View Poll Results: Is the NBA rigged?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Is the NBA rigged???

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    You do realize the pacers can't play by themselves...another nba team is on the floor with them. You cannot say "I ignore all the other teams" when the pacers can't play without another team on the floor.

    Out of curiosity, do you think the nba conspired to force the pacers to trade their 1984 draft pick for Tom Owens?
    Seriously? Are you so confident in your argument you have to pick at my use of grammar? You completely misquoted me for a second time. I said PACERS GAMES! Since you cannot comprehend my words, Pacers games involve 2 teams, both of which I watch.

    As for the second part, I was born in 1984, and have little background or knowledge of this.

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    [QUOTE=HickeyS2000;1617634

    As for the second part, I was born in 1984, and have little background or knowledge of this.[/QUOTE]

    Of course not.

    You're accusing the nba of having a rigged system, as evidenced by too few teams (one of them chicago) having too many titles, and you have no idea the pacers gave away a chance to draft Michael Jordan.

    ...or do you think the pacers couldn't have won a championship with Michael Jordan?
    Last edited by Kstat; 04-05-2013 at 02:48 PM.

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    I think every test I ever took might have been rigged too. I missed some questions on those tests similar to calls missed in these games, clearly its not just the NBA thats rigged, probably the SATs as well.

    Basically my point is missed calls aren't rigged games. Also, I don't think you rig games by bringing attention to yourself by making controversial calls in the 3rd quarter. It almost always seems like sour grapes or whining to me. Get better, play better, too any excuses in sports.

  6. #29
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    Please note Cuban does not believe the NBA is rigged (I just agreed with Kstat. I need to shower).

    Does he think there are terrible mistakes and biases that are unnacceptable and should not be biased? Sure, and I think he is right to speak up.
    To me, a bias towards certain individuals or teams is a form of rigging.

  7. #30
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    I don't think it's rigged, but f#ck me, that was an AWFUL call in that Lakers Nuggets game where they called the foul on Faried. Wow.
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  8. #31
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Of course not.

    You're accusing the nba of having a rigged system, as evidenced by too few teams (one of them chicago) having too many titles, and you have no idea the pacers gave away a chance to draft Michael Jordan.
    If you misconstrue my words one more time you are going on ignore. The words I used were "little background," not "no idea" as you think I said. I am 100% aware of the fact the Pacers gave away a chance at drafting Jordan. And the evidence I was using had nothing to do with Chicago, it had everything to do with Boston and LA. Please take my words for what I am saying, not for what you want me to have said.

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  10. #32
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    As a league, no, the NBA is not rigged.

    Certain games, on the other hand, I think have been rigged (Game 6 WCF 2002 for example).
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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Of course not.

    You're accusing the nba of having a rigged system, as evidenced by too few teams (one of them chicago) having too many titles, and you have no idea the pacers gave away a chance to draft Michael Jordan.

    ...or do you think the pacers couldn't have won a championship with Michael Jordan?

    I prefer to assume they would have done the same as Portland and drafted Bowie over Jordan. Hey, we took another Kentucky center right before Bird was drafted (yes, I know the whole story) so why not repeat that great strategy?!?
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  13. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    If you misconstrue my words one more time you are going on ignore. The words I used were "little background," not "no idea" as you think I said. I am 100% aware of the fact the Pacers gave away a chance at drafting Jordan. And the evidence I was using had nothing to do with Chicago, it had everything to do with Boston and LA. Please take my words for what I am saying, not for what you want me to have said.
    Oh, only Boston and LA?


    ...so you're saying if the pacers had 6 nba championships, you'd have the same complaint about the lakers and celtics having too many?

    By the way, bird, hondo, and Russell accounted for 16 of Boston's 17 titles. Magic and Kobe accounted for 10 of LA's 11.

    That's five players accounting for 26 championships. Do you really think it matters what team they played for?

    And technically, LA and Boston have combined for 28 titles. The nba has been around for 65 years. The only way you get above 50% would be to include the 5 titles the lakers won in the mega media market that is Minneapolis (all with George Mikan).
    Last edited by Kstat; 04-05-2013 at 03:01 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  14. #35
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Oh, only Boston and LA?


    ...so you're saying if the pacers had 6 nba championships, you'd have the same complaint?
    Not once did I insinuate that, but yes, I would. The evidence is there. It's just some accept it as part of the game and others accept it as human error. I accept is as part of the game (aka raise the entertainment value to cash in), and because of that, I only watch Pacers games. Why is it so hard to believe that I only support the NBA because of the Pacers? If it wasn't for me being a little kid in awe of Reggie Miller, there is no way I would watch the NBA today. It's really as simple as that.

