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Thread: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Didn't see this discussed anywhere, so I thought I'd post it here.

    Nobody has talked about the fact that our comeback was effectively killed by Fred Jones losing his cool and elbowing Rip Hamilton. Two shots and the ball... that was the dagger.

    Yeah, the guy played well right after the suspensions. Good for him. The thing is, that was the time when we had no expectations and there was no pressure on him. He was able to do his thing without other teams having scouted him, and so he got off to a good start. Since then, though, he's been a victim of his own success. He hasn't able to keep up with it. The real problem is that when you put him in an intensely competitive situation he can't control himself. He's a great basketball talent but he needs to find another line of work.

    ----------

    Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek.... I was just curious as to why nobody commented on the fact that Fred's "foul" on Rip was almost identical to Ron's "foul" on Rip. Artest has been crucified all summer and season for what Rip admitted was a flop. Why isn't anybody saying those things about Fred?

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    I'm glad I read your last paragraph because after I read the first two, I had smoke coming out of my ears and I was warming up for a tirade.

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    I didn't see it as that big of a deal. Freddie was trying to deny Rip the ball and when his elbow touched Rip,Rip like REGGIE, flopped to make it appear worse than it really was.At least the replay showed such.IMO.Rip is starting to make a career out of mimicing the Reggie flop every time someone touches him.

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Rip acted his way into the flagrant call. I have to see it again to see if Fred went out of his way (like Ron did in the ECF) to hit him in the first place, rather than what could be seen more as a basketball play.

    That should be enough for most, but if not then I'll add this. Fred has much more of a "benefit of the doubt" than Ron did/does. Finally, this wasn't the end of an elination game in the ECF. But that last point is least important to me.

  5. #5
    Free Artest
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Fred Jones is the 2nd most clutch player on the team. The only player I'd rather have take a last second shot is Reggie.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Rip is a very dirty player, I watched him very closely yesterday and was very surprised just how dirty he is.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Rip is a very dirty player, I watched him very closely yesterday and was very surprised just how dirty he is.
    *sigh*

    I'm not even sure this is really UB anymore........he's been totally irrational over the last week or so.

    I suppose he's right, as long as he admits Reggie is a "dirty player" too.....

    UBG, is there any player left on the Pistons roster that you havent suddenly decided is "evil?"

  8. #8
    ReGgieMiLLeR31
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    KSTAT, why don't you get it we are on a Pacers forum and these dirty Detroit Pistons effectively ruined our season and none of the blame was taken on them; and just look what kind of disgusting animals some of them are: Ben Wallace saying Ron is his b!tch on and off the court? Wow, Ben gave a Pacer fan a "headband", do you understand this is all ploy so his image of a "good guy" comes out rather than a "bad guy" everyone has painted Ron Artest to be.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Rip acted his way into the flagrant call. I have to see it again to see if Fred went out of his way (like Ron did in the ECF) to hit him in the first place, rather than what could be seen more as a basketball play.
    To me, it looked like Ron's. They were shoving back and forth for position, and Rip flopped at exactly the right time. Not that I have a problem with it, it was perfectly timed, which is a skill in itself. We should know, after watching Reggie for so long. And I certainly don't fault Freddy for it. But neither do I fault Ron.

    Finally, this wasn't the end of an elination game in the ECF. But that last point is least important to me.
    I think you're in the minority... most of the "Ron can't handle pressure" crap is directly linked to that one incident, which got a lot bigger in everyone's mind because it was at the very end of the last game of our season.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Does anyone have video of the Ron/Rip foul and the Freddy/Rip foul?

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Does anyone have video of the Ron/Rip foul and the Freddy/Rip foul?
    Not in front of me, but yeah I could put together a video clip of both.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek.... I was just curious as to why nobody commented on the fact that Fred's "foul" on Rip was almost identical to Ron's "foul" on Rip. Artest has been crucified all summer and season for what Rip admitted was a flop. Why isn't anybody saying those things about Fred?[/QUOTE]

    I'm pretty sure the reason that nobody is saying anything is because Fred has ZERO history of doing this.

    Also Fred has never made the comment that as a game goes along if he doesn't have a foul that he has the right to make a HARD foul during the game. Like Ron said two seasons ago.

    Fred has never tossed the gatorade container.

    Fred has never argued with the coach of another team.

    Fred has never etc., etc., etc.

  13. #13
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I'm pretty sure the reason that nobody is saying anything is because Fred has ZERO history of doing this.

    Also Fred has never made the comment that as a game goes along if he doesn't have a foul that he has the right to make a HARD foul during the game. Like Ron said two seasons ago.

