View Poll Results: Is the NBA rigged?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Is the NBA rigged???

  1. #101

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    No.

    Cinderella situations basically happen in sports with single-game, single-elimination playoffs. NCAA basketball. NFL football. World Cup soccer.

    You don't see this in the NBA (or MLB or NHL) because teams have to win 4 games out of 7 against their opponent. It's much easier for an underdog to get hot for one game when their opponent has a bad game, but not in a series where the other team can make adjustments etc.

    Even then, there are occasional upsets. 8th-seeded Warriors took out the Mavs a few years ago when Dallas had the MVP. 8th-seeded Knicks made it all the way to the Finals one year (98?). Heck you could argue that the Pacers went on a "Cinderella run" of sorts in 1994. So it does happen.
    You don't see it happen in the NHL or MLB?! I don't follow hockey, but I always thought the Stanley Cup playoffs were extremely unpredictable. In baseball, any team can get hot and win it all. Since the MLB added a wildcard in 94, 10 wildcard teams have made it to the finals, and five have one the whole thing. In the NBA, I'm pretty sure the Rockets are the only team lower than a 3 seed to win the title under the current nba playoff format. In fact, along with the Knicks of the lockout season, I don't think a team seeded lower than 3 has even made it to the finals in that time frame.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Because anyone who believes Kobe Bryant at age 18 would rather not play in the nba and make millions, rather than play for a team other than the lakers, is fooling themselves.
    The fact is, he didn't want to play for the Hornets though. You are going to tell me Bryant didn't understand the benefits of forcing his way to the Lakers? That's where he wanted to go.
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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  4. #103
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    The fact is, he didn't want to play for the Hornets though. You are going to tell me Bryant didn't understand the benefits of forcing his way to the Lakers? That's where he wanted to go.
    And I'm sure Kobe's agent had nothing to say except, "kobe, you make the decision that's best for you."

  5. #104

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Sean Miller?
    Officials were offered a payment to give Arizona Wildcats head coach Sean Miller a technical foul. Many things can be said about this, but the issue of it affecting the actual game being played on the court...

    In order for a coach to get a tech, he needs to be pretty upset (in most cases). In order for him to get pretty upset, multiple bad calls need to be whistled agaisnt his team. That definitely influences a game one way or another.

    Money is a huge driving force in society. If it happens in the NCAA, we can't kid ourselves and say it's without a doubt not happening in the NBA. Much like it's probably not only an isolated incident in the Pac-12.

    It happens. We still watch it. Oh well.

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    The fact is, he didn't want to play for the Hornets though. You are going to tell me Bryant didn't understand the benefits of forcing his way to the Lakers? That's where he wanted to go.
    I dont want to play for the hornets either. If they offered me a few million dollars, I think I could find it in me to put on the teal...

    Bryant had no way of "forcing" his way to the lakers. That's make believe. Most lottery picks don't want to play where they wind up. The hornets simply didn't think he was that good.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    The fact is, he didn't want to play for the Hornets though. You are going to tell me Bryant didn't understand the benefits of forcing his way to the Lakers? That's where he wanted to go.
    John Calipari wanted to draft Kobe but was told that Kobe wanted to play in LA and would make that happen. I'll post the link in a second.

    EDIT:Then the Lakers stepped in and requested a workout. L.A. was picking 24th, but Tellem was interested – better franchise, bigger market, more Adidas flying off the shelves. The Lakers set it up at the old Fabulous Forum in Inglewood, Kobe matching up with Dontae Jones, a big, physical, 6-foot-8 senior who had just led Mississippi State to the Final Four. It was no contest; Kobe destroyed Jones from the word “go.”

    “I remember [Lakers general manager] Jerry West coming down from the stands after just a little while and saying, ‘Shut down the workout,’ ” Vaccaro said. “He didn’t need to see any more. That was it. Game over.”

    There was no way to get Bryant to drop all the way to the Lakers, so West began working potential trades. If Kobe could get to Charlotte at 13, he said, the Lakers could trade Vlade Divac for the young phenom. Team Bryant wanted it to happen.

    Only Calipari still was enthralled. Tellem spun a 180 and now began claiming Bryant wouldn’t show up in Jersey, began saying they’d send the kid to play pro ball in Italy, where he’d spent much of his youth. Everyone now admits it was an idle threat.

    “Arn [wanted the Nets to draft him] until he knew he could get him to the Lakers,” Calipari said. “Then he was against it. Arn was all over me, and then all of a sudden [I] get the call the day before the draft.”
    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...ecision_032411
    Last edited by Since86; 04-05-2013 at 04:45 PM.

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    John Calipari wanted to draft Kobe but was told that Kobe wanted to play in LA and would make that happen. I'll post the link in a second.
    Yes...that's not at all self-serving in hindsight...

