View Poll Results: Is the 2013 Pacers team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 Pacers team?

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  • 2013 team is better

    80 74.77%
  • 2013 team is the same

    23 21.50%
  • 2013 team is worse

    4 3.74%
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Thread: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

  1. #51
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I also think that Paul george is a better creator than Danny Granger was.

    For comparison sake it is probably more useful to compare Paul this year with Danny last year and lance this year with Paul last year.
    I can go with that. Although I would echo Trader Joe's sentiments that Lance is better this year than PG last year, and PG is better this year (as an all around player) than Granger was last year.

    The offensive gap in the offense left by Granger, in my opinion, is largely made up by West being significantly improved from last year.
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  3. #52
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Except that I would point out that disciplined defense requires habits, and if pressed teams that did NOT focus on defense during the season can and often do fall back to what they did during the year.

    I think the level of INTENSITY of defense goes up for the playoffs, but I think a team that didn't play a solid defense in the regular season isn't suddenly going to click just because it is the first game of the first round. There has to be something for that intensity to build on.

    I guess it would be easier to say that you might see one-on-one defense improve, because a lot of that is focus, but team defense requires coordination formed by practice and usage, and that won't improve much.
    I agree with you.

    But I do think there is some merit in the notion that lets take a team like the Bulls. I think most will say that they play harder more often in the regular season than any other team. If you disagree, OK, but for sake of discussion, go with me. The Bulls have less to improve on in the effort department than some other team that doesn't play as hard in the regular season. A team can only play so hard, and the Bulls are maxed out.

    That is why if someone made me answer the question. Is talent more important in the playoffs or in the regular season. I would say the playoffs. Because there are fewer variables in the playoffs. no back to backs, no crazy travel, teams play harder in general. Players are more able to set aside personal agendas.......In NBA level team can win a lot of games in the regular season with effort, it is more difficult to do that in the playoffs.

    Keep in mind I am talking in broad generalities.

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Although I would echo Trader Joe's sentiments that Lance is better this year than PG last year, and PG is better this year (as an all around player) than Granger was last year.
    Lance hasn't been able to put together a single month of production better than PG last season. Lance's best month this season was Feb, where he averaged 11.2pts 4.2rebs and 3.2 assists. Compared to PG's full season of 12pts 5.6rebs 2.4 assists. Lance's ceiling is as high as his brain/emotions will allow him to go, but he's not there yet.


    The teams are about equal, maybe this year is a little better because there's more reliable options down the stretch. This team would be significantly better than last years, and I'd take this bench over last years in a heart beat.

    Next season should be really, really fun.
    Last edited by Since86; 04-01-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  6. #54
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I agree with you.

    But I do think there is some merit in the notion that lets take a team like the Bulls. I think most will say that they play harder more often in the regular season than any other team. If you disagree, OK, but for sake of discussion, go with me. The Bulls have less to improve on in the effort department than some other team that doesn't play as hard in the regular season. A team can only play so hard, and the Bulls are maxed out.

    That is why if someone made me answer the question. Is talent more important in the playoffs or in the regular season. I would say the playoffs. Because there are fewer variables in the playoffs. no back to backs, no crazy travel, teams play harder in general. Players are more able to set aside personal agendas.......In NBA level team can win a lot of games in the regular season with effort, it is more difficult to do that in the playoffs.

    Keep in mind I am talking in broad generalities.
    I see what you are saying, but if a team plays hard and maxes out their individual talent they are still going to be overcome by a team that plays hard and also can maximize their team defensive strategy. I think the latter is not going to happen with a team that had no solid team defensive strategy in the regular season, or even one who tried to implement one late in the season. If it didn't click in the regular season I don't think it is going to suddenly click in the playoffs.

    In your example, while the Bulls individually aren't going to improve as much as another team that doesn't play as hard in the regular season, the solidity of their team defense is going to trump any amount of "play hard" improvement from any team who does not already also have a solid team defense.
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  8. #55
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    Default Re: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    The bolded part is what I meant. I think regular season defense is not the same as playoffs defense. What I say is, well, maybe the Pacers are disciplined and coached in a way that they play tough defense during the regular season, but when the playoffs start then everybody's going to get physical, everybody's going to give their 100% on defense, and yeah, Pacers could possibly still be the best defensive team in the NBA even in the postseason, but like you said the gap will not be as big.
    I understood what you meant. I just disagree with that. BillS did a good job presenting my view.

    Some teams that have shown the ability to play good D with their current core but tend to coast or rest in the RS (like the Heat and the Celtics) will certainly improve their defense a lot. I have no doubt about that.

    But teams that are playing mediocre D throughout the season and have not shown the ability to be a dominant defensive team with their current core like the Rockets, the Lakers, the Jazz, the Knicks and the Nets are not going to suddenly step it up and become dominant defensively. They will improve but not by a ton.

    Because they simple lack the basis for it. They lack the habits that BillS mentioned. And most importantly, most of them lack a defensive identity.
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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

    I say the only difference is that the 2012 team had Granger
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  10. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    I say the only difference is that the 2012 team had Granger
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  11. #58
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the 2013 team better, worse, or the same as the 2012 team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I agree with you.

    But I do think there is some merit in the notion that lets take a team like the Bulls. I think most will say that they play harder more often in the regular season than any other team. If you disagree, OK, but for sake of discussion, go with me. The Bulls have less to improve on in the effort department than some other team that doesn't play as hard in the regular season. A team can only play so hard, and the Bulls are maxed out.

    That is why if someone made me answer the question. Is talent more important in the playoffs or in the regular season. I would say the playoffs. Because there are fewer variables in the playoffs. no back to backs, no crazy travel, teams play harder in general. Players are more able to set aside personal agendas.......In NBA level team can win a lot of games in the regular season with effort, it is more difficult to do that in the playoffs.

    Keep in mind I am talking in broad generalities.
    I think it is important to note that playing hard, efficiently, takes some practice, time and discipline. The Bulls and Pacers will have practiced and fine-tuned the art of playing at high capacity. Teams that just gear up for the playoffs don't have that same advantage.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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