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Thread: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    I think Trader Joe is the one that mentioned how high DJ's 3P% for the season had gotten after such a terrible start. Frankly I didn't believe him and hadn't looked in awhile either.

    So I just pulled his monthly splits and of course he tore through JAN and FEB (when people started saying "he got better as a PG", code for "making shots"). He stabilized closer to his norm the last 2 months (37%) which is still pretty helpful, though a bit shy of "3P specialist". But no big deal because after all he's here as a pass-first play creator off the bench, not a spot up specialist.

    That's when I noticed that in some months he appeared to have been not just worse from 2 than from 3, but drastically worse. And on top of that it also seemed like at first glance that he was really only taking 3PAs.

    Sure enough, his ratio of 3PA to overall FGA jumped up to 75% for FEB and MAR, though to be fair it was running a bit over 60% for the first 3 months as well. Still, 3 out of every 4 shots DJ takes in recent months are from 3!? Doesn't have a lot of drive and dish or layup creator or even FT line pull-up jumper off the dribble in it.

    And in those last 2 months he shot UNDER 30% FROM TWO. Under 30. His high point this year was 41% from 2 in JAN. That doesn't include 3PAs but does include layups, breakaways, etc. Pretty awful as a low or middle mark, let alone a high point.

    On one hand then it's great he's only shooting the 3 because he kinda sucks from 2, but on the other it signals that he's not able to get himself to a quality 2PA look.

    Being a guy who can only spot up for 3 doesn't exactly help create assists for other players apart from ball rotation around the arc. I mean I would think a guy with handles that's in the middle of a 40%+ two months would have plenty of chances for drive by moves on guys closing out hard, yet the stats suggest it hasn't been happening (which matches my anecdotal view).


    He's not drawing FTAs either, though neither is Hill, and he and Hill are virtually tied at a "meh" 5 Ast/36 on the year. But Hill scores the 2PA better than the 3PA and drastically better than DJ. That and defense separate them by a fair margin.

    So ultimately to me DJ seems replaceable with a guy who is specifically a 3P% ace if his role is going to follow these numbers. Guys like Paul, Lance, OJ and Green can advance the ball as needed and if a guy is going to camp the arc I'd rather it be a shooting specialist with enough size to score the ball better inside the arc than at it, even if he takes most of his shots outside the arc.

    At this point you could basically swap OJ for DJ in the off-season without really missing something based on how that backup PG functions in the system this year.

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    Member Goyle's Avatar
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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Yep, it's why I resorted to asking for Blake Ahearn early in the season. DJ literally does nothing but shoot threes and he has a terrible feel for the moment. 30% seems high for 2, I can't recall him making ANYTHING below the 3pt line all season.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Because of DJ's size (height, weight, & strength) and lack of athletic ability (quickness and jumping ability) he is unable to get his shot off in the lane or draw fouls.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Because of DJ's size (height, weight, & strength) and lack of athletic ability (quickness and jumping ability) he is unable to get his shot off in the lane or draw fouls.
    Of all the positions on the team point guard is the weakest...sigh.......
    {o,o}
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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    So ultimately to me DJ seems replaceable with a guy who is specifically a 3P% ace if his role is going to follow these numbers. Guys like Paul, Lance, OJ and Green can advance the ball as needed and if a guy is going to camp the arc I'd rather it be a shooting specialist with enough size to score the ball better inside the arc than at it, even if he takes most of his shots outside the arc.

    At this point you could basically swap OJ for DJ in the off-season without really missing something based on how that backup PG functions in the system this year.
    Seriously, given how horrible a finisher that DJ is and that he doesn't really do anything but be a "wait for the ball to be passed to him" 3pt shooter....there is nothing on the floor that DJ does that cannot be replaced. I've ( and many here ) have been saying this for the longest time....I'd live with a Lance/OJ Guard rotation over anything that DJ provides.

    A Combo-Guard that can score, bring up the ball and capable of hitting the 3pt shot is what we need. DJ isn't that guy if you ask me.

