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Thread: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    I have to say that him thinking UCLA or Stanford didn't recruit him based on his race is just him being butt hurt. People like to find excuses. Considering that the majority of UCLA students are Asian, it would be in the universities best interest to find a highly talented Asian-American B-ball player. What Lin doesn't appreciate is that Schools like UCLA recruit all over the country. Not just in their own backyard. So he is miffed about UCLA and Stanford? So is every other ball player in California who didnt' get a full ride.
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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Lin was the best player on his high school team that won their division state title and went 32-1 and he didn't get a single scholarship offer. Guys who didn't even play high school basketball get scholarship offers. There's no doubt that were he black, or white, with his skills, body type and resume, he would have at gotten at least a few scholarship offers.

    I think it's also pretty clear that his race has helped him once he made a name in the NBA.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Ironic. I was convinced that Stanford's MBA program wouldn't accept me because I wasn't Asian. (/only partially green)
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  6. #29

    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    He was cut because he wasn't very good. 3 NBA GMs aren't THAT stupid. In my honest opinion, he's a very average player at best.


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    Don't forget, two of the three "not stupid" GMs that cut him had a bidding war for his services once he proved himself.

    Talent isn't a number 1-99 like it is in a video game. There have been a host of All-Stars that were chosen in the 2nd round or went undrafted. Usually there is some X-factor that raises doubts. A power forward who is 6-7. A PG who dominated in division II. A SG who put up big numbers in Europe. These X-factors cast doubt on players for reasons outside of their game tapes and stats.

    What was Jeremy Lin's X-factor?

    I don't think anyone sat around and said "I don't want no day-gum Asain on my here team!" That's silly. But I do wonder if they though "Lin just doesn't seem like an NBA/college player" in a way they couldn't put a finger on. Nothing malicious, just simple human pattern-based thinking.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsTalkPacers84 View Post
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    No, he said it has no bearing at all. Which is simply not true. He's the exception not the rule. Heck look at Olympic basketball as a perfect measuring stick. There's a pretty obvious talent drop from team USA and China.
    Because I work abroad in China, I'd like to raise a point. USA is better at basketball not because the African American population is more adapt to play, but organized basketball is still played much more and play a much more important role here in the United States. In Beijing, there's not much access to free or available in door or out court as in the US where you can just hop to a YMCA, and they honest parents definitely want their kids to focus more on academics rather than bouncing a ball in China.

    Lets not pretend when we are picking teams even in the most grass root level we don't prejudice on our picks, we pick the kids that seems to be better and most times they tend to be African Americans. I am not saying race is the only thing that derailed Jeremy Lins road to Stanford, however, I think it would be completely irresponsible for us to completely overlook the fact everyone have stereotypes tha they label to an ethnic group. It is just way the it works.

    Just IMHO

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsTalkPacers84 View Post
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    Right, because the sports world just happens to be dominated by African-Americans by sheer luck. C'mon Lin!
    This is the most biased post I have ever seen on this board. Which sports do you speak of? American basketball? Certain events at track and field? The sports world is a big world...It's not that whites in America aren't good at basketball (Larry Bird?), it's that generally they pursue other sports professionally like Kstat points out because there is a conception out there that whites are no good at basketball and blacks are far superior. For every person that says blacks are better athletes because of track and field and basketball, one could point out strong man competitions and sports like hockey that are dominated by mostly whites. Tell me a professional hockey player isn't a bad *** athlete, and I will laugh at you...

    Hell even pro football isn't as dominated by blacks as some people would think...The two whitest teams met in the Super Bowl a few years back, the Patriots and the Packers. Welker ripped the white receiver stereotype to shreds how many years in a row? Regardless when my Pacers step on the floor, they are only one color, and that is blue and gold. Same thing with the Colts, one color, and that is white and blue.

  11. #32

    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsTalkPacers84 View Post
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    No, he said it has no bearing at all. Which is simply not true. He's the exception not the rule. Heck look at Olympic basketball as a perfect measuring stick. There's a pretty obvious talent drop from team USA and China.
    2004 Argentina gold medal? Or do you think because a person comes from a Spanish speaking country then they aren't white? I've seen studies say that 97 percent of Argentina is white. Scola, Delfino, and Ginobli were all on that team and I would consider them all white...