    Hey, I take no blame for us drafting Kerry Kittles over Kobe Bryant- I knew Bryant was a franchise-changing superstar, but he just didn't want to be a New Jersey Net, and we just had to let another team draft him. What can I say, once he said he'd rather not play in New Jersey, my hands were tied!
    Last edited by Kstat; 04-05-2013 at 04:48 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    And I'm sure Kobe's agent had nothing to say except, "kobe, you make the decision that's best for you."
    As we all know, GMs do whatever agents tell them.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  10. #109
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    As we all know, GMs do whatever agents tell them.
    I was incorrect, it seems Kobe didn't even have an agent, which still made him NCAA eligible. So it seemed to be trade me to LA or I'm playing college ball. Of course, this also coming from a conspiracy theorist.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Yes...that's not at all self-serving in hindsight...
    Or it could actually be the truth.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Or it could actually be the truth.
    ...do you think if LeBron said he wanted to be a Laker in 2003, that the first 23 teams would have passed on him?

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    As we all know, GMs do whatever agents tell them.
    At one point they did, which is why S&Ts are more restrictive.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    I do not think the NBA tells officials to make sure this team or that team wins, ever. Maybe individual refs do their best to make sure a team wins for the own personal gain, but not because of the league. What I do think, and what should be obvious to anyone who doesn't just blindly trust the NBA, is that different players get treated differently by refs depending on many factors, most of all their marketability. That is where the manipulation comes into play. It isn't the team, but the players.

    The reason some teams seem to get players while others don't has more to do with the salary cap structure than because the NBA purposefully rigs it for certain teams to get certain players.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    I was incorrect, it seems Kobe didn't even have an agent, which still made him NCAA eligible. So it seemed to be trade me to LA or I'm playing college ball. Of course, this also coming from a conspiracy theorist.
    ...as well as someone that has no clue of what the rules are.

    There is a deadline to pull out of the draft, even without an agent. You can't attend the draft and then decide you want to go back into the draft next season.

    He could have refused to play, and then he would be broke and the Hornets would have held his rights for the rest of eternity.

  17. #115

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Yes...that's not at all self-serving in hindsight...

    Hey, I take no blame for us drafting Kerry Kittles over Kobe Bryant- I knew Bryant was a franchise-changing superstar, but he just didn't want to be a New Jersey Net, and we just had to let another team draft him. What can I say, once he said he'd rather not play in New Jersey, my hands were tied!
    I guess you are a conspiracy theorist too then?
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    I guess you are a conspiracy theorist too then?
    Yes. John Calapari making a completely self-serving an totally unverifiable statement makes me a conspiracy theorist.

    Do you know what a conspiracy is? What is the conspiracy in that scenario?

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I've pointed that out myself. Jerry west was the only GM that thought highly enough of Kobe to trade for him on draft day. And he got him 13th.

    Kobe wasn't seen by everyone as a can't-miss superstar. Only Jerry west saw that in him. I guess that was rigged, too.
    No. No. No no no no no.

    Why do people keep rewriting history about this?

    Charlotte was the only team willing to TAKE A RISK THAT ONE OF THE MARKETS KOBE WAS WILLING TO PLAY FOR WOULD TRADE FOR HIM.

    Quite aside from any discussion of "rigging", Kobe is a HORRIBLE example to use for ANYONE about taking a risk in the draft, because the question was whether he would carry out his threat to sit out rather than play for a non-major-market team. There could be arguments made about whether he would have done so, or whether it would have done him any good, or whatever, but the complexities of the Kobe situation do NOT lend it to be used in any sort of "see, anyone could have drafted him" discussion.

    As for Larry, how many teams other than Boston could afford to use a draft pick on a player they would be waiting at least a year to get? Again, aside from any discussion of "rigging", the Pacers have said (and said in that very year) that they could not afford to go a year without a young player. Once more, not a good example because there were more complexities than the ones on the surface.

    In both cases, it was a case of "them that has gets". Some people might see it as unfair, I see it as just the way things are.
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  21. #118
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Oh, just the draft? You mean, the thing that's more important than everything else combined?

    I just named you the five winningest centerpieces behind the two greatest teams you think won so many championships behind rigged circumstances (six if you want to include Mikan).

    All five were draft picks. Only one of them (Magic) was the #1 overall pick. Guess what that means? Other teams had the opportunity to acquire those players, and passed on them.

    Five teams passed on Larry Bird in 1978. Guess who one of those teams was....the PACERS!

    Twelve teams passed on Kobe Bryant in 1996. Guess who was one of those 12....the PACERS! Sensing a theme here?

    The Indiana Pacers could have had Bird. They could have had Jordan. They could have had Kobe freaking Byrant. You cant bury that away in denial.

    Want to know another secret? Russell, Hondo and Bird were acquired by the SAME GM. Same with Magic and Kobe.

    It took the Celtics over 20 years to get back to the finals without Red Auerbach. They didn't even make the playoffs half of those years.