    I'd even live with Lance and OJ bringing up the ball....but Vogel? Nope.....neither are PGs. We will live with the best backup PG that we have despite contributing very little beyond hitting the 3pt shot.
    Last edited by CableKC; 04-09-2013 at 07:53 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Of all the positions on the team, THE BACKUP point guard is the weakest...sigh.......
    Fixed.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    Yep, it's why I resorted to asking for Blake Ahearn early in the season. DJ literally does nothing but shoot threes and he has a terrible feel for the moment. 30% seems high for 2, I can't recall him making ANYTHING below the 3pt line all season.
    DJ is beyond horrible from anywhere below the 3pt line.

    http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.as...3&gp2=0&mins=0
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Hill is above average across all shooting ranges compared to other PGs, in some cases pretty well above average. Meanwhile DJ is way below on everything inside the arc including 14% on stuff from 10-15 feet!!! That's not getting stuffed at the rim, that's driving by guys on close outs and getting open off of PnR. He's just awful at it, and with Hill being so good it's tough for me to just brush it off as the system.

    Price is at 43.5 from the 10-15 range this year for WSH. AJ was 59% from that range for the Pacers last year. It ain't "the system".

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Because of DJ's size (height, weight, & strength) and lack of athletic ability (quickness and jumping ability) he is unable to get his shot off in the lane or draw fouls.
    Before this guy was a Pacer he was a very creative penetrator that could get around the rim, at least every time I watched him. Fiery competitor. Still can't believe this is the same guy, but at least his shot is improving.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Question in regards to what to do about the Backup PG spot next season.

    Given the way this offense is run ( whatever that is ) and the way the defense is run ( taking advantage of length at all positions ), is it better to have a PURE backup PG or a Combo-Guard that is more of a SG that can facilitate ball-movement ( in the same vain as GH )?

    It's more this Team's defense and offense better suits certain types of Players and I wonder if it's better to look for a "pass first" PG as opposed to a "scoring undersized SG that can hit the 3pt shot" that is capable of bringing up the ball and moving the ball around?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    billbradley
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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    If it's a cheap option, I would look at Devin Harris.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    If it's a cheap option, I would look at Devin Harris.
    I like him too, but we'd be paying him to sit on the bench given his past injury history.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    I like him too, but we'd be paying him to sit on the bench given his past injury history.
    I assume that he'd be playing 20-24 mpg at most. I'd hope that he could handle that as a backup.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  20. #14
    billbradley
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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    I like him too, but we'd be paying him to sit on the bench given his past injury history.
    56 games this season, but IDK how many he missed because of injury. Started all but 3 games the previous season.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    If Lance isn't moved to backup PG, all I want is to find a veteran PG who can play defense. Anything else is just a bonus.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If Lance isn't moved to backup PG, all I want is to find a veteran PG who can play defense. Anything else is just a bonus.
    I think going forward that Lance's future is at the two. Starting at the two.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    If Lance isn't moved to backup PG, all I want is to find a veteran PG who can play defense. Anything else is just a bonus.
    J Jack would be such an ideal fit to bring back, but cost and opportunity to sign him seems iffy I think. Maybe I'm misreading that possibility.

    I would rather have a vet on the backside of his career than a young pup just starting out. We've got plenty of youth still early in their careers that need development focus. Not just Lance but Paul and Roy still, and even George a bit. It's a very young core apart from West and another vet voice would have to help.



    And I won't deny that I was with BillBradley on thinking DJ would be great. He was a killer at times in CHA. He hasn't looked the same here for most of the year. I did think there was a bit of a spark in that CLE game that looked more like classic DJ. He went to the lane a bit more aggressively.

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    Default Re: DJ's odd 3P% and 2P% journey

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    J Jack would be such an ideal fit to bring back, but cost and opportunity to sign him seems iffy I think. Maybe I'm misreading that possibility.

    I would rather have a vet on the backside of his career than a young pup just starting out. We've got plenty of youth still early in their careers that need development focus. Not just Lance but Paul and Roy still, and even George a bit. It's a very young core apart from West and another vet voice would have to help.
    Can't agree any more.....what this Team needs is a strong veteran presense running the point in the 2nd unit....basically a stablizing presense that will make the right decisions and do what the 2nd unit is supposed to do.....hold the fort until the Starters can come back in. That is what JJ does best....he's solid on defense, is a great scorer and doesn't really make any real mistakes.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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