  12. #33

    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Jeremy Lin didn't get a scholarship from a major basketball college. His explanation is racism. Does anyone else have a better one? I can imagine the explanation of "he wasn't good enough to go to this top school" or "his dream school just didn't want him." But ALL of them. (I've actually read before that he didn't get ANY scholarship offers. But I can't find an article for that, so I'll stick with the major basketball schools.) I honestly can't think of one.

    The kid was proactive in college recruitment. I can tell you right now when he played Uconn (the year after Price left, so Kemba Walker and Jerome Dyson were in the roster, although it was the year before Kemba broke out) He was very clearly the best guard (best player) on the floor, for either team. And I have to think the Uconn kids got the better basketball resources. So once again, anyone else got a better explanation?

    It's also likely his explanation because he experienced racism in high school while playing.

    People just don't like hearing that reality. But quite frankly, it's pretty obvious, IMO.

  13. #34
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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Jeremy Lin didn't get a scholarship from a major basketball college. His explanation is racism. Does anyone else have a better one? I can imagine the explanation of "he wasn't good enough to go to this top school" or "his dream school just didn't want him." But ALL of them. (I've actually read before that he didn't get ANY scholarship offers. But I can't find an article for that, so I'll stick with the major basketball schools.) I honestly can't think of one.

    The kid was proactive in college recruitment. I can tell you right now when he played Uconn (the year after Price left, so Kemba Walker and Jerome Dyson were in the roster, although it was the year before Kemba broke out) He was very clearly the best guard (best player) on the floor, for either team. And I have to think the Uconn kids got the better basketball resources. So once again, anyone else got a better explanation?

    It's also likely his explanation because he experienced racism in high school while playing.

    People just don't like hearing that reality. But quite frankly, it's pretty obvious, IMO.
    But is it racism or just ignorance? When I think of Racism it brings an undertone of hate, as though the UCLA and Stanford coaches had something against him cause he was Asian. Which that just doesn't jive with my understanding of Los Angeles and the West Coast.
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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    I only believe what he is saying if these coaches never bothered taking a look at him because of his race. If someone can hoop, people will notice. It may lead to some early snubs, but after they see you and you prove yourself (assuming he was really good in HS, Idk) then I don't believe race would be a factor. He could be right, I just don't think I really buy it. I can't imagine someone saying "This kid can ball, but his parents are Asian..."

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by wooolus View Post
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    Lets not pretend when we are picking teams even in the most grass root level we don't prejudice on our picks, we pick the kids that seems to be better and most times they tend to be African Americans. I am not saying race is the only thing that derailed Jeremy Lins road to Stanford, however, I think it would be completely irresponsible for us to completely overlook the fact everyone have stereotypes tha they label to an ethnic group. It is just way the it works.

    Just IMHO
    And while I believe it Could be race, I'm not too sure if I buy it because of this. When you pick people up that you don't know for a game, you at first will choose based on your on stereotypes more than likely. But after a game or so, it becomes obvious who can play and who can't. Stereotypes don't cloud vision after you see the proof.. Well maybe for some it does.. But a college coach? Maybe this is wishful thinking, but I'd imagine too much rides on your decision making to allow race to play a part, people want the best players.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    2004 Argentina gold medal? Or do you think because a person comes from a Spanish speaking country then they aren't white? I've seen studies say that 97 percent of Argentina is white. Scola, Delfino, and Ginobli were all on that team and I would consider them all white...
    No no no no. Argentinians are no more European than Mexicans. Most people who live in Central and South America are mixed. Some areas, like Peru, still have quite a few purely natives running around, but most are a mix with very few being purely European. Different regions have different mixtures, as West Mexico tends to be more Native than European, while the further east you go you start seeing more and more European genes mixed in. So while 97% of Argentinians are descendents of Europeans, 97% of Argentinians are probably also descendant of Natives. They are generally refereed to at Mestizo, which is where the name Mexico is derived from.

    There is also Mulattos which is in reference to the mixture of European and African genes which tend to be more common in Brazil, and the Caribbean.

  19. #38

    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    No no no no. Argentinians are no more European than Mexicans. Most people who live in Central and South America are mixed. Some areas, like Peru, still have quite a few purely natives running around, but most are a mix with very few being purely European. Different regions have different mixtures, as West Mexico tends to be more Native than European, while the further east you go you start seeing more and more European genes mixed in. So while 97% of Argentinians are descendents of Europeans, 97% of Argentinians are probably also descendant of Natives. They are generally refereed to at Mestizo, which is where the name Mexico is derived from.

