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Thread: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Willing to bet?

    PS: Sig bet, I mean.
    You know I'm a betting man. If we don't make it past the second round your sig can say:

    "Ill-informed optimism deludes people into ignoring reality. Frank Vogel puts awful lineups on the floor too often for too long. Our front office overpaid George Hill, Roy Hibbert is the worst max contract player in the league, and they thought Gerald Green was worth $10M gauranteed...which means someone should be fired immediately. We should have sold high on Danny Granger years ago, and we're about to overpay David West in an ongoing commitment to being mediocre to good, but never great."

    For the record I believe all of this. There might be a few max contracts worse than Roy due to injuries (Brandon Roy is still getting paid the max right?) or players just getting old and breaking down, but certainly he's the worst fully functional max player in his prime by far. I do hope someday Vogel can learn to manage his units better to avoid 5 no offense scrubs being on the floor at the same time, because he does have other good coaching qualities...he needs to learn some more NBA quality offensive sets too, but he's young for a coach yet, there is room for growth.

    Of course if we survive round two and are playing for the East, you can choose my sig.

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    This team is going to have a really tough time winning a playoff series. I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy, but we must remember that this team has never eliminated a "good" team from the playoffs. Now it's certainly not our fault that Howard was hurt last year (I don't think we win that series if he plays), but the point remains the same. People were obsessing about how we matched up against Miami after that smackdown they gave us last Sunday, but I could care less about Miami right now. We are going to have a tough enough time getting past a New York, Brooklyn, Atlanta, Chicago, or Boston. A potential matchup with Miami is light years down the road right now. They should be the least of our worries.

    I think the new front office did a terrible job this summer. Our bench is an absolute joke. Green is a complete failure of a signing by any objective measure possible. We are paying him 3.5 million this season so that he can have a nice front row seat. Mahinmi is OK, but he isn't worth four years. Augistin has been a major disappointment. Our first round draft pick has played about 15 seconds this season. Hansbrough (certainly not the fault of this front office) is worse now than he was as a rookie. Our starters are going to be gassed in the playoffs if our bench can't give us anything. It's going to be really hard to win a playoff series with this bench. This team would be in big big trouble if Lance and PG hadn't taken such big steps this year.

    Is it possible that the Granger situation is hurting the team's psyche? What I mean is, all year the guys have been playing under the assumption that they were holding down the fort until Granger came back and gave them a major boost. Then Granger came back and looked very poor when he played, before being benched again for an indeterminable amount of time. It seems like the team began playing bad at the exact moment it became obvious that there is still something seriously wrong with Granger. We've looked sloppy since March began. These guys are professionals, but they are also human. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Granger situation has them down in the dumps a bit. He is their friend and teammate. All year they were playing under the mindset that he would be along for the ride at the end of the season and into the playoffs, but now it's obvious to them and everyone else that the odds of him giving us serious contributions this season are pretty miniscule. They have probably realized by now that they are going to be battling in the playoffs without him. That has to be depressing.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 03-18-2013 at 09:31 AM.

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  4. #78
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    You know I'm a betting man. If we don't make it past the second round your sig can say:

    "Ill-informed optimism deludes people into ignoring reality. Frank Vogel puts awful lineups on the floor too often for too long. Our front office overpaid George Hill, Roy Hibbert is the worst max contract player in the league, and they thought Gerald Green was worth $10M gauranteed...which means someone should be fired immediately. We should have sold high on Danny Granger years ago, and we're about to overpay David West in an ongoing commitment to being mediocre to good, but never great."

    For the record I believe all of this. There might be a few max contracts worse than Roy due to injuries (Brandon Roy is still getting paid the max right?) or players just getting old and breaking down, but certainly he's the worst fully functional max player in his prime by far. I do hope someday Vogel can learn to manage his units better to avoid 5 no offense scrubs being on the floor at the same time, because he does have other good coaching qualities...he needs to learn some more NBA quality offensive sets too, but he's young for a coach yet, there is room for growth.

    Of course if we survive round two and are playing for the East, you can choose my sig.
    Wow. That sig bet seems more like the one you'd get after having the current offseason and missing the playoffs altogether.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Wow. That sig bet seems more like the one you'd get after having the current offseason and missing the playoffs altogether.
    We had the 5th best record last season, had our draft picks, and had a ton of cap room. To be in that good a situation and not only not improve, but actually get 2 games worse? That takes some incredible ineptitude.