  15. #36
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    That's five players accounting for 26 championships. Do you really think it matters what team they played for?
    .
    I think these teams have greater resources for acquiring the players for these great teams, and I believe it's best for the NBA when the large market teams are winning. I'm just adding the numbers, I'm not writing the equation.

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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    I just wish the NBA would conduct an officials review after each game that was opened to the public. I think that would go a long way toward putting to rest any thought of an organized NBA League Office bias and would help fans understand the issues involved in officiating a game.
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  19. #38
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Of course Cuban thinks the nba is rigged. That's why he owns a team and pours hundreds of millions of dollars into it. Cuban is well known for throwing his money into futile investments.
    Cuban is a rich dude that loves basketball. Of course he owns an NBA team. Wouldn't we all if we could, even if we believed it was rigged?

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  21. #39
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    In what world is "manipulating" a game not the same as "rigging" a game? Are we really splitting hairs on the "strength" of a word?
    No, I think the words actually have different meanings to some.

    "Rigged" = The outcome is predetermined before the game even starts. You'd need a vast conspiracy between players, coaches, officials etc. for this to happen, with no one ever leaking the secret, ever. Not very likely.

    "Manipulated" = Officials might not be trying to alter the actual outcome of a game but might, for example, call the game more loosely when one team is going on a big run, or when a star is having a big game, etc. Occasionally the "manipulation" in a close game might end up determining the winner, either intentionally or unintentionally.

    I'm not saying whether or not this happens, just saying that there is a distinction between those two things.

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    But when 2 teams win over 50% of the total championships, something has to be up.
    No, actually, it doesn't. Most sports leagues have eras of dynasties. The NFL had a two-decade span where one conference won almost all of the SuperBowls. The NHL has had periods where teams dominated, such as the Canadiens in the 50s/60s/70s. Baseball has had dynasties with the Yankees etc.

    As for the two teams you're talking about, they were crazy-dominant due to the personnel they had. No need for a conspiracy, just look at the level of talent.

    Of the list of the NBA's "50 Greatest Players" made in 1997, 21 of those played for the Lakers or Celtics, most of them during their prime.

    CELTICS

    Bill Russell (11 rings)
    Larry Bird
    Nate Archibald (later in career)
    Dave Bing (final season)
    Bob Cousy
    Dave Cowens
    John Havlicek
    Sam Jones
    Kevin McHale
    Robert Parish
    Bill Sharman
    Bill Walton (end of career)


    LAKERS

    George Mikan (most dominant player of his era, 7 rings)
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6 rings, 6 MVP awards)
    Elgin Baylor
    Wilt Chamberlain (final 6 seasons)
    Magic Johnson (5 rings)
    Karl Malone (final season)
    Shaquille O'Neal
    Jerry West
    James Worthy

    Since 1997 you could add Kobe Bryant (5 rings) to that list safely, and probably Kevin Garnett as well. How could you NOT win a ton of championships with these guys? Heck Bill Russell alone was on 11 championship teams!

    Also keep in mind that the NBA had 9 teams by 1966, 18 by 1974, and 22 by 1976. So a ton of those early championships by the Celtics and Lakers were during an era where the talent was concentrated on a small number of teams.

    Since 1988-9 the Lakers and Celtics have 'only' won 6 out of 25 championships, less than 25 percent. And that included the Shaq/Kobe 3-peat.

    ---------------

    If you're looking for a 'vast conspiracy,' look at how much talent is concentrated on so few teams. I can think of a few games (2001 Lakers/Kings series etc) where there were biased calls toward star teams but there are many, many more head-scratching instances in history where you wonder "how in the heck did that team get those players?"

    EDIT: to be clear, I do not believe there is a conspiracy in how the great teams got their players. I'm saying that great players are the reasons those teams won so many championships, not anything to do with officiating


    Last edited by rabid; 04-05-2013 at 04:24 PM.

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  23. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    I think these teams have greater resources for acquiring the players for these great teams, and I believe it's best for the NBA when the large market teams are winning. I'm just adding the numbers, I'm not writing the equation.
    Greater resources?

    Russell- draft pick
    Hondo- draft pick
    Bird- draft pick

    Magic- draft pick
    Kobe- draft pick (trade)

    Did the pacer lack resources when they traded a potential Jordan draft pick?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  24. #41
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    If things are rigged than why does the best team always win the championship. I cannot remember when the best team hasn't won. I mean does the NBA always want the best team to win, even when it is the Spurs?

    And how come we have never had a Kobe vs Lebron NBA Finals - a lot of people would love to see that. The NBA if they do rig the thing they really aren't very good at it.

  25. #42

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    -Officials calling a foul.... and two players of the same team are close to the foul. The foul goes to the lesser known "name."