    Did Auerbach take the "rigging" with him when he left?
    I agree with your overall points Kstat but I will add that in the modern era, free agency is quite a bit more important than you are giving credit for. Draft is definitely the most important factor, but let's look at the major contributors to championship teams going back to 2000:

    2012 Heat - Wade (drafted), Lebron (FA), Bosh (FA)
    2011 Mavs - Dirk (trade); Chandler (trade), Terry (trade), Kidd (trade)
    2010 Lakers - Kobe (draft), MWP (FA?), Gasol (trade), Odom (trade), Fisher (FA), Bynum (draft)
    2009 Lakers - Kobe (draft), Gasol (trade), Odom (trade), Fisher (FA), Bynum (draft)
    2008 Celtics - Pierce (draft), Garnett (trade), Rondo (draft), Allen (trade)
    2007 Spurs - Duncan (draft), Ginobili (draft or FA? can't remember), Parker (draft)
    2006 Heat - Wade (draft), Shaq (trade), Payton (FA?), Mourning (FA?)
    2005 Spurs - Duncan (draft), Ginobili (draft or FA? can't remember), Parker (draft)
    2004 Pistons - R. Wallace (trade?), B. Wallace (trade), Prince (draft), Billups (FA), Hamilton (trade)
    2003 Spurs - Duncan (draft), Robinson (draft), S. Jackson (FA?), Kerr (trade), Parker (draft)
    2002 Lakers - Kobe (draft), Shaq (FA), Fisher (draft), Horry (trade)
    2001 Lakers - Kobe (draft), Shaq (FA), Fisher (draft), Horry (trade)
    2000 Lakers - Kobe (draft), Shaq (FA), Fisher (draft), Horry (trade)

    Kobe, Duncan and Wade were drafted and became Finals MVPs. Most of the rest acquired by trade or free agency.

    And clearly some franchises have an advantage getting free agents and top players often have a lot of say in where they get traded to. Doesn't make it a conspiracy obviously, but it's certainly a factor. Quality of the front office matter a LOT but also things like how desirable the market is for players, how much $ the team can spend (size of market), etc. are factors.

    Let's not pretend that every franchise/market has an exact equal fair shake at a championship.

    EDIT: I'm sure there are a few errors in my list, it's not scientific, but I think the overall point stands

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  23. #119
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...as well as someone that has no clue of what the rules are.

    There is a deadline to pull out of the draft, even without an agent. You can't attend the draft and then decide you want to go back into the draft next season.

    He could have refused to play, and then he would be broke and the Hornets would have held his rights for the rest of eternity.
    Like I said man, you blindly follow while I only watch the Pacers (and the team they are playing ). There is a reason I don't post on other teams message boards... I could care less about the NBA. It's 100% true there is a bias in the NBA towards superstars and large-market teams. It would be irresponsible of the NBA not do this for monetary reasons. I call this a form of rigging, even if that is too strong of a word for some.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    As for Larry, how many teams other than Boston could afford to use a draft pick on a player they would be waiting at least a year to get? Again, aside from any discussion of "rigging", the Pacers have said (and said in that very year) that they could not afford to go a year without a young player. Once more, not a good example because there were more complexities than the ones on the surface.
    Yes, the Pacers would have folded without that one year from Rick Robey in 1979....

    ...please tell me that's not really the excuse they've been selling for the last 35 years...

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...do you think if LeBron said he wanted to be a Laker in 2003, that the first 23 teams would have passed on him?
    The answer is irrelevent.

    If I said yes, it doesn't mean Kobe did. If I say no, it doesn't mean Kobe didn't. Each circumstance is independent of themselves. I know players dictate where they want to get traded. I know NFL players dictate where they want to be drafted. I don't think it's a stretch to think players have some control over it as well.

  26. #122

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Yes. John Calapari making a completely self-serving an totally unverifiable statement makes me a conspiracy theorist.

    Do you know what a conspiracy is? What is the conspiracy in that scenario?
    You are accusing Calapari of lying to save face for not drafting Bryant... when a lot of evidence points to Bryant wanting to play for a big name, big market team. It's not a conspiracy in the general definition, but it encompasses the same principles. What makes your statement verifiable?
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    It's extremely convenient and self-serving for Calapari (who still would gladly jump back into the NBA someday) to say "It wasn't my fault my last NBA job was a dismal failure. I was forced to pass on Kobe."

    Sure you can't prove that he's lying, but you can't prove he's telling the truth, either. All you can look at is his long track record of honesty, integrity and dignity to determine that there's no way he would ever lie to cover his own ***....

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimePacerFan View Post
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    You don't see it happen in the NHL or MLB?!
    Not to the extent that it happens in the NCAA or in the NFL, no.

    There are teams that make runs in the playoffs in those leagues but at least in MLB there are only a few teams who really have a shot at making the playoffs in the first place in any given year due to historical lack of a hard salary cap. Also there is one less round so you are starting off with the top 8 teams in the league in the first place. MLB in general has some of the worst parity issues in pro sports.

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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Yes, the Pacers would have folded without that one year from Rick Robey in 1979....

    ...please tell me that's not really the excuse they've been selling for the last 35 years...
    I'm really trying to figure out how to reply to this, because I remember exactly how strapped for young players the Pacers were, mostly due to financial issues. One of the hardest situations was that there was no rookie scale back then, and Larry was simply going to command a lot more money than the Pacers could afford. Committing to that much money a year down the road when they had no idea what was going to be done to raise that much money at the time was not going to be possible.

    But, yeah. No reasons, only excuses. Success or stupid, that's the NBA.
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