    There is also Mulattos which is in reference to the mixture of European and African genes which tend to be more common in Brazil, and the Caribbean.
    The players he's talking about are Italian-Argetinian, along with Nocioni, Progioni and Oberto and a lot of other Argentinian players. I don't want to get into a huge argument about ethnicity but these guys are for the most part 100% Italian.

  20. #39

    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    But is it racism or just ignorance? When I think of Racism it brings an undertone of hate, as though the UCLA and Stanford coaches had something against him cause he was Asian. Which that just doesn't jive with my understanding of Los Angeles and the West Coast.
    I suppose you could go with "ignorance." But it's still ignorance based on race. "All Asians are good at math" is a racist statement, in the sociological definition. But I agree, that I don't think there was any hate involved, just prejudices and ignorance. (And I'd wager that Jeremy Lin didn't think there was any hate involved.)

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    The players he's talking about are Italian-Argetinian, along with Nocioni, Progioni and Oberto and a lot of other Argentinian players. I don't want to get into a huge argument about ethnicity but these guys are for the most part 100% Italian.
    I wasn't trying to make a statement about any singular person, just a general statement of the demographics of the region.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I suppose you could go with "ignorance." But it's still ignorance based on race. "All Asians are good at math" is a racist statement, in the sociological definition. But I agree, that I don't think there was any hate involved, just prejudices and ignorance. (And I'd wager that Jeremy Lin didn't think there was any hate involved.)
    Unless he can show how there was racism involved, I think it is far more likely coaches just didn't think he had what it took to make it at a big school. They may have been wrong, but I highly doubt it had anything to do with race. Without evidence of stereotyping or racism it is most likely just a concoction of his mind.

  23. #42

    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Unless he can show how there was racism involved, I think it is far more likely coaches just didn't think he had what it took to make it at a big school. They may have been wrong, but I highly doubt it had anything to do with race. Without evidence of stereotyping or racism it is most likely just a concoction of his mind.
    If that's what they thought, then they should all be fired. Because clearly, they aren't too good at their jobs.

    I mean seriously, how many NBA players can say that no big basketball school (and I'd imagine, "big basketball school, is any basketball school that regularly makes the tournament..so that's probably about 40 schools) didn't offer a scholarship. I don't know the answer to that, but my guess would be only one. Nevermind a legitimate NBA starter, who clearly has a lot of talent. In fact, I wonder how good he'd be..if a better basketball school had recruited him.

    edit: Here's the article.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/sp...oked.html?_r=0

    "No division one program offered Lin a scholarship."

    That wasn't about his talent level. I actually even have a hard time believing it was about race..because I just can't imagine that ALL of the coaches were so blindsided by it. But I just don't know of another explanation. It's crazy to me.
    Last edited by Sookie; 04-08-2013 at 01:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    If that's what they thought, then they should all be fired. Because clearly, they aren't too good at their jobs.
    If coaches were fired because they got one player's potential wrong, there wouldn't be any coaches left to employ.

    Didn't see Kenneth Faried turning into a rebound machine? Fired.
    Didn't see Damian Lillard as the NBA RotY? Fired.

    It's pretty hard to judge a 17-18yr old player and then try and accurately project where he ends up. The fact that no one saw the potential in him, tells me more about Lin than it does the people who failed to see it. He wasn't cut from multiple NBA teams because he's asian. It says a lot about his work ethic and basketball IQ to overcome some of the athletic questions he faced/faces.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    If that's what they thought, then they should all be fired. Because clearly, they aren't too good at their jobs.

    I mean seriously, how many NBA players can say that no big basketball school (and I'd imagine, "big basketball school, is any basketball school that regularly makes the tournament..so that's probably about 40 schools) didn't offer a scholarship. I don't know the answer to that, but my guess would be only one.
    He didn't exactly light the world on fire at Harvard either. His freshman year in 18 minutes he average 5ppg on 41.5% shooting, and .96 Ast/TO. That doesn't scream of someone who big schools are going to be interested in. It seems more like a player that still needed a lot of development. It really looks more like a kid who thought he was better than he really was, and needed a wake up call.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    He didn't exactly light the world on fire at Harvard either. His freshman year in 18 minutes he average 5ppg on 41.5% shooting, and .96 Ast/TO. That doesn't scream of someone who big schools are going to be interested in. It seems more like a player that still needed a lot of development. It really looks more like a kid who thought he was better than he really was, and needed a wake up call.
    Seems like he might have been right about how good he is.

    Lin clearly has a lot of talent. I would argue he likely had a lot of talent as a high school kid.

