I'm not perfect and neither are you.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv
Do they only rig Laker games? or do they rig every game? I'd like to know so I don't waste my time watching the rigged games.
At least I am glad this very carefully edited video proves it conclusively. I don't have to waste my time anymore
Nothing in life worth having comes easy.
I think rigged is too strong of a word. That suggests the outcomes are predetermined, which defiantly is not the case.
Depends on how you define rigged....
"We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.
I automatically think every game my team loses is rigged. It beats having to admit my team just wasn't good enough.
Of course, I'll always come back and keep watching my team play, while simultaneously professing how everything is rigged and never ever explain why I'm still watching.
Keep in mind, everything is only rigged when we lose. When we win, everything is totally on the up and up.
Last edited by Kstat; 04-05-2013 at 01:45 PM.
Actually rigged? That is (hopefully) pretty harsh.
I think the officiating has a "keep it close" mode, a "huge comeback" mode where the team with momentum is given heavy benefit of the doubt on both ends of the floor during their run, and possibly a "storyline enhancement" mode. I also think that the superstar treatment is a "performance enhancement" mode to make them more marketable, either as villains or heroes.
Is there a "standings enhancement" mode as well wherein big market teams with superstar talent are given an advantage so that their larger fanbases have a winning / dominant team to actively follow, root for, identify with, and spend money on? Potentially, but not quite as obviously in my opinion.
Every time I hear someone call the NBA "rigged" this goes through my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
I hope nobody is actually crazy enough to think that the NBA is literally rigged. That is, that the whole thing is a charade, and the outcomes are decided in advance. That's not even a possibility unless you believe everyone (refs, players, coaches, etc.) are in on it. I would really like for that word to be banned from the lexicon of NBA fans. If you want to talk about whether the NBA is "manipulated" in certain ways, then we can talk. I certainly think it's possible, maybe likely, that the refs have been instructed to be generous to the Lakers and hard on the Mavs and Jazz. After all, the Lakers in the first round means way more money for the league. So are games manipulated by the league? Quite possibly. Are the games "rigged"? NO!!
Now, if you want to talk about things that could really be rigged, we could talk about the draft lottery....
....which, again, would only be possible if the entire league was in on it...given that every team with a stake in the lottery has a representative present when the numbers are drawn.
I believe you can make a similar video about every team in the league, I guess the NBA wanted the Pacers to win against Golden State last year when Hill clearly kicked the ball and stole it to make the game winner layup.
Can there be a place between "rigged" and "shady"?
I think there are biases, which are human nature.
I think there are blown calls, which are human nature.
I think some times those two multiply out and that can cause frustrations.
I've heard feakin' Bulls fans complaining about conspiracy theories this year. Never thought that would happen from a big market team.
Is perception reality? No. I'd quit watching a long time ago if I really believed that. But I can also get frustrated with specific instances.
Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
- Just to add to above post:
Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead.
Who all is in on the rig, or is it only one person?
I am a HUGE Cuban fan, even shared emails with him.
Please note Cuban does not believe the NBA is rigged (I just agreed with Kstat. I need to shower).
Does he think there are terrible mistakes and biases that are unnacceptable and should not be biased? Sure, and I think he is right to speak up. Just as I think the NBA is within theirs rights to fine him.
If Cuban thought the NBA was rigged he would not own Dallas and spend hundreds of millions of dollars into them (maybe billions?)
PS. I think the changes the NBA made because of Cuban were great. and I will ALWAYS questions Kings - Lakers game 6
Please also note how after Dallas won the NBA finals Cuban get real quiet. Like Kstat said (here I go again) winning cures most theories.....
My first thought when I saw this title was Kstat would be in this thread
My second thought was that this is done every couple of months/years.
My answer is the same, is it WWE rigged, no. Are there a lot of biases and possible rogue people (such as Tim D the referee), yes, in my opinion of course.
