View Poll Results: Does West's season stack up?

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  • Best all-time

    2 4.88%
  • JO had better seasons

    34 82.93%
  • Someone else had a better season

    3 7.32%
  • not even close

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Thread: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

  1. #1
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Where does West's season thus far rank against Indiana's All-Time NBA power forwards.

    Jermaine O'Neal is pretty much, whatever you think of him, the most prolific Power Forward that Indiana ever had in the NBA, and imo, his best year was 2002-2003. He was still a defensive beast, but was more efficient than he regressed to in later years.

    That year Per 36

    20.1 ppg
    10 rpg
    1.9 apg
    .8 spg
    2.2 bpg

    .484 from the field
    73.1 % from the line

    .177 WS/48

    ORTG 107
    DRTG 97

    West this seaon Per 36

    18.8 ppg
    8.4 rpg
    3.3 apg
    1.1 spg
    1.1 bpg

    .494 from the field
    .767 from the line


    .191 WS/48

    ORTG 110

    DRTG 98

    Perhaps you believe another Pacers Power Forward was better than JO that year, or picked another JO year, but how does West's play this season stack up against all-time NBA pacers power forwards?

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    I can't speak on any Pacers before the mid 90's but give me prime JO and prime Dale Davis over West. That's not a knock on West, I love him, but JO was great in his prime and DD was a legit enforcer.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    David West is a much, much better player than Dale Davis.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    David West is a much, much better player than Dale Davis.
    This does not even seem like a debate to me anyone could have. If you put this David West on that Pacers team in place of Dale Davis they would have been unstoppable offensively.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Yea, but the defense would not have been half as good.

    I guess I can see your point, but Davis was an enforcer.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Yea, but the defense would not have been half as good.
    Dale is the better defender, but West is not bad at all. West's offense vs. Dale's offense is a much bigger net positive than the drop from Dale's D to West's D is a net negative.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Being "an enforcer," is great.

    Being a great player is better.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    I haven't seen Dale play but I think (prime) JO had a really, really unique skillset that would probably put him among the top 20 players in the league today. He was a post scorer and a defensive anchor. West maybe gives you steady production and brings vet leadership, but in terms of on-court production JO was probably the better player
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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    West is better than Davis. Would West have been as good playing alongside Smits as DD was? I'm not that sure about that. I don't know. The way DD played was perfect for Smits I do know that.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Yea, but the defense would not have been half as good.

    I guess I can see your point, but Davis was an enforcer.
    David West might not be the enforcer or defender that Dale Davis is but at least he is not a liability on defense like Dale was on the offensive side of the floor. David West routinely gets other PFs in foul trouble which certainly helps on the defensive end. I also don't see a lot of player taking the ball inside on him either so he tends to do a very effective job on the defensive end.

    Offensively Dale was a liability at times because of his inability to dribble or score outside of 3 feet. He also couldn't hit more than 56% of his FTs for his career so you couldn't leave him on the floor on offense during the final seconds of a close game.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Replace Davis with West on some of those 90's teams and they would have been among the best offensive teams all time, JO edges West out by a bit on sheer talent and ability imo, but Davis, and I LOVE Davis wasn't nearly the player West is this season or has been in past seasons. West is pretty intimidating himself and of course, a BAMF.

  19. #12
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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    I have thought about this question - it is a good one.

    JO's MVP-like season that year was probably the best that a Pacers power forward has played in a season in my lifetime. However, I would take West and his leadership/intangibles/maturity this year over JO from that year. I compare David West and what he brings more to what Chris Mullin brought to that 97-98 team - an older, wiser, mature player who helps an already good group reach the next level.

    When I think of JOs great statistical seasons, I think of how he under-achieved in the playoffs and how his teams won less often than it seemed like they should have, given the talent around them.

    When I think of David West, I think of how the team around him always seems play to its potential and how he is in the middle of a lot of that.

    Dale Davis was a different type of Power Forward - the kind of bruiser who was needed in the mid-90s when fouls were harder, the game was slower, and the center he played with was terrible at protecting the rim. That team (and especially Rik Smits) needed Dale Davis, not David West. This team needs David West (particularly the offense), not Dale Davis.

  20. #13
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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    I voted "Best all-time" because while West might not have had the longevity with the Pacers,
    or put up stats like some of the others, he has brought a quality of leadership none of the
    others even come close to. For the longest time one of the biggest gripes almost everyone
    had with the Pacers was lack of leadership... Well now we have in David West one of the
    greatest leaders to ever wear a Pacer uniform...hands down.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Being "an enforcer," is great.

