought to you by mattie. You are hydrated enough my friends. Drink less.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Strange article about Lance....

                      Originally posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
                      I thought this quote was interesting. Would we have had a problem with Lance if Danny would have come back and forced him to the bench?
                      I don't know about that, but Vogle's quote in the article caught my attention.

                      From the article:

                      Vogel told Stephenson that when he was not at his best, neither are the Pacers. "That's when he realized how important he is to this team and that "he's not a fill-in for Danny Granger and keeping his seat warm," Vogel says. "He's a major factor at both ends of the ball in our success this year."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Strange article about Lance....

                        Originally posted by mattie View Post
                        Because he said he doesn't want to come off the bench?? Really?

                        Would it make you feel better if he said he loves playing off the bench, and he feels he could have a quality career coming off the bench?

                        Stop taking the words of athletes the way the media wants to take them, and take them for what they are. Lance like every other player EVER doesn't want to come off the bench. Of course he doesn't.

                        This no **** moment is brought to you by mattie. You are hydrated enough my friends. Drink less.
                        This. There is a HUGE difference between saying "I want to start" as a goal and saying "I want to start" as a demand.
                        BillS

                        A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                        Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Strange article about Lance....

                          Originally posted by BillS View Post
                          This. There is a HUGE difference between saying "I want to start" as a goal and saying "I want to start" as a demand.
                          Beyond this, worrying about Lance and Danny at this point is a big waste of time just in general. One of them is healthy, the other isn't at the moment. If Danny shows up 100% at camp you cross that bridge then and not a moment sooner and to be honest what an awesome problem to have.


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                          • #28
                            Re: Strange article about Lance....

                            We need to be very careful about how much money we want to throw at Lance. I know basically everybody is in his corner these days, and I enjoy his play too, but this was a nice wake-up call / reminder for me of who we're dealing with, too.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Strange article about Lance....

                              Originally posted by Sandman21 View Post
                              Jeezus, what an *******.
                              I think that's (literally) what he says to anyone who asks for comment about the Pacers in any way.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Strange article about Lance....

                                Originally posted by Sandman21 View Post
                                A-Hole ex-coach remark not withstanding, this article pretty much dictates just how lucky Lance was to be picked up by Indiana with a support structure for him. I honestly don't know that he'd still be in the league today if a Sacramento or a team with a toxic locker room had drafted him.
                                This seems to be a popular opinion. One that I too share. Let us hope Lance feels the same come pay day...
                                If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

                                @LetsTalkPacers

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