    His biggest problem as a freshman was strength, which I'm sure is not unusual for freshman..and once again, something college coaches should have spotted.

    College coaches obviously make mistakes. But all of them? It's just crazy. And he's proven there's a different explanation than basketball talent.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Seems like he might have been right about how good he is.

    Lin clearly has a lot of talent. I would argue he likely had a lot of talent as a high school kid.

    His biggest problem as a freshman was strength, which I'm sure is not unusual for freshman..and once again, something college coaches should have spotted.

    College coaches obviously make mistakes. But all of them? It's just crazy. And he's proven there's a different explanation than basketball talent.
    He might have been right about having the potential to be good, but major conference schools aren't distributing scholarships to players whose development past a bench player won't hit until they leave school.

    The league has had lots of players who developed as walk-ons or coming from schools without full scholarships. Did they end up as good as Lin? I don't know, because he hasn't proved to me to be much more that someone who is capable of playing in the NBA and had a streak of serendipity in a big market.

    It would be foolish to say that NO racial bias could possibly be involved, because that denies the reality of life nowadays. However, it is probably more likely to say that his numbers really weren't so superior as to say that race could be the only possible reason.
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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Seems like he might have been right about how good he is.

    Lin clearly has a lot of talent. I would argue he likely had a lot of talent as a high school kid.

    His biggest problem as a freshman was strength, which I'm sure is not unusual for freshman..and once again, something college coaches should have spotted.

    College coaches obviously make mistakes. But all of them? It's just crazy. And he's proven there's a different explanation than basketball talent.
    Hindsight might prove him to be right about his potential, but that doesn't mean his potential was obvious coming out of high school and his first season in college kind of shows that. When I was younger, like middle school, there was a guy at my school that absolutely dominated all the competition, but while schools did come to watch him the best he got was Webber St. If we go back a little further there was another guy who was a pretty good ball player, never saw him play in high school though. He didn't get any scholarships, walked on at Purdue, and earned a full scholarship and was a starter for the next 3 seasons.

    Sometimes everyone just misses. Just cause you are great in high school doesn't mean coaches are going to think you can make it at college, and sometimes everyone completely overlooks you. While I am sure there are racist coaches at the college level, we are talking about a mass conspiracy of 100's of coaches not paying attention cause he is Asian. Sorry, I can't believe that. No one gave him a scholarship because no one believed he was worth it not because of his race, but because of his skills and/or physical ability. He proved them wrong, good for him, but don't try to tell me he had to prove them wrong because of racism.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    This is the most biased post I have ever seen on this board. Which sports do you speak of? American basketball? Certain events at track and field? The sports world is a big world...It's not that whites in America aren't good at basketball (Larry Bird?), it's that generally they pursue other sports professionally like Kstat points out because there is a conception out there that whites are no good at basketball and blacks are far superior. For every person that says blacks are better athletes because of track and field and basketball, one could point out strong man competitions and sports like hockey that are dominated by mostly whites. Tell me a professional hockey player isn't a bad *** athlete, and I will laugh at you...

    Hell even pro football isn't as dominated by blacks as some people would think...The two whitest teams met in the Super Bowl a few years back, the Patriots and the Packers. Welker ripped the white receiver stereotype to shreds how many years in a row? Regardless when my Pacers step on the floor, they are only one color, and that is blue and gold. Same thing with the Colts, one color, and that is white and blue.
    Blacks don't care about hockey, baseball, strong man competitions, swimming, golf, polo and a lot of other sports. But if blacks cared about those things they'd probably dominate those sports too. If you'd find it funny that someone says hockey players aren't bad *** athletes don't mind me laughing at you by trying to insinuate football isn't dominated by blacks.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Blacks don't care about hockey, baseball, strong man competitions, swimming, golf, polo and a lot of other sports. But if blacks cared about those things they'd probably dominate those sports too.
    I am willing to bet if a study was done you would find that in the USA economic situation plays a bigger role than skin color.

    Also blacks don't dominate soccer, and there are 100's of millions of blacks world wide who love soccer.

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    Default Re: Jeremy Lin talks about how race led colleges, NBA to snub him on 60 Minutes

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I am willing to bet if a study was done you would find that in the USA economic situation plays a bigger role than skin color.

    Also blacks don't dominate soccer, and there are 100's of millions of blacks world wide who love soccer.
    Third world nations don't have the same resources and opportunities as Europe/America. I bet if they could eat the same diet and have the same resources the soccer gap would close greatly.

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