    Being a great player is better.
    A great player doesn't get shut down by Shane Battier on the playoffs.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    A great player doesn't get shut down by Shane Battier on the playoffs.
    I think you know very well that West this season is not remotely comparable to West last season. There is a huge, huge difference. There is no way that Battier would be able to slow West down this year. They tried that in Miami, and though we lost it didn't remotely work against West.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    I was going to say Mcginnis then I check ed this site. http://www.nasljerseys.com/ABA/Roste...ers_Roster.htm He blows david west out of the water because in 1974-75 he averaged 150 RPG.
    And its on the interwebs so you know it is true!

  24. #17
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    McGinnis was the best and had HOF talent but his body broke down before he could prove it in both leagues.

    West is the better player but Dale was so valuable because he could defend the 4 and the 5. He was Player X with an emphasis on the dirty work. I honestly don't think the 90's version of the Pacers would have been as competative with the Knicks/Bulls/Heat had West been lining up next to Smits and McKey/Mullin/Jalen.

    Part of the reason I now see West as so valuable for this current team is because Hibbert has developed into a much better rim protector than any of us ever expected and doesn't need a Player X type beside him. West and Mahinmi compliment each other as well when on the floor. Its a good mix that really maximizes the impacts of West's strengths.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    If I ranked Pacers PFs, all-time for all-around play, it would be
    1. McGinnis
    2. West
    3. O'Neal
    4. D. Davis
    5. H. Williams

    If I ranked them offensively, I would switch Herb and Dale at 4/5, or probably even sneak in Antonio in front of Dale, although has been mentioned Dale was the PERFECT complement to Smits, and really each of the other 4 members of the starting lineup, on BOTH ends of the floor.

    If I were ranking our forwards at the defensive end of the floor, it would be
    1. D. Davis
    2. O'Neal
    3. McGinnis
    4. West
    5. A. Davis

    I can't really rank Williams up there, because like Darnell Hillman, he was a heck of a shot blocker from the weak side, but not necessarily a great defender on the ball. Most would not rate George that high, but I loved the way he sometimes abused opponents Artest-style in an era that allowed much greater use of the hands and body on defense. McGinnis was a physically punishing player, on both sides of the ball.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    That just goes to show you can't have an all-time best Pacers power forward conversation without including Troy Murphy.

  29. #21
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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    That just goes to show you can't have an all-time best Pacers power forward conversation without including Troy Murphy.

    Name that Pacers PF:

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    I think JO's year was better. He was not only putting up 20 ppg, but he was a defensive monster that season too.

    However, in regards to D2 vs. DWest. I'd have to go DWest. He's a better all around player. I like enforcers as much as the next guy, but DWest can at least be a solid defender. Dale Davis was pretty abysmal offensively. I'm not saying he'd be a better fit next to Smits, but West is a better basketball player.

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    David West might not be the enforcer or defender that Dale Davis is but at least he is not a liability on defense like Dale was on the offensive side of the floor. David West routinely gets other PFs in foul trouble which certainly helps on the defensive end. I also don't see a lot of player taking the ball inside on him either so he tends to do a very effective job on the defensive end.

    Offensively Dale was a liability at times because of his inability to dribble or score outside of 3 feet. He also couldn't hit more than 56% of his FTs for his career so you couldn't leave him on the floor on offense during the final seconds of a close game.
    This. If I remember correctly, back in the 2000 Finals, the Lakers sort of pulled a hack-a-Dale on us quite a bit. All those missed free throws had me pulling my hair. But I do love Dale's presence on the court. He was a beast on the defensive end

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Name that Pacers PF:

    West-Murphy-O'Neal(maybe Hans)?

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    Default Re: David West's season vs. All-time (NBA) Pacers power forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Offensively Dale was a liability at times because of his inability to dribble or score outside of 3 feet. He also couldn't hit more than 56% of his FTs for his career so you couldn't leave him on the floor on offense during the final seconds of a close game.
    IMO was an offensive liability only in the last couple minutes of a game or in the final few seconds of the shot clock. The reason I say this is because I always viewed Dale as a facilitator much like I view a PG as being a facilitator. It's just that some do the scoring, some do the passing and others do the dirty work. We had several capable scoters, so it was fortunate that guys like DD and Foster did not have to score to be major contributors on offense.

    So what did they do. Both, especially DD set jaw-jarring picks that got our wings wide open looks at the basket. And they, especially Foster, earned extra possessions for the Pacers by fighting for offensive rebounds.

    As much as I hated Rodman, the persona, I loved Rodman the player. Because he was an exceptional offensive player... It's just that he did not score. He was probably among the best ever at springing his teammates loose for shots and in keeping the ball alive off the boards on the offensive end.

    We shouldnt necessarily downgrade players just because they cannot score. It all depends on the makeup of the team and the importance of the offensive role that they played in enabling their teams to win.

    In my book, players like DD, Foster and even Rodman were just as important as the guys that put the ball in the basket because the offenses of their teams were greatly facilitated by their talents.

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