In what world is "manipulating" a game not the same as "rigging" a game? Are we really splitting hairs on the "strength" of a word? I believe the NBA referees manipulate games, which to me, means they can be and sometimes are rigged. Of course the outcome is not pre-determined, but favoring one player or team during the course of a game is rigging the outcome. I know many of you on this board feel the NBA tries to be a fair league, which is fine. But when 2 teams win over 50% of the total championships, something has to be up. You keep closing your eyes and enjoying and I'll keep watching only Pacers games and ignore the rest of the league. We all win.
And yes, it is hard to follow a team you know has little-to-no chance of ever winning a championship. Damn you Reggie Miller.
No, I think the words actually have different meanings to some.
"Rigged" = The outcome is predetermined before the game even starts. You'd need a vast conspiracy between players, coaches, officials etc. for this to happen, with no one ever leaking the secret, ever. Not very likely.
"Manipulated" = Officials might not be trying to alter the actual outcome of a game but might, for example, call the game more loosely when one team is going on a big run, or when a star is having a big game, etc. Occasionally the "manipulation" in a close game might end up determining the winner, either intentionally or unintentionally.
I'm not saying whether or not this happens, just saying that there is a distinction between those two things.
No, actually, it doesn't. Most sports leagues have eras of dynasties. The NFL had a two-decade span where one conference won almost all of the SuperBowls. The NHL has had periods where teams dominated, such as the Canadiens in the 50s/60s/70s. Baseball has had dynasties with the Yankees etc.
As for the two teams you're talking about, they were crazy-dominant due to the personnel they had. No need for a conspiracy, just look at the level of talent.
Of the list of the NBA's "50 Greatest Players" made in 1997, 21 of those played for the Lakers or Celtics, most of them during their prime.
Bill Russell (11 rings)
Nate Archibald (later in career)
Dave Bing (final season)
Bill Walton (end of career)
George Mikan (most dominant player of his era, 7 rings)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (6 rings, 6 MVP awards)
Wilt Chamberlain (final 6 seasons)
Magic Johnson (5 rings)
Karl Malone (final season)
Since 1997 you could add Kobe Bryant (5 rings) to that list safely, and probably Kevin Garnett as well. How could you NOT win a ton of championships with these guys? Heck Bill Russell alone was on 11 championship teams!
Also keep in mind that the NBA had 9 teams by 1966, 18 by 1974, and 22 by 1976. So a ton of those early championships by the Celtics and Lakers were during an era where the talent was concentrated on a small number of teams.
Since 1988-9 the Lakers and Celtics have 'only' won 6 out of 25 championships, less than 25 percent. And that included the Shaq/Kobe 3-peat.
If you're looking for a 'vast conspiracy,' look at how much talent is concentrated on so few teams. I can think of a few games (2001 Lakers/Kings series etc) where there were biased calls toward star teams but there are many, many more head-scratching instances in history where you wonder "how in the heck did that team get those players?"
EDIT: to be clear, I do not believe there is a conspiracy in how the great teams got their players. I'm saying that great players are the reasons those teams won so many championships, not anything to do with officiating
Last edited by rabid; 04-05-2013 at 04:24 PM.
I don't know about current NBA, but the original draft lottery (1985) has always looked incredibly shady to me. We've went over this before, of course, but no one presented an argument that swayed my opinion. I doubt anyone will this time, either.
Of course Cuban thinks the nba is rigged. That's why he owns a team and pours hundreds of millions of dollars into it. Cuban is well known for throwing his money into futile investments.
Last edited by Kstat; 04-05-2013 at 02:25 PM.
It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.
Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004
It was interesting to note that after the Mavericks were eliminated from the finals in 2006, Cuban went up to stern and yelled at him for his league being rigged (reportedly and he was fined). Wade shot a lot of free throws that series and the Mavs were hit with some debilitating suspensions if I remember correctly. The next time his team was in the finals was 2011 and if you remember Cuban was very quiet (much was made about this in the media) and his team won.
Not saying they're all related, just interesting factoids.