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    You know I'm a betting man. If we don't make it past the second round your sig can say:

    "Ill-informed optimism deludes people into ignoring reality. Frank Vogel puts awful lineups on the floor too often for too long. Our front office overpaid George Hill, Roy Hibbert is the worst max contract player in the league, and they thought Gerald Green was worth $10M gauranteed...which means someone should be fired immediately. We should have sold high on Danny Granger years ago, and we're about to overpay David West in an ongoing commitment to being mediocre to good, but never great."

    For the record I believe all of this. There might be a few max contracts worse than Roy due to injuries (Brandon Roy is still getting paid the max right?) or players just getting old and breaking down, but certainly he's the worst fully functional max player in his prime by far. I do hope someday Vogel can learn to manage his units better to avoid 5 no offense scrubs being on the floor at the same time, because he does have other good coaching qualities...he needs to learn some more NBA quality offensive sets too, but he's young for a coach yet, there is room for growth.

    Of course if we survive round two and are playing for the East, you can choose my sig.
    I know that you are a betting man. That's exactly why I proposed it

    If your sig is going to be so extreme then I'm not going to hold back either

    By the way, how is this Hibbert going? 42,9%, right? Getting closer and closer by the game
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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I know that you are a betting man. That's exactly why I proposed it

    If your sig is going to be so extreme then I'm not going to hold back either

    By the way, how is this Hibbert going? 42,9%, right? Getting closer and closer by the game
    Not closer this game! 9-26 is painful, both because its under the 45% and because he used up 2-3 games worth of his usual shot attempts. Of course I had to take it to the extreme - we're only risking our signatures here, might as well make it lively.
    Last edited by Dece; 03-18-2013 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Roy only made 9 shots, not 11, gave him too much credit :(

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Bird sets this Franchise up for success and our biggest flipping FA signing last year is Gelard Greene.

    Hibbert and Hill were our own and expected to be re-signed. Granted no one expected Granger to miss the season but is just pathetic. Terrible job by the FO over the offseason.

    both Greene and Augustin have been average to just flat out awful. Really dissapointed in the FO.

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    We had the 5th best record last season, had our draft picks, and had a ton of cap room. To be in that good a situation and not only not improve, but actually get 2 games worse? That takes some incredible ineptitude.
    And also a major injury to arguably your most consistent shooter for the whole year.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Bird sets this Franchise up for success and our biggest flipping FA signing last year is Gelard Greene.

    Hibbert and Hill were our own and expected to be re-signed. Granted no one expected Granger to miss the season but is just pathetic. Terrible job by the FO over the offseason.

    both Greene and Augustin have been average to just flat out awful. Really dissapointed in the FO.
    I think people have really forgotten what "pathetic" actually is. Let me give you a hint - it was something like Larry Bird "setting up" the franchise by extending a certain coach's contract...

    Look, I understand people think there were better moves to be made. I understand there were people who were so sure that Danny would never be any good they felt trading him was both possible but a good idea.

    But let's not act like this team was on the cusp of a championship and they've been turned into a non-playoff team with a losing record. We could have been better, but we sure as heck could have been worse - and "pathetic" implies "worse".

    And let's also remember that one of the "huh?" moves of the summer was the draft of Plumlee - by Larry Joe Bird.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I think people have really forgotten what "pathetic" actually is. Let me give you a hint - it was something like Larry Bird "setting up" the franchise by extending a certain coach's contract...

    Look, I understand people think there were better moves to be made. I understand there were people who were so sure that Danny would never be any good they felt trading him was both possible but a good idea.

    But let's not act like this team was on the cusp of a championship and they've been turned into a non-playoff team with a losing record. We could have been better, but we sure as heck could have been worse - and "pathetic" implies "worse".

    And let's also remember that one of the "huh?" moves of the summer was the draft of Plumlee - by Larry Joe Bird.
    fair enough. then lets here your full spin on this. who would you have liked to seen the Pacers bring in the offseason Obrien was extended. if i remember correctly, the team just finished as 10th worst in the league (where we drafted Paul George) and we still had one more season of Dunleavys, Murphy, and Tinsley's terrible contracts.

    what coach would you have replaced Obrien with.. i mean there had to be several outstanding coaches knocking down the door to get in here and coach this team right??

    i mean, SVG has to be the only coach who wouldve rejected an opportunity to coach mike dunleavy and troy murphy right?

    i mean it makes no sense whatsover for "Larry Joe Bird" to extend Obrien one more season, then have the team in a positon to compete and aggressively pursue a head coach at that point as the roster begins to fill out.