    - Lebron James can go 5 games or so without committing a foul.

    - Kobe,Lebron, etc can go years without fouling out of a game

    - Make up calls

    - When teams are up, they stop getting calls

    Just a few of the things that bother me about NBA officiating. I think NBA officiating has changed the last 5 or 6 years. You see a lot less of the "Allen Iverson" type calls where all the star has to do is drive, get minimal contact, and is put on the line. Players can actually stand straight up on defense and not get called for a foul. I wonder if this change had something to do with the increased scrutiny after the Donahgy scandal and Donahgy's own allegations of officiating. The fact that NBA fans are so aware of who the officials are is an interesting factor. There are celebrity officials in the NBA: Crawford, Bavetta, etc. In no other sport do you see this.

    ed hochuli in the NFL but that's only because of his huge magnified blow call a few years ago.
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  27. #43

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If things are rigged than why does the best team always win the championship. I cannot remember when the best team hasn't won. I mean does the NBA always want the best team to win, even when it is the Spurs?

    And how come we have never had a Kobe vs Lebron NBA Finals - a lot of people would love to see that. The NBA if they do rig the thing they really aren't very good at it.
    Well I don't think people are arguing that it's scripted. Just that teams are given an advantage.
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  29. #44
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Greater resources?

    Russell- draft pick
    Hondo- draft pick
    Bird- draft pick

    Magic- draft pick
    Kobe- draft pick (trade)

    Did the pacer lack resources when they traded a potential Jordan draft pick?
    You used the one example where the pacers do have the same resource, the draft. You forgot to mention things such as local media revenue, taking on salary in lopsided trades, going over luxury tax, and things that are important to free agents, such as the hollywood lifestyle, living on a coast, warm weather and income tax free states.

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  31. #45

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    Cuban is a rich dude that loves basketball. Of course he owns an NBA team. Wouldn't we all if we could, even if we believed it was rigged?
    It was interesting to note that after the Mavericks were eliminated from the finals in 2006, Cuban went up to stern and yelled at him for his league being rigged (reportedly and he was fined). Wade shot a lot of free throws that series and the Mavs were hit with some debilitating suspensions if I remember correctly. The next time his team was in the finals was 2011 and if you remember Cuban was very quiet (much was made about this in the media) and his team won.

    Not saying they're all related, just interesting factoids.
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  33. #46
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Of course Cuban thinks the nba is rigged. That's why he owns a team and pours hundreds of millions of dollars into it. Cuban is well known for throwing his money into futile investments.
    How is it futile for him when he won a championship? Maybe he bought off the commish.

  34. #47

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Am going to steer clear and not participate in this poll because "rigged" is a
    pretty tricky word that can be looked at in many different ways.

    If used in the context of "fraudulently manipulated", there very well could have
    been cases where games were rigged e.g., Tim Donaghy. I don't beleive this
    is the norm at all though.

    Some might argue the draft lottery is rigged just by giving the most ping-pong
    balls to the team with the worst record.

    But no, I don't beleive at all that games are rigged so the outcome is known
    beforehand i.e., like a pro wrestling match.

    So I guess my best answer is that it could be rigged sometimes, but that is
    an exception and not the norm.


  35. #48

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    If it happens in the Pac-12 with Ed Rush, I'll just assume it's likely it happens in the NBA as well.

  36. #49

    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If things are rigged than why does the best team always win the championship. I cannot remember when the best team hasn't won. I mean does the NBA always want the best team to win, even when it is the Spurs?

    And how come we have never had a Kobe vs Lebron NBA Finals - a lot of people would love to see that. The NBA if they do rig the thing they really aren't very good at it.
    This is why I hate the use of the word "rigged".

    The league doesn't pick who's going to be in the finals, all they can do is officiate the game in a way that benefits certain teams. If one team is vastly superior to the competition (I.E. the Spurs), they are going to win championships regardless. In fact, the best team always winning argument would lend more support to the fact that the league is manipulated! In every other sport you see cinderella teams make runs and win championships (even in basketball at other levels). This virtually never happens in the NBA. You (almost) never see a random 6 seed get hot and win a championship. Those teams have practically zero chance when they run into a big market team with a superstar. I guarantee you we will not see a Memphis-Atlanta finals. For that matter, I would guarantee you we won't see a Denver-Indiana finals. It doesn't matter that each team is a 3 seed in its conference, they just don't have a shot in the playoffs. You can argue that this is because the NBA is more superstar dependent than other sports, but I'd say that that's because of the way the league is run.

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  38. #50
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    Default Re: Is the NBA rigged???

    Quote Originally Posted by dgranger17 View Post
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    If it happens in the Pac-12 with Ed Rush, I'll just assume it's likely it happens in the NBA as well.

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