    Fred has never tossed the gatorade container.

    Fred has never argued with the coach of another team.

    Fred has never etc., etc., etc.
    Oh, we all agree that those were stupid actions on Ron's part. But I think we can also agree that they're all a sign of immaturity and/or stupidity, but probably not signs of "not being able to handle the pressure."

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Not in front of me, but yeah I could put together a video clip of both.
    Sounds good. Show as much of the replay as possible, as long as it's close up.

    You da man.

  15. #15
    pb777
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    I dont think Fred choked at all yesterday. If anything he waited too long to bring his a-game. If it's not for his 3 late in the 4th bringing us close we would not be talking about this bs flagerant foul. Rip did bait him and flop IMO. Anyway, I wish Fred would have turned it on sooner in the game instead of passing up all those open 3's.

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    I am surprised that no one pointed out that it was less of an elbow than Rip gave Tinsley in the Nov game while Ben was shoving Ron into the goal. There was no flagrant called then why now?

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure


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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    *sigh*

    I'm not even sure this is really UB anymore........he's been totally irrational over the last week or so.

    I suppose he's right, as long as he admits Reggie is a "dirty player" too.....

    UBG, is there any player left on the Pistons roster that you havent suddenly decided is "evil?"

    Kstat, I need to explain my post. Last night I went into some detail on Rip Hamilton and his "dirty play"

    As I posted last night Rip is a good dirty player in the John Stockton mold, and even a little in the Reggie Miller mold, although Rip just outright hits people. But the refs don't call it so more power to him.

    Kstat I sat along the baseline very low to the court for the Christmas day game and saw some things from Rip that surprised me. Things you can't pick up on by watching on TV.

    Kstat, I am laughing as I am posting this. I don't think Rip is evil. Maybe evilly good if there is such a phrase.

    Have I been irrational, I hope not, I think I am the same guy, but I do hate losing.

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    I am surprised that no one pointed out that it was less of an elbow than Rip gave Tinsley in the Nov game while Ben was shoving Ron into the goal. There was no flagrant called then why now?
    I wanted to know what you were talking about, so I actually went back and checked the video. Here it is:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/ron_hit.wmv (8.56MB)

    I don't see what you're talking about.

    If you can, can you tell me what time was roughly on the clock (within say 20 seconds) when it happens?

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    A Magical Place Hoop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Reggie is a flopper and a damn good one, I won't deny that, but I don't recall Reggie ever elbowing people the way I've seen Rip do several times. I was at the Christmas game and was screaming bloody murder at a few of the cheap shots that were thrown by Rip. I find it amazing that all 3 refs missed them.

    The more I see it, Ron's so called flagrant against Rip looks less and less like anything.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    A Magical Place Hoop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I wanted to know what you were talking about, so I actually went back and checked the video. Here it is:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/ron_hit.wmv (8.56MB)

    I don't see what you're talking about.

    If you can, can you tell me what time was roughly on the clock (within say 20 seconds) when it happens?
    I think it was the Pacer's possession after that, I deleted the game and all the brawl stuff off my TIVO, so I can't look to see for sure.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop
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    I think it was the Pacer's possession after that, I deleted the game and all the brawl stuff off my TIVO, so I can't look to see for sure.
    It was the play or two before when Wallace shoved Artest into the basket support. HATE BEN WALLACE!!! and that's the nicest I can put it.

    Water

  23. #23
    King Mob
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    I think he's referring the foul they called on Rip, maybe a minute or two before that clip. Tins was in the backcourt bringing the ball up, and Rip shoved him with a forearm. That's the best I can recall.

    And at no point in the video Hicks posted does Ben "shove" Ron into the basket support, come on now. There was contact, but the way people here tell it, you'd think Ben suplexed him into the thing.

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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop
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    Reggie is a flopper and a damn good one, I won't deny that, but I don't recall Reggie ever elbowing people the way I've seen Rip do several times.
    Reggie wasn't afraid to get in a cheap shot now and then when he thought he could get away with it.

    I recall one time toward the end of a game where a player was crouched over the ball, protecting a narrow lead expecting a touch foul to send him to the line and Reggie shoved him with both hands to the face. He got called for it too which was a shock.

    Not sure exactly when but I think that game was important ...
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure

    Well the clip shows Rip grabbing Fred's arm and pulling it backwards while flopping, so yes, nowhere near a flagrant.
    The Ron clip leaves out the next shot from the baseline, in which it becomes grosly clear that Ron did not intent to hit, did not hit and Rip should get an Emmy.

    hey he learned viewing the best in the game who happens to be on our team.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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