    I will say what i think is pathetic is that pacer fans cant seem to realize this several seasons after the fact. Im sure accomplished head coaches would have loved to come in and coach a team with the 10th worst record and still one season away from having cap space.

    sooo.. i gues by your estimation we should have fired Obrien... interviewed coaches like SVG that would only reject the position, then were stuck with an average coach for one season until the cap room became available. then waht.. keep the average coach or get a better one at that point.

    i would really like to know who the hell anyone thinks Bird could have got to coach this team that was worth a darn. serious flippin question.

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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    fair enough. then lets here your full spin on this. who would you have liked to seen the Pacers bring in the offseason Obrien was extended. if i remember correctly, the team just finished as 10th worst in the league (where we drafted Paul George) and we still had one more season of Dunleavys, Murphy, and Tinsley's terrible contracts.

    what coach would you have replaced Obrien with.. i mean there had to be several outstanding coaches knocking down the door to get in here and coach this team right??

    i mean, SVG has to be the only coach who wouldve rejected an opportunity to coach mike dunleavy and troy murphy right?

    i mean it makes no sense whatsover for "Larry Joe Bird" to extend Obrien one more season, then have the team in a positon to compete and aggressively pursue a head coach at that point as the roster begins to fill out.

    I will say what i think is pathetic is that pacer fans cant seem to realize this several seasons after the fact. Im sure accomplished head coaches would have loved to come in and coach a team with the 10th worst record and still one season away from having cap space.

    sooo.. i gues by your estimation we should have fired Obrien... interviewed coaches like SVG that would only reject the position, then were stuck with an average coach for one season until the cap room became available. then waht.. keep the average coach or get a better one at that point.

    i would really like to know who the hell anyone thinks Bird could have got to coach this team that was worth a darn. serious flippin question.
    First, it wouldn't have been a firing, it would have been not picking up his option.

    Second, I think at that point even having Lester Connor as a one-year fill-in would have at least kept the fans more interested.

    Third, the point really is that making signings that didn't work out to the extent of clobbering the team and making them so bad they are ... well ... about the same as last year, maybe slightly better (after all, Conventional Wisdom says last year we lucked into the second round, while this year even with our recent play I think we'd be a legit second round team) is a long way from "pathetic". I can buy "disappointing", even though I don't think there were all those NBA2K trade options out there that people like to hang their hats on, but "pathetic" seems over the top.
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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    And also a major injury to arguably your most consistent shooter for the whole year.
    At this point we pretty much know that Granger is irrelevant to the majority of the negative people of this forum.
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    Default Re: Pacers/76ers Postgame Thread 3/16/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    First, it wouldn't have been a firing, it would have been not picking up his option.

    Second, I think at that point even having Lester Connor as a one-year fill-in would have at least kept the fans more interested.

    Third, the point really is that making signings that didn't work out to the extent of clobbering the team and making them so bad they are ... well ... about the same as last year, maybe slightly better (after all, Conventional Wisdom says last year we lucked into the second round, while this year even with our recent play I think we'd be a legit second round team) is a long way from "pathetic". I can buy "disappointing", even though I don't think there were all those NBA2K trade options out there that people like to hang their hats on, but "pathetic" seems over the top.
    O'brien was awful in every way. However, the facts are the Pacers had a good run at the end of his second season. He had a 3 year contract. Given the teams late season surge year 2 and the acquisition of DC (legit upgrade @ pg); Obrien was extended so that he was not a "lame duck" coach.

    This happens all the time in professional sports. Nobody said Bird was perfect. In fact, he could be loyal to a fault. Not extending Obrien makes him a lame duck coach and Bird had legit reasons for doing so.

    I never mentioned anything about "nba trades 2k trades." i simply stated that the FO did not do a remarkable job with cap room available to them. Barring a miracle Greene is a bust.

    I think its way too early to label Plumlee a bad pick. at the end of the first round getting a low value big, not knowing if Hibbert would be re-signed is not a make or break move. given Birds draft resume i will give him the benefit of the doubt on plumlee.

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