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Thread: White Smoke

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    One of the things I guess he did that caused a stir is he gave up his big, fairly lavish Cardinal residence and moved into a very small apartment. He seems to live and act his beliefs that doing is more important than talking which kind of harkens back to JP2
    Not a Catholic but if I remember right, part of the credo of St Francis and the order was to shun worldly possessions and embrace poverty. Seems like this is part of his philosophy as well, so the name he took might be quite fitting.



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  2. #27
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Behind all this feel good pomp and circus, this is a religion in where they keep the corpse of a priest dressed and adorned in a glass enclosure; where the Pope himself carries around the 1000 year old skull of a Saint adorned with jewels every year to honor the church he was murdered in; where they have entire cathedrals adorned wall to wall with skulls and bones, chandeliers made of skulls and bones. Where the heads of Saints are severed and placed in little ornate display cases and shipped around the world for the all Catholics to bow, kiss and "venerate".

    Its all just a little much for me.

    Raise your hand if you ever kissed the box of a severed head. I'd be interested to know why you did it

    There was a time in our worlds history when a severed head was sent around the land as a demonstration of power and intimidation....
    If we start listing all the weird things different religions do, it's going to be a looooong thread....

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  4. #28
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Behind all this feel good pomp and circus, this is a religion in where they keep the corpse of a priest dressed and adorned in a glass enclosure; where the Pope himself carries around the 1000 year old skull of a Saint adorned with jewels every year to honor the church he was murdered in; where they have entire cathedrals adorned wall to wall with skulls and bones, chandeliers made of skulls and bones. Where the heads of Saints are severed and placed in little ornate display cases and shipped around the world for the all Catholics to bow, kiss and "venerate".

    Its all just a little much for me.

    Raise your hand if you ever kissed the box of a severed head. I'd be interested to know why you did it

    There was a time in our worlds history when a severed head was sent around the land as a demonstration of power and intimidation....
    I'm not religious and am certainly not Catholic but this is one of the most pompous and self righteous postings I've seen in awhile. Bravo.
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  6. #29
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Behind all this feel good pomp and circus, this is a religion in where they keep the corpse of a priest dressed and adorned in a glass enclosure; where the Pope himself carries around the 1000 year old skull of a Saint adorned with jewels every year to honor the church he was murdered in; where they have entire cathedrals adorned wall to wall with skulls and bones, chandeliers made of skulls and bones. Where the heads of Saints are severed and placed in little ornate display cases and shipped around the world for the all Catholics to bow, kiss and "venerate".

    Its all just a little much for me.

    Raise your hand if you ever kissed the box of a severed head. I'd be interested to know why you did it

    There was a time in our worlds history when a severed head was sent around the land as a demonstration of power and intimidation....
    I thought this was all bs and then I went to google and found out that all this is true, thanks for giving more ammo to give my girlfriend more crap about her religion

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Behind all this feel good pomp and circus, this is a religion in where they keep the corpse of a priest dressed and adorned in a glass enclosure; where the Pope himself carries around the 1000 year old skull of a Saint adorned with jewels every year to honor the church he was murdered in; where they have entire cathedrals adorned wall to wall with skulls and bones, chandeliers made of skulls and bones. Where the heads of Saints are severed and placed in little ornate display cases and shipped around the world for the all Catholics to bow, kiss and "venerate".

    Its all just a little much for me.

    Raise your hand if you ever kissed the box of a severed head. I'd be interested to know why you did it

    There was a time in our worlds history when a severed head was sent around the land as a demonstration of power and intimidation....
    WHAT'S IN THE BOX????

    Typically the Saints are killed by someone else or die of natural causes, often their body resisting the process of decomposing is a sign of them being a saint in the first place. I know not everyone gets it and I would probably never kiss a box with a head in it, but some of the mysticism behind every religion is what makes it a religion in the first place.

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  9. #31
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I thought this was all bs and then I went to google and found out that all this is true, thanks for giving more ammo to give my girlfriend more crap about her religion
    You don't want to screw around with Catholic magic man.

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Out of all the things to take issue with in organized religion, especially the Catholic church, a head in a box is pretty low on the list.

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You don't want to screw around with Catholic magic man.
    Yeah I don't believe in religions so I'm ok with that

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I'm not religious and am certainly not Catholic but this is one of the most pompous and self righteous postings I've seen in awhile. Bravo.

    I just posted the true anecdotes about the religion that most people have no clue about. People shouldn't be mocked for telling the truth.

    An interesting juxtapose to consider, back when the scientists and great minds like Leonardo Da Vinci where sneaking around doing autopsies behind the Church's back as it was considered the practice of a Heretic, the Church was desecrating its dead and putting their heads into glass boxes, cutting out hearts, and adorning their Cathedrals with Bones.

    I do have a curiosity about the subject, as I find it very interesting how over a billion people came to this religion even though for 100's of years the average person could not even understand the Language of the religion, that just seems beyond intuitive.
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I just posted the true anecdotes about the religion that most people have no clue about. People shouldn't be mocked for telling the truth.
    I thought you were pretty clearly mocking the entire religion by "telling the truth".

    Honestly, my religious beliefs probably align pretty closely with yours. But little infuriates me quite as much as when people try to push their beliefs on others. Of course, that should also apply to those who try to push their lack of beliefs on others.

    Every religion does stupid ****. Catholicism included. Lord knows I've made plenty of jokes with my Catholic friends, usually in bad taste, about it. But being an atheist or agnostic doesn't make you (or I) better than anybody who chooses to believe.
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  17. #36
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Yeah, I am not a very religious person. I am Catholic by name and in the rare event that I do attend a church service. My interest in Catholicism is family related and I find the history of the church fascinating. Oh, and graphic er, the picture you are painting of bones and relics and Catholics brutally ripping bodies apart is not commonplace in 99% of the Catholic world. They do have their relics in the form of body parts (more like pieces--they are tiny most of the time), but they all stem from the early days of a very old church. Like others have said, Catholics have their issues, and I think the bones/relics aspect is one of the more curious things to single out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I thought you were pretty clearly mocking the entire religion by "telling the truth".

    Honestly, my religious beliefs probably align pretty closely with yours. But little infuriates me quite as much as when people try to push their beliefs on others. Of course, that should also apply to those who try to push their lack of beliefs on others.

    Every religion does stupid ****. Catholicism included. Lord knows I've made plenty of jokes with my Catholic friends, usually in bad taste, about it. But being an atheist or agnostic doesn't make you (or I) better than anybody who chooses to believe.
    I don't think I pushed my views onto anyone. I never said anything eluding to my superior standing over people , you might be projecting your frustrations just based on the idea that I posted some of the absurd traditions of the religion. Its okay to point out the absurd for what it is! I'm not saying people are wrong or dumb for believing in whatever they find value in.

    But regardless, I get a chuckle when I think about the all the admiration and cheer this New Pope has received, and all the talk about what his impact will be, and how millions of people around the world are putting their hope into him, then you realize that next month he is gonna be carrying around town a decomposed skull on a pillow, or inspecting the adornments of a mummified saint in preparation for Easter.
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    But regardless, I get a chuckle when I think about the all the admiration and cheer this New Pope has received, and all the talk about what his impact will be, and how millions of people around the world are putting their hope into him, then you realize that next month he is gonna be carrying around town a decomposed skull on a pillow, or inspecting the adornments of a mummified saint in preparation for Easter.
    Saying stuff like that is exactly what he was talking about. This came off as very condescending, like you think you are above all that and the 1.2 billion Catholics in the world.

  20. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Out of all the things to take issue with in organized religion, especially the Catholic church, a head in a box is pretty low on the list.
    That does sound ****ed up, though. I'd never realized that. JMO

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I don't think I pushed my views onto anyone. I never said anything eluding to my superior standing over people , you might be projecting your frustrations just based on the idea that I posted some of the absurd traditions of the religion. Its okay to point out the absurd for what it is! I'm not saying people are wrong or dumb for believing in whatever they find value in.

    But regardless, I get a chuckle when I think about the all the admiration and cheer this New Pope has received, and all the talk about what his impact will be, and how millions of people around the world are putting their hope into him, then you realize that next month he is gonna be carrying around town a decomposed skull on a pillow, or inspecting the adornments of a mummified saint in preparation for Easter.
    Yep, focus on a minor ritual he has to perform over the impact he could potentially have on hundreds of millions of under privileged people around the world. That is the logical way to approach it. Also, you have the ritual wrong as far as I know, I am aware of the tradition of parading a saint's skull around in France, but the Pope is not involved with that. Also, Catholics are far from the only religion to do this sort of thing. Buddhists do this with what is believed to be a piece of the Buddha's skull as well. Venerating a holy relic is not something unique to Catholics at all, but is something that is found in all of the world's religions.

    And as you may get a chuckle out of our (Catholics') and other religions' "absurd" traditions, I get a chuckle out of the fact that you are choosing to focus on a bloody skull over the lives he could affect positively. Certainly says something about your outlook on the world.

    Also, calling a church's tradition "absurd" is in and of itself an inflammatory comment, but I'll just leave that one alone because I honestly don't care that much.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-15-2013 at 01:44 PM.

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    But regardless, I get a chuckle when I think about the all the admiration and cheer this New Pope has received, and all the talk about what his impact will be, and how millions of people around the world are putting their hope into him, then you realize that next month he is gonna be carrying around town a decomposed skull on a pillow, or inspecting the adornments of a mummified saint in preparation for Easter.
    So a decomposed skull on a pillow makes people incapable of implimenting change? Unless that's what you're saying, there's no reason to connect the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So a decomposed skull on a pillow makes people incapable of implimenting change? Unless that's what you're saying, there's no reason to connect the two.
    its called a juxtaposition.
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    So you think whether or not there's a decomposed skull in a box has bearing on whether or not someone can impliment change. Okay.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Yep, focus on a minor ritual he has to perform over the impact he could potentially have on hundreds of millions of under privileged people around the world. That is the logical way to approach it. Also, you have the ritual wrong as far as I know, I am aware of the tradition of parading a saint's skull around in France, but the Pope is not involved with that. Also, Catholics are far from the only religion to do this sort of thing. Buddhists do this with what is believed to be a piece of the Buddha's skull as well. Venerating a holy relic is not something unique to Catholics at all, but is something that is found in all of the world's religions.

    And as you may get a chuckle out of our (Catholics') and other religions' "absurd" traditions, I get a chuckle out of the fact that you are choosing to focus on a bloody skull over the lives he could affect positively. Certainly says something about your outlook on the world.

    Also, calling a church's tradition "absurd" is in and of itself an inflammatory comment, but I'll just leave that one alone because I honestly don't care that much.
    The pope, cardinals, priests. They all are involved in these type of rituals. The church leaders perpetuate these things.

    As far as impacting lives, I will grant you this new Popes backstory sounds impressive, but I will find it hard to believe that he will have any sort of huge impact on the poor from behind the castled walls of the theocratic city-state.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 03-18-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    What is a decomposed skull? Dust?
    As for "relics" as they are called, most are tiny chips imbedded in the alter of a church and few have ever seen them, they may even be a wood chip rather than bone. From your original description I would have expected bones hanging from the rafters. So I would like to know more about these cathedrals that are adorned with bones from wall to wall etc. Where are they and how are they currently used?

    We have a real skull used by my wife's grandfather who was a Doctor. Is this "absurd" too?
    Last edited by indygeezer; 03-19-2013 at 02:11 PM.
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    What is a decomposed skull? Dust?
    As for "relics" as they are called, most are tiny chips imbedded in the alter of a church and few have ever seen them, they may even be a wood chip rather than bone. From your original description I would have expected bones hanging from the rafters. So I would like to know more about these cathedrals that are adorned with bones from wall to wall etc. Where are they and how are they currently used?

    We have a real skull used by my wife's grandfather who was a Doctor. Is this "absurd" too?
    Geezer there are Cathedrals that have bones all over the place. I have seen them with my own eyes in Ukraine and southern Germany. I have no idea what their actual purpose is. I will say it doesn't affect my somewhat sympathetic view of the Catholic church at all. Why is it a big deal?

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    slide show on the bone churches of Europe.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bootsn...apuchin_Crypt_

    While I guess most if not all are Catholic, this doesn't strike me as as being a "Catholic thing". Westminster Abbey in London, after all, is famous for its many tombs.

    Some of this tardition comes, I think, from a tradition where honoring the dead by displaying their bones wasn't really considered all that creepy, though it sure seems creepy to us now.
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    Default Re: White Smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    What is a decomposed skull? Dust?
    As for "relics" as they are called, most are tiny chips imbedded in the alter of a church and few have ever seen them, they may even be a wood chip rather than bone. From your original description I would have expected bones hanging from the rafters. So I would like to know more about these cathedrals that are adorned with bones from wall to wall etc. Where are they and how are they currently used?

    We have a real skull used by my wife's grandfather who was a Doctor. Is this "absurd" too?




    And this is one of the heads he was talking about.


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    Default Re: White Smoke

    The religious guidelines on PD make a lot more sense after seeing how this thread has taken shape.

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    Default Re: White Smoke

    From looking at the photos and reading the explanation, their existence seems logical. I thought from what you said they were used in some kind of weird cult ritual. But if there is no longer room for the remains to be buried in the cemetary, where better to place the remains than in a local chapel or Church? If they placed the bones in a mass grave or burned them or disposed of them in any other way, the Church would still be up for criticism by non-believers. This way the remains of people who desired to be buried there are still within the proximity of God's House.
    As for the skull, I know next to nothing about this but will certainly